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Outsourcing jobs

Started by Engineer, November 23, 2004, 03:13:12 PM

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Engineer

A few different threads, in conjunction with the latest poll, have go me thinkin' (yep, it's dangerous  ;D).

Ron mentioning the La-Z-Boy plant closing and going to China, many private industries running tech support out of India, the major tool manufacturers all merging and making all their parts (and in many cases, entire machines) in Asia.  A lot of this, to my uninformed mind, seems to be a result of Chinese currency being undervalued?  But anyway.

What is not going overseas is service jobs and most of what we, as participants on this forum, do for a living.  I can't imagine that we will be outsourcing forestry and logging to the Chinese, and I can't imagine my job (engineering and surveying) going overseas either.  But what is going, rapidly, is manufacturing and technology jobs.  Where is the workforce going who were formerly in those jobs?  They are heading to the retail sales market to sell all that crap that we import from China and India.  

What we need to reintroduce in the schools and colleges, and to hell with OSHA and liability issues, are the skilled trades.  There are 24 different excavating companies in my town, and they are all busy as can be, and they can't find help.  Most of them are two-and-three man operations.  You would think that in an area with a population of nearly 30,000 people, there would be more than 20 guys who could run a backhoe.  Nope.  I can't find a heating contractor to clean my furnace because all the plumbers are short on help.  So are the electricians.  So are the carpenters.  We need to get our skilled trades back.  My old highschool folded up its' woodworking and metal shop programs ten years ago, sold all the machines, and now there isn't one kid in fifty coming out of that school that even knows what a lathe is, or how it works; and if they do, it's because their daddy or grandpa has one.

This leads to an interesting concept - if we continue to lose skilled trades to age and retirement, and nobody's teaching this stuff:  At what point are we going to start importing manufactured homes?  Something that folds up and fits in a container and sells for $35,000?  It's gotten to the point where I'm ready to encourage my kids to become auto mechanics or plumbers because they make more money than I do.

 :(

Ron Wenrich

Service jobs are leaving the country.  Computer programming, customer service, even accounting are all being outsourced to India - an educated, English speaking country with cheap labor.  

Reader's Digest had a list of the fastest growing jobs for the next 10 years.  As expected, nursing was one of the top, largely due to an aging society.  Sadly, retail sales and janitors were in the top 5.  We're dumbing down our society.

Our local vo-tech has now done an about face on who gets taught those skills you talk about.  It used to be a place to teach those that had trouble with book learning to find a job in society.  The smart ones went on to college.  Now, the vo-tech is taking the smartest ones.  Reason:  the level of technology has gotten so high that those that have problems with book learning can't master the craft.

As for China and US forests, maybe they will use US wood in China, but my bets are they will be using Russian and Eastern European wood.  Much easier to haul stuff by rail than by boat.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Tom

Perhaps it is easier to haul by rail or boat easier. But I have heard the stories of the Japeneses manufacturing ships that operate off shore in the pacific.  If it is true, then the natural resources that we export aren't even making it to a foreign  shore.  Buy trees, ship to the ship, saw the lumber, dry it and send it back to the USA.  Why would there be any reason to complicate things with foreign ports when a ship is a city unto itself?  Japan, China, 500 miles offshore?  

Fact?  Fiction?

Ron Wenrich

I think that was an urban legend.  There has never been a ship found that produced the lumber.  Not even a picture.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Pete J

My two cents, for what it's worth.

20 years in Information Technology and my company outsources the work to IBM. I trained the Indian guy who took my job before they gave me an "atta boy" and a nice pat on the back as they showed me the door.

3 years of freelance computer work doing mostly stuff for the unions. Plumbers and Pipefitters Local, Metal Trades Council and Mechanical Contractors Association of Connecticut. Every one of them saying the same thing, tough to find steady work, things are in a constant slow down. Guys telling me their great grandfather was a plumber, their grandfather was a plumber, their father and uncles are plumbers but they want to quit to get into computers because that's where the money is. I didn't even try to explain the reality to them.

The grass is looking greener and greener until you switch lines of work and find out you're often in the exact same boat as before. Let's hope LogRite, the Sawmillers and all the other small businesses make a comeback. Big business just doesn't do it for me anymore.


ohsoloco

There was a Corning plant in between Pleasant Gap and State College, PA that just closed down not too long ago.  Years ago everyone wanted a job there because the pay was good and it was a secure job  ::)  There was an almost identical plant built in China (they manufacture picture tubes and such) where all of the old equipment from the PA plant was shipped.  There was an article in the paper about it right after the closing.  Most guys were making over $30K, and the guys in China are happy to be making less than $6K.  

Hey, I'm in the top 5   8)  :D

bighoss550

some of the largest trucking companies in the us do nothing but transport shipping containers to and from the ports.
there's just too much dependance on foreign labor and products. and there's such a tendency for poeple to not want to work it seems. i get mad on a daily basis that even the burger flipper at macdonalds cant do their job.

lazy is a key word here.

the big company in greenville pa (werners) is just about closed up. the jobs and equipment were moved to MEXICO. all the steel mills and factories are long gone, and the best paying job to my knowledge in a 50 mile radius is about 13 bucks an hour for an average college educated 25 yr old.

there was a restaurant that opened up about a year ago, and the owner recieved over 85 resume's mostly from girls that had PHD's and big degrees and the like but CANT find work in any other field than waitressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats bad

WoodSmith

Well there is no way for me to read this thread without putting in at least 10 bucks worth of my opinion.
I work for our local school district in an area that is predominantely rural. All of our schools have shut down the classes that would prepare kids for any kind of trade, woodshop, auto mechanics, metal shop, agriculture, everything is focused on MODERN TECHNOLOGY(You know being able to send email and power point presentations), don't get me wrong I work in the Technology Support Dept. and I believe that there is a place for modern technology, but what about people who don't want to work in computer/information technology, its a bunch o crap. And another thing, did any of ya'll here the Wal-Mart CEO on TV he made the statement that even though Wal-Mart imports well over 50% of its merchandise from China, he says that Wal-Mart is not part of the problem with outsourcing. Gee OK, we're just the dumb public we don't know any difference as long as we can buy cheap.No jobs but we can buy cheap crap from cheap companies. >:(
I heard one guy say:
"SMELLS LIKE REVOLUTION"


WoodSmith

What would happen if "We The People" had a nationwide boycott of some of these major companies, maybe they would listen to what we have to say.
I'm fed up


Brad_S.

Trouble is we're the choir preaching to each other!  Seems most people on this forum are hard working, salt of the earth types. Try to get a yuppie to boycott anything on a principles reason. ::) They're fine with it in theory, but if it should actually cause any sort of inconvenience to them, all bets are off.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

WoodSmith

Ya I know Brad, it felt good to vent though.
I'm trusting in the Lord, but it still gets your dander up.
Maybe we need to sing louder.

etat

A recent quote I ran across concerning the teaching of skills of a trade to todays youth.


 "95% would not use the skills and the other 5% would learn anyway."





Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

WH_Conley

cktate, sounds about right. I still hold my book as a Union Carpenter. About 90% percent of the younguns hear union scale is good and they can't be fired,so they won't work. BYE BYE. I have told more than one forman to get someone away from me that won't try, but give me an apprentice that wants to learn and I will try my best to teach him. I have had more than one man tell his buddies"There is the old man that taught me". To give an idea of how young they are I'm only 48
Bill

Arthur

Sorry for being in the Promotional Mode.

WhenI bought EcoSaw we looked hard at manufacturing in China.

This is due to the fact that their engineering is just as good there and the equipment that costs $1000's cost $100's in China.

I am now told by our steel suppliers that steel prices are due to go up another 40% next feb after going up 100% already this year.  This is due to a world shortage of steel.  Its all going to China.

If we took the China option we could sell the EcoSaw for half of what we do now and still make the same profits.

What I have chosen to do is distributed manufacturing where the components are made here in Australia but the bulk of the labour is local (ie Canada at D&L Double Cut, PNG, Zambia and shortly Fiji as well as Australia).

 ???Are you as the customer prepaired to pay the price of local employment or do you just want you equipment cheap ???

Arthur

Tom

China actually as sub contractors ripping timber outr of south america, Burma, Cambodia and a number of other asian countries.

If you search the internet for Chinese Forestry you will find lots of articles about the environmental damage they are doing.

Ianab

Strangly enough the NZ govt has actually clicked onto this lack of tradesmen thing and is actively promoting apprentiships for stuff like building and auto mechanics etc.
You are all correct that fault finding a Japanese car, or building a house from cad drawings isn't something for dummies. And good money can be made doing it.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

GF

Logrite, I hear ya.
   I have 20 years in IT also.   I deal with alot of tech support, saleman, etc alot of them do not speak fluent english.  It no longer bothers me to tell them to put someone on the phone that speaks fluent english.

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