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how do i read this hydraulic plate info

Started by DDW_OR, November 24, 2016, 05:38:42 PM

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DDW_OR

I am very GREEN when it comes to hydraulics

Multitek 1610EZ not working. was working, cut about 10 cords then the hydraulics started to slow down and then basically stopped, all in about 60 minutes.
changed hydraulic filter. used a filter cutter to open old filter, found no foreign particles inside. 
Live deck moves slowly, feed deck moves slowly, chainsaw does not, splitter ram does not, conveyor moves slowly.

drained all hydraulic Fluid. now looking for what fluid to use. so many to choose from.

engine on left side of photo.
so how do i read this plate info?

 

200102580202
AP200/15 D 880
9B 50154608
MADE IN ITALY
BUCHER HYDRAULICS

__________


"let the machines do the work"

landscraper

AP200 is the model #, it's a gear pump, the /15 is 15cc displacement, D means clockwise rotation, non-reversible.  I googled Bucher AP200/15 and came up with that.  The spec sheets I saw also said it is a 3 port pump, making between 2600-3300psi.      Looks like maybe a $250-$300 pump.

I have no personal knowledge of it otherwise, that's just what a quick search came up with.

Is there a system relief valve on the Multitek that can be tested or adjusted?  Does your processor have pressure gauges for the various circuits, and maybe the manual tells you what normal operating pressures should be?  Slow/feeble performance can be a failing pump, but it could also be a weak relief valve that is allowing flow to bypass back to the reservoir rather than "working".


Firewood is energy independence on a personal scale.

Hilltop366

Is it possible the pump drive is slipping?   

wndwlkr65

Like hilltop said, I would look for a sheared key on the pump shaft.

blackfoot griz

Quote from: wndwlkr65 on November 24, 2016, 08:12:56 PM
Like hilltop said, I would look for a sheared key on the pump shaft.


That is what I was thinking as well. A new chunk of key stock would be an easy fix.

DDW_OR

Quote from: landscraper on November 24, 2016, 07:19:27 PM
....Is there a system relief valve on the Multitek that can be tested or adjusted? 
....Does your processor have pressure gauges for the various circuits, and maybe the manual tells you what normal operating pressures should be? 

Slow/feeble performance can be a failing pump, but it could also be a weak relief valve that is allowing flow to bypass back to the reservoir rather than "working".

system relief valve = ??
pressure gauges = No
manual = none

as i stated, i am VERY Green.

Wish it was an electrical problem. I have an AA degree from Devry and 17 years of component level repair and failure analysis

tomorrow i am loading our dump trailer with Madrona logs. then around noon the sales rep for the Central Boiler will be here to do the final install, and initial firing of the 750
"let the machines do the work"

blackfoot griz

Your machine is running a gear pump which should put out a constant flow proportionally to the engine rpm. From the outlet/pressure port, the flow should act a lot like an electrical current-- taking the path of least resistance.  If the pump is good, the flow is going somewhere.  Some more pictures would help. For starters, can you pull the pump and check the coupling? If you gradually sheared your key, for a dollar or so, you'really
back in business. If that isn't the problem, follow the flow downstream....where does it go next?

GAB

Are there any places in the hydraulic circuit where you could install a pressure gauge to test the system?
Based on what you have written, and not knowing this machine and its configuration I feel it could be a failed engine shaft, a failed key, a failed pump, a failed pump shaft, or a pressure relief valve problem such as a piece of trash (i.e. metal shaving) keeping it stuck open.
Sure would appreciate hearing from you in the future informing us of the actual problem(s).
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

DDW_OR

Video of how it should work.
controls are the same as mine,

this is not me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSjQfpN0j1c
"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

no - failed engine shaft
no - failed key
no - failed pump shaft

?? - pressure relief valve problem
?? - failed pump



 
Photo above - Left to right, return, return from saw, line to pump


 
Photo above - Left to right, speed adjustment, live deck, output conveyor


 
Photo above - backside of speed adjust


 
Photo above - top -down, live deck, conveyor, splitter, splitter wedge, log clamp, log feed.


 
Photo above - engine shaft, cannot spin by hand


  
Photo above - pump shaft, can spin by hand, I have drained hydraulic fluid


  
Photo above - pump shaft


 
Photo above - new filter on return line to reservoir
fluid flow is left to right
thinking of adding a shutoff valve between filter and reservoir
"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

 

 

is the "nut" to the left of each valve block the pressure relief valve
"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

Took the pump to Phoenix Hydraulics, they opened it, inspected, and re-assembled. concluded no problem with pump and that the pump was basically new.

the lines with arrows on both ends represent two lines to that hydraulic part.
the return line for the saw goes strait back to the tank, NO FILTER


 
"let the machines do the work"

North River Energy

If I'm not mistaken, the flow control involves a simple priority valve. Bypass that component, and see if your main (splitter, saw, etc) functions come back.

Rural

"is the "nut" to the left of each valve block the pressure relief valve"
Sure looks like it to me, if one is stuck open it would produce the symptoms you have described. As others have said inserting a tee in the output line with a hydraulic gauge would tell you what is going on. With pump running but nothing in use the gauge should read the relief pressure, operating each component may drop the pressure slightly if it drops substantially or does not reach relief pressure then oil is returning to tank via one or more relief valves without restriction.
Afterthought.... depending upon the set up the system may circulate directly to tank unless a valve is operated, in this case there will be minimal pressure in the system unless something is being operated.

DDW_OR

 

 

If i understand correctly i should inserting a tee in the output line with a hydraulic gauge.
should i install two gauges, one at 2a and a second at 2b ?
where the hydraulic line connects to each of the the elbows.

will be working on the Multitek today. have to re-install the pump, and add all of the fluid.
"let the machines do the work"


Rural

Any hydraulic gauge that is good for the output pressure of the pump would be fine, I would initially put it in the line from the pump to the flow control, you may later try putting it in the output lines from the flow control (if that is possible and not directly coupled to the control valves). I also note that depending upon the type of flow control that item may also return excess flow to tank and if faulty also be causing your problems as previous poster suggested.
There is much information on fluid power available on line, understanding how the various components work is very helpful in trouble shooting problems check out http://hydraulicspneumatics.com/fluid-power-basics

DDW_OR

flow control


 
only has 3 hoses, one in from pump, and one to each of the valve banks.

as of now i have no pressure gauge on the property.
"let the machines do the work"

Hilltop366

Pump suction line? Sometime the line can separate and collapse on the inside and restrict oil flow.

Have you tried calling the manufacture and/or dealer to ask for advice?

DDW_OR

Pump suction line? = good, no blockage

calling the manufacture = no i have not. got it used as-is

am now draining the hydraulic tank. drain plug on bottom will not come out.
"let the machines do the work"

North River Energy

You don't need gauges at this point, just a line coupler and cap. Tie the flow control input to the main valve bank input, and cap off the line to the secondary valve bank so the backfeed (if any) doesn't put a shine on your shoes.

Flow is being affected by something between the pump and valve banks. If you remove that element and functions return, you've found your problem.
Evaluating the line pressures will only tell you the extent of the problem you have already identified.

DDW_OR

as i stated at the beginning "I am very GREEN when it comes to hydraulics"

I GREATLY appreciate all of the help i am getting.

"eliminating sections", should have thought of that because that is what i did when repairing electronics for 17 years.
"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

Quote from: North River Energy on December 20, 2016, 01:27:02 PM
...Tie the flow control input to the main valve bank input, and cap off the line to the secondary valve bank so the backfeed (if any) doesn't put a shine on your shoes....

I assume you are referring to line "C" and then to line "D"
what should i do with the tee for lines L M N




  
"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

Fuel had water in it, ethanol  :(
Hydraulic had no water. refilled.
will be starting the engine and running the controls to see if problem is still there.
"let the machines do the work"

North River Energy

Connect B to C.
Cap D.
Then run the pump.
If E,H,I,J,K come back to life, shut it down, then Connect B to D and cap C.
Run it again.
If O,P work more or less as they should, then repair or replace your flow control. Odds are it has a chunk of packing jamming the works.


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