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What to buy?

Started by hillbilly, November 23, 2004, 06:58:45 PM

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hillbilly

              Looking to buy a new tractor for the farm and around the mill, killing two birds with one shot,hopefully ;D
Ive looked at masseys,kubotas,and a couple other makes but has anybody ever ran or used a kioti tractor? I'm kinduf leaning towards them a little not sure though ::)
            hillbilly      

Tom

My neighbor has a Kioti.  It's just a foreign made Massey but he's found that the parts don't swap.  It does a good job as long as it runs.  He worries that the dealer may quit providing tractors and parts.

I favor home-grown stuff.  New-Holland still supports Ford, John Deere isn't showing too many signs of going away and Kubota has been around long enough that you should feel pretty secure with them.  The Gray Market tractors like Mitsubishi might provide you with head-aches.

DanG

hillbilly, I have an IMT(Ignorant Man's Tractor) that is also a Massey knockoff. When something on it stops working, I have to just do without it.  I'm currently doing without hydraulics and BRAKES! :o  There are no parts to repair it.

I will NEVER buy another tractor that isn't supported by a strong, stable company.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Norm

I'd stick with name brands myself, Case-IH, New Holland, and John Deere all make good ones. They may cost a little more but you get it back in resale. Nice thing about JD is they are made in the USA.

sawguy21

Hmmm, tractor without brakes. Sounds like lots of fun.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

woodmills1

Hate to disagree but Kioti is kinda what kubota used to be.  It is not a kubota or a massey knock off or wanns be.  It is a korean tractor produced in whole by Daedong (spell?) a long time korean manufacturer.

By the way I have one.  1998 LK3054  numbers signify 30.5 horsepower and 4 wheel drive.  I bought it used from someone from farther north here in NH, with 350 hours on it.  It was assembled and prepared by Les Distributors Payeur from Sherbrook Canada as part of one of their Le Forester packages.  As far as I know Payeur has used Kioti's for these packages since they started selling them.  Modifications by Payeur include skid plates and other protections like around the filters and tire valves as well as a trasmission oil cooler.  Otherwise it is a stock tractor.

My tractor now has almost 900 hours on it with almost all of them being spun at 3500 RPM to use the log loader on the trailer, haul huge amounts of logs both out of the woods and over the road as well as push snow, pull a 6 foot brush hog and run the backhoe attachment I bought this summer for the loader arm.  Besides regular maintainence I have needed 3 repairs.

1.  Tachometer cable broke
2.  Seat cover was ripped when I got it, held water and rusted seat to point where it broke from attachment.  Welded it back together and bought new rubber bushings.
3. sector shaft in steering box broke.  In defense of kioti I thing the shaft was severly jarred when the previous owner bumped a log into the steering drag link, by the huge bend in the link when I got it.  Some 600 hours later shaft broke  with break showing evidence of long time rusting and 3 different break surfaces.  By the way shaft was in stock at Payeur though it cost $350.

My only complaint on my 3054 is floor pan is small so entry and exit needs to be a little careful with boots.  Kiotis newer models have the more open cab floor like other tractor makes.  

In short my tractor takes a licking and keeps on ticking.

www.payeur.com
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

GF

I have always been a green and yellow man from push mowers to tractors, I like to know that parts are available for my equipment locally. Just my two cents worth.  The extra money to me seems worth it.

According to the local JD dealer the 90 series John Deere 790, 990 etc are made in China, not sure how true that really is.  The 4000 ten series that are the equivilent horsepower are made in the USA.


bull

Go Kubota: I haven't Killed one yet and I beat the Snot out of them ! The only reason I have relaced a Kubota is because I required a larger Machine / Loader....  1st was an L 195
1979 Kubota 4WD Skid plate and push blade was a great little machine for lot clearing " no loader ".
2nd was an L 2550GST 1987 Kubota 4WD w/ loader and cab
excellent woods machine Kick some real Butt in the woods
Sold to a friend and still working "landscaping&wood lot !!
3rd and present L 4610 HST 2000 Kubota 4WD w/loader Great yard machine for millyard and mulch handling not as good in the woods but not Terrible... GST = Glide shift transmission,fix speed shift on the fly ! HST = hydrastatic
transmission... varible speed stop to change range H/M/L
not as good for skidding in varible terrain or Ice and Mud.

My biggest need was lift compacity so I keep getting a larger machine...  Next year I will be getting a larger Kubota but I thing I will be keeping the 4610.... if I can prove the need for 2 machines to the Boss *(Mrs)*.
also the new machine will have a cab.. the 4610 doesn't have a cab and its not fun plowing snow w/out a cab...
 GOOD LUCK!!



OneWithWood

I have owned both Kubota and John Deere tractors.  I worked both machines hard and could not kill either one.  When I buy another it will be a Deere.  Mostly because the JD dealer is easier to work with and the machines are American made.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Timber_Framer

In another lifetime I ran a landscape crew and one of the knuckelheads put gas in the Kubota and went back to mowing the field. Then when it got hot he drove it into the lake to cool it off!
We drained the gas added new diesel and when I left the company some months later it was still running fine six days a week!
Tuff little tractor.
"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles."

duke401

all that i can say is if they keep building bombs, bush might stop imports. then what no parts.
duke

VA-Sawyer

I've been told that a number of JD's are made in Japan. I think they also have assembly plants in Mexico and South America.  Not sure if any of those are shipped to USA. I do know that they are not pure American made anymore. The 1250 I use has a diesel engine from Japan, and a lot of metric fasteners. Transmission has asian markings as well.  It kinda bums me out, but what is a fellow to do. Is any tractor truley American made anymore ?  :(
VA-Sawyer

hillbilly

                 So far all of the big brands that i've talked to siad that most and i dont know how much most means or stands for of the smaller and newer tractors where made over seas JD ,NH,MF,IHcase,Kubota the big MF are built in Brazil the two massey dealers that I checked at siadthat they were having prob getting tractors at this time.
 I try to support our country when we buy most of our stuff BUT I don't think that you are going to find much that is still made in USA sad huh.  

beenthere

Deere tractors are not all American-made, I suspect because many Deere are not 'just' sold in America. Without numbers, and some good facts, saying "most" can be very misleading.

I am aware of several large Deere tractor plants, including Waterloo, IA, and Augusta, GA and Horicon, WI.  Just these three operations turn out what I would consider "most" of the tractors Deere sells, but as for actual facts, I don't have them.
True, there are lot's of parts made overseas (to sell there, you must do more for their economy and buy something too) and shipped here to be assembled here.
I am disappointed that everything Deere sells isn't "USA made" but that doesn't fit in todays' world-wide economy. But its "the most" American-made and stable American company we have right now making tractors. I find the ones I have well made and worth the money. But there are many other brands that are likely "worth the money" too.
Just my thoughts to add to an interesting topic (but one with no clear answers   :)  ).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

DanG

I'm not sure where any of the big brands are made anymore. ???  At one time, JDs were made in France, Fords in Holland, and MFs in England. I think the manufacturing location matters less than the dealer network. The quality of the local dealer is probably the most important factor of all.  When Tom & I were walking around at the Expo in Moultrie last month, we were commenting on how many brands of tractors there were that we had never heard of.

My IMT is a 1984 model, not that old for a tractor, but the company doesn't exist any more. Not only that, but the country it was made in, Yugoslavia, doesn't exist any more either. :-/  It is an excellent tractor, but things break. What does a fella do when parts aren't available?  I'm not saying that Kioti will turn out that way, but I'll be sticking to the major brands in the future.

On the other hand, I got the latest issue of "Farm Show" in the mail yesterday. They have a section called, "Best Buy, Worst Buy" where folks either brag or whine about things they have. One fella has the same Kioti/Metavic package that Woodmills1 has. He listed it in the Best Buy category. :)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

ScottAR

There isn't a tractor under 100hp built in the states anymore.  Contrary to what anyone's marketing machine says.  

All that said, my "Yan deere" has never had any major engine, trans, or diff work and I would buy another in a split second.  
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

customsawyer

I use my tractors very hard to plant pines in the log woods they take a real beating.
1st tractor was a 383 massey very nice little tractor just 2wd but had very good service out of it bought it used for $13,800.00, beat the snot out of it for 5 years and sold it for $8500.00. Had no major mechanical problems, very good on fuel something to think about now days.
2nd tractor was NH7810 4wd put belly pan on and 20.8-38 dual tires on the rear and 18.4-26 tires on the front this thing would go through some mud lots of times I would be draging steps in the mud and planting trees out the back no major break downs used a little more fuel than the massey but was alot more tractor well worth it.
3rd tractor was a NH7610 4wd with loader put tires and belly pan same as 7810 did the same work with both still use the 7610 and loader with my mill getting a little tired now as has over 4000 hours on it but still runs good. No major repairs. Only grippe is that you have to push down on the clutch instead of forward and it will get to your left leg and knee running the loader all day with the sawmill.
4th tractor was a JD6405 skid plates and tires same as NH tractors very good machine alot more operator friendly than all the other tractors no where near as much wear on you as the driver, uses a little more fuel than the NH but worth it for not being as tired at the end of the day a few more repairs than the NH but I don't think they were all the tractors fault. Had to replace the bearings and seals in the rear axel last Feb. thought I would save some money and do it myself didn't know you had to pre load the bearings when puting it back together ended up braking both rear axels and one axel housing, almost $8000.00 later got it running right again, that was parts and labor through JD dealer. Only complaint is that I feel like the parts are higher for JD than the others, but I would rather drive it than any of the others so it gets more use than my 7610 does.
If I had to buy a new tractor today I would more than likely get a JD. If it was going to have the loader on it for the mill I would up grade the tran. so that you have the lever on the left of the steering wheel for forward and backward. I have looked very hard at the Kabota, love the engine on my mill, but the Kabota tractors are alot lighter wieght wise than the JD or NH for the same size tractors. I don't know where they take the wieght off from and don't know if it matters other than when you are pulling heavy load (the wieght helps with the traction).
That is my 2 cents worth, hope it helps.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

customsawyer

I use my tractors very hard to plant pines in the log woods they take a real beating.
1st tractor was a 383 massey very nice little tractor just 2wd but had very good service out of it bought it used for $13,800.00, beat the snot out of it for 5 years and sold it for $8500.00. Had no major mechanical problems, very good on fuel something to think about now days.
2nd tractor was NH7810 4wd put belly pan on and 20.8-38 dual tires on the rear and 18.4-26 tires on the front this thing would go through some mud lots of times I would be draging steps in the mud and planting trees out the back no major break downs used a little more fuel than the massey but was alot more tractor well worth it.
3rd tractor was a NH7610 4wd with loader put tires and belly pan same as 7810 did the same work with both still use the 7610 and loader with my mill getting a little tired now as has over 4000 hours on it but still runs good. No major repairs. Only grippe is that you have to push down on the clutch instead of forward and it will get to your left leg and knee running the loader all day with the sawmill.
4th tractor was a JD6405 skid plates and tires same as NH tractors very good machine alot more operator friendly than all the other tractors no where near as much wear on you as the driver, uses a little more fuel than the NH but worth it for not being as tired at the end of the day a few more repairs than the NH but I don't think they were all the tractors fault. Had to replace the bearings and seals in the rear axel last Feb. thought I would save some money and do it myself didn't know you had to pre load the bearings when puting it back together ended up braking both rear axels and one axel housing, almost $8000.00 later got it running right again, that was parts and labor through JD dealer. Only complaint is that I feel like the parts are higher for JD than the others, but I would rather drive it than any of the others so it gets more use than my 7610 does.
If I had to buy a new tractor today I would more than likely get a JD. If it was going to have the loader on it for the mill I would up grade the tran. so that you have the lever on the left of the steering wheel for forward and backward. I have looked very hard at the Kabota, love the engine on my mill, but the Kabota tractors are alot lighter wieght wise than the JD or NH for the same size tractors. I don't know where they take the wieght off from and don't know if it matters other than when you are pulling heavy load (the wieght helps with the traction).
That is my 2 cents worth, hope it helps.
My JD was made in Germany I don't know where the NH or Massey were made. We have a plant right here in Dublin, Ga. that makes the small NH tractors, I think they are mostly in the 50 hp range and smaller.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Timber_Framer

In this current global economy it's going to be hard finding anything that is truly American made like it was in days gone by. Even Harley Davidson who has been a bastion of Americana for a century has been using Japanese ignitions for nearly twenty years now, and it's unlikely to change. It will likely slow down slightly when the Chinese finally start trading their currency, but not much.  
"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles."

rebocardo

I know in Maine where I have property you can rent different makes and models of tractors from $50-$150+ (for the big front end loaders like Hough and Kubota) a day. Plus, they drop them off so no trailering is needed, which can be a problem with a 20 ton Hough  :o

It might be worthwhile to rent your final choice for a week and see how you like using it and what will break on your rental before throwing down $10k+.

Using the same approach with Enterprise rental cars before plopping down $30-$40k on a car or truck works too :-)  

You can find some things in cars just plain annoying after a while that makes you skip that model altogether. Such as one cheap bouncy cup holder in the new Impalas in the middle of the dash where you can not reach it. Or the impossible to see corners on the new Dodge trucks.

Since you may spend a lot of time bouncing in the seat of the tractor, a week long test drive might be nice.




jgoodhart

It's true that buying somthing USA made will still have over seas parts here and there. I buy John Deere just because the parts stay available almost forever. For the lawn I have a JD F935 Deisel and a 265 gas and both have Jap engines, toy mowers are a 110 and a 216 the 110 is a 1966 and if I need a part the local dealer has it on the shelf most of the time or in 3 days or less I have what I need. The work horse here is a 1980 JD  2040 MFD with loader made in Germany, never had any repairs ( yet ) just change oil and filters and it has over 6000 hrs on it now. My bigger toys are a JD B,40T, 40W and 70D and if anything is needed theJD dealer can still fix me up and all are over 50 years old but salvage yards are alot cheaper. The exception is the pony motor on the 70D parts are getting far and few between but when Deere stopped making them after market folks started so still no worry. I did have a Case IH here at one time and had problems with it  twice and it only had 1000 hrs on when it found a new home but buying parts to fix it took weeks and rebuild kits for stuff were not available so they forced you to buy the whole part, big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. If I couldn't aford a new JD I would buy a used one before I purchased another brand.

beenthere

ScottAR
You stated ""There isn't a tractor under 100hp built in the states anymore.  ""    ???

I'm not sure what you meant to say, but I have been to Deere's Augusta, GA tractor plant, where assembly of about 30,000 of the 4000 series and I don't know how many of the 5000 series tractors are built each year since about 1999.

Presently the new series of the 35-50 hp tractors (4x20 series) with Deere diesel engines are being marketed (from Augusta plant) and expecting a 3x20 series of the 25-40 hp tractors to hit the market (numbers may not be exact).  

Either I need to figure out what was happening (and what I was seeing) when I was in the August, GA plant a few years ago, or try to keep this thread from straying too far afield.  :)

Deere has a huge engine plant in Waterloo, IA for engines to power many of their tractors. They are opting for their own power plants in the smaller tractors, exchanging out the 3cyl Yanmar diesels (operate at high rpm) with their own 4cyl diesel that operates at a slower rpm (in the 25-50 hp range).

Maybe you meant something else   ???
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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