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Started by Revival Sawmill, November 25, 2016, 02:20:20 PM

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Kbeitz

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Revival Sawmill

That calculator is giving back some very high numbers for the load on the system! I'll have to do some more research.  Looking at similarly sized/powered mills, they mostly use 3-4 belts.

york

Search,for the Browning pulley belt calculator....
Albert

Revival Sawmill

It's also looking like I'd have to adapt an automotive clutch to engage/disengage the 50 hp motor;  All the electric clutches I'm finding top out about 27 hp, and a centrifugal won't do it on an electric motor...  Anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks,

york

Cooks big 36 mill still uses a cam over belt tensioner,spelling..   
Albert

Revival Sawmill

Was sort of thinking about some sort of soft starter and just cutting the motor off between passes, but I'm worried that would still put excessive wear and tear on motor/generator.  Seems like the tensioner would eat belts?

Revival Sawmill

What about putting two of the 27 hp electric clutches on a common shaft that's coupled to he output shaft of the electric motor to spread the load?  I could wire them together so they engage at pretty much the same time?

ozarkgem

http://www.pittsdistribution.com/pittsclutch-h28.html
This is the clutch I have on my mill. It is still the original clutch from 1985. A 50 hp motor @ 1750 rpm has 150 ft lbs of torque. Mine is rated for 200-300 ft lbs. The drawback is they are pricey.  I would do the cam over or make a slide to move the motor and tighten the belts. I wouldn't worry about disengaging it between cuts.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ozarkgem

Quote from: Kbeitz on November 27, 2016, 08:49:43 AM

Pulley and Belt Calculator



http://www.gizmology.net/pulleysbelts.htm
Gives lots of numbers but doesn't say how many or what size belts unless I am not using it right.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Revival Sawmill

Quote from: ozarkgem on November 27, 2016, 04:38:38 PM
http://www.pittsdistribution.com/pittsclutch-h28.html
This is the clutch I have on my mill. It is still the original clutch from 1985. A 50 hp motor @ 1750 rpm has 150 ft lbs of torque. Mine is rated for 200-300 ft lbs. The drawback is they are pricey.  I would do the cam over or make a slide to move the motor and tighten the belts. I wouldn't worry about disengaging it between cuts.
No joke those are pricey!!🤑
Those 27hp versions are only a couple of $180-200- I might try doubling up on those before I go to the $1500 option! 😜😉
Do these methods that loosen the belts to disengage not do constant damage to the belts?  How do you ensure you get enough tension on them when you re-engage?
Thanks,

Revival Sawmill

Quote from: ozarkgem on November 27, 2016, 04:42:45 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on November 27, 2016, 08:49:43 AM

Pulley and Belt Calculator



http://www.gizmology.net/pulleysbelts.htm
Gives lots of numbers but doesn't say how many or what size belts unless I am not using it right.

I couldn't get any of those calculators to give me a 'number of belts' recommendation.  But the few I tried out were giving similar numbers for the force applied to the shafts/bearings. Which seemed very high to me!  I wonder how many pounds of force are loaded onto the shaft and main bearings when the blade is tensioned up?
Thanks,

ozarkgem

My plan is to start the electric motor with the belts loose and quickly tighten the belts so as no to let the belts rub against the pulley. You will have to build a belt tightener  with adjustable stops so it engages the belts at the same tension each time.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Don_Papenburg

On a belt tension system , the belts have a guide that holds the belt in a way that it just misses the pulley and also keeps it from sliding off the pulley .  Engagement is done slowly enough to not shock and fast enough to not smoke the belts.    Move the motor or an idler pulley with a leaver ,an electric actuator ,or a hydraulic cylinder with a restrictor in the engage line to get the proper speed.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Revival Sawmill

Ok, so that first motor won't work, now I'm looking at another, but it spins at 3700 rpm instead of 1765 rpm. Is that going to get me more power at the saw once I've slowed the rpms with the different sized pulleys? Or am I better off with another 1765 rpm motor that more closely matches the rpms I want at the drive wheel?
Thanks,

warren46

I have a Timber Harvester mill with a 40 HP electric.  It runs three v-belts and has more torque and power than I can ever use even sawing 30" plus wide in oak.  The belts are tensioned using an over center idler pulley.  I recently installed a three v belt that has a backing that makes the three belts act as one.  Works really well.

In my opinion based on the way a 40 HP electric works, 50 hp will be overkill unless you are using something like 6" bands.

Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

Revival Sawmill

That's good to hear! 50 hp looks like the biggest motor the generator we got could possibly start, and I was starting to worry it might be 'underkill' based on some of the comments 🙄

ozarkgem

Quote from: warren46 on December 07, 2016, 05:48:23 PM
I have a Timber Harvester mill with a 40 HP electric.  It runs three v-belts and has more torque and power than I can ever use even sawing 30" plus wide in oak.  The belts are tensioned using an over center idler pulley.  I recently installed a three v belt that has a backing that makes the three belts act as one.  Works really well.

In my opinion based on the way a 40 HP electric works, 50 hp will be overkill unless you are using something like 6" bands.
Warren
    What size blades do you run on the TH?   thanks  Jim
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

warren46


[/quote]
Warren
    What size blades do you run on the TH?   thanks  Jim
[/quote]

I run 1 1/2" .055 1" pitch 10 degree bands.  I can never detect any slowing of the motor.

Electric motors produce the full horsepower when loaded so the maximum torque is at the maximum horsepower point on the rpm curve.  On an internal combustion engine the maximum torque point is lower than the maximum horsepower so when an internal combustion engine is loaded to produce the maximum torque is is putting  out less than maximum horsepower.  An electric motor will deliver more power to the band at maximum load then an internal combustion engine with the same horsepower rating.
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

ozarkgem

I have a 20 hp electric on mine. Electric is the only way to go. I didn't know if you ran 1 1/2 or 2" bands.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

bandmiller2

Electric will punch far above its rating, it is ideal mill power, especially in an enclosed building. My band mill runs 1 1/2" bands along with a hydraulic pump on three phase 15hp. I have all the power I need. Be Leary of pacific rim electric motors, they won't put out like ours. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Wintergreen Mountain



I  have a TURNER band saw mill that I bought new without the gas engine from Bill Turner in up state NY.. I mounted a 17 GPM hydraulic gear motor on the mill head. the engine is a 51 HP VW diesel out of a VW rabbit. The pump is a 14GPM Vickers pressure compensated piston type. Two 1" hyd hoses, 60 ft long drag or sling between the power unit and the sawmill.


The mill disengages and the engine idles down with a key chain remote control that I took  off a wireless control winch.

I have sawed about 42000 B/F and it works better than I expected

Leon
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

47sawdust

Leon,
That is a great set-up.Nice job.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

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