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LT40H VS LT40SH Head Return Speed

Started by DGK, November 06, 2016, 10:57:46 AM

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DGK

Hello Everyone,

I am curious to know if anyone knows the specifications for the head return speed in feet per minute for the LT40H (2009 small covered electric motor) vs the larger external power feed motors found on the newer LT40 Super Hydraulics? I am adding the manual board return arm and plan on upgrading the power feed motor and wiring to the larger one and would ideally like a faster return speed.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Give Woodmizer a call would be my advice.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

DGK

Thanks, It is Sunday today. If it were Monday, I would. Was kind of hoping that there would be a member that may know the answer. :-)
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

MartyParsons

Hello,
Standard LT40 Feed Rate Return 200 ft/min    Forward 180 not sawing.

Super LT40. Return range from 180 ft/min to 220 ft/min. Stock is 215 ft/min  You can speed it up or slow it down with different pulleys and belts.

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

DGK

Thanks Marty, that is exactly the info that I was hoping to find out. :-)
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

ncsawyer

Very interesting.  I have a regular LT-40 and have often wondered how much difference there is in speed.  According to the numbers Marty gave, the regular 40 would return over 20 feet of track in 6 seconds and a super 40 in about 5.58 seconds. 

Doesn't seem like a big difference just looking at the numbers, but I am sure the super 40 "feels" considerably faster. 
2015 Wood-Mizer LT40DD35
Woodmaster 718 planer
Ford 445 Skip Loader

kenbees

I have a lt40 supper and u   have to stand out  of the way  on the return or it  will run u over.
Lets make some saw dust

Chuck White

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, kenbees!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Bandmill Bandit

I did this change to my mill and i dont remeber exact numers but i can tell you the speed improvement is about 50 % faster with the Drive from the super installed.

FYI the little motor on the feed will not last very long with heavy use of the board return. That is the biggest reason I changed mine out when the small motor cratered.

You will want to change out the conductors to the motors to #8 minimum AND I recommend that you change the battery box to accommodate the bigger battery as well. I used #6 cable to the feed motor. I debated changint the alternator BUT decided on a second delco 105 amp alternator run by a Honda GX160 connected to the mill with a set of #2 OO booster cables that ALSO give me live hydraulics at all times.
I run 2 batteries as I did not change the battery box, so my mill has a lot of reserve capacity.

A major consideration is alternator cooling which again I have done mods to improve.

My alternator now runs between 150 and 200 degrees which is acceptable for longevity.

There is a lots of info on doing these mods in the mods thread.

IF you have questions or would like to talk to me send me a PM and I will send you my Cell# 

Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

DGK

Thanks for the feedback BB. I am set up well with dual hydraulic pumps, dual batteries, external DC power already. Just wanting to speed up the head return and give the board return a try for removing the slabs, hence the larger horse power requirement. If I wasn't going to use the board return, I would just try changing the gear ratio of the belt pulleys. I did this on the up down motor and increased the speed by 20% without any problems.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

bkaimwood

It is my understanding that the super hydraulic is...well, super in the hydraulic department. I believe it's most significant (and that are very significant) speed increase is with the hydraulics, but not a ton with the electrics...
bk

Magicman

Aren't the up/down and power feed motors larger on the SH?  Mine are 3/4 HP Leeson.  Maybe someone with a standard hydraulic mill can verify.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

They are bigger motors and more power draw.  I asked WM many years ago about doing the mod and upgrading to the SH up/down and was cautioned against it.  I don't remember exactly where the weak point was, but it has to do with the higher amperage and the standard 40 not being designed for it, both on the wiring but also maybe the Accuset and drum switch?  Also somehow frying the control board if something went wrong.  I just never got it clear in my head, other than it would work, but could possibly turn out bad....I hate to be so vague, but I would certainly swap over if it could be done without risking more than it gained.
I haven't looked it up in the manual, but I assume the power comes from the main battery through a terminal block, then the drum switch, the Accuset for position control based on the encoder, then to the electric motor?  So can the extra power fry the Accuset?
Marty?  Bandit? 


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Brucer

From watching a couple of Supers in action, I'm pretty sure they either have a variable return speed or some kind of buffering so they slow to a stop. Without one of these features they could generate a pretty respectable reverse current when they come to a stop.

At one point I got in the habit of gigging back with the clutch still engaged and the blade about 1/8" above the cant, then dropping the head as soon as it was clear of the cant while at the same time shifting to forward travel. In other words, the head was still traveling back when I changed direction. It didn't take long to fry my controller :(.

I put the board return from a SH on my standard mill and it works fine. According to WM I shouldn't be dragging back boards thicker than 1 inch. Since I only saw softwoods, I figured I could handle bigger pieces -- like 30' long slabs :o. It works fine but I go through a lot of carriage drive belts.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Magicman

Quote from: Brucer on November 08, 2016, 01:25:58 AM
From watching a couple of Supers in action, I'm pretty sure they either have a variable return speed or some kind of buffering so they slow to a stop. Without one of these features they could generate a pretty respectable reverse current when they come to a stop.
The return is direct (full voltage applied) and not variable.   The drum switch applies a shunt across the motor when you release the lever (applying electrical braking) which brings the carriage to an immediate halt. 

When doing the blade alignment procedure, removing a motor lead will make moving the carriage by hand much easier.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: YellowHammer on November 07, 2016, 07:54:41 PM
They are bigger motors and more power draw.  I asked WM many years ago about doing the mod and upgrading to the SH up/down and was cautioned against it.  I don't remember exactly where the weak point was, but it has to do with the higher amperage and the standard 40 not being designed for it, both on the wiring but also maybe the Accuset and drum switch?  Also somehow frying the control board if something went wrong.  I just never got it clear in my head, other than it would work, but could possibly turn out bad....I hate to be so vague, but I would certainly swap over if it could be done without risking more than it gained.
I haven't looked it up in the manual, but I assume the power comes from the main battery through a terminal block, then the drum switch, the Accuset for position control based on the encoder, then to the electric motor?  So can the extra power fry the Accuset?
Marty?  Bandit?

My knowledge of the LT40H and the LT40SH is that they are the same mill with 1 less pump, smaller (less expensive) drives, and smaller hydraulic hoses.

From having done repair and maintenance on the 40, 40 Super 50 and 70 I can tell you that the hydraulics and the electrics on all but the 40 are the same, and the 40 uses the same wire harness as the 40 Super.

I my humble opinion the supply conductors to the feed and lift motors are too light on all of them and I know that from doing load tests. Hence the reason I have upgraded ALL feed conductors to industrial #8 stranded copper.

Frying electrics in a 12 volt system that is generally designed to handle a range of voltages from 10 on the low side (too low IMO) to 15.5-16.5 on the high side, the probability of frying any thing on a 40 that has been modified to be "almost Super" does increase if you only do a half decent job of it.

Frying components is a result of to low a voltage which increases amperage draw and heat and creates the the wonderfully fried breakfast of things you really rather would not eat.

With a group 27, 31 and a garden tractor battery on the reserve supply running my mill and the 2 x of 105 and a 120 amp alternator powering the electrics the reserves are not an issue HOWEVER reserves do no good if they can not be accessed hence the increase in the conductor gauge to give system access to said reserves.

If I remember correctly the up size to #8 wire increased available amperage draw capacity at the motors by 50% thereby reducing heat build up potential by the same amount and keeps voltage draw down comfortably between 12.5 and 13.5  volts on all the draw components of my mill and 12.2 when the pumps are running.

I have not changed any brushes in well over a 1000 hours and the inspection of brushes in the spring shop session showed no abnormal issues when the hours of operation were at about 1100 with 600 ish of those since the mods and upgrades. Just shy of 1600 today.

Bottom line
Low voltage High amperage is a very hot frying pan!
Strong 13.5 volt reserve backed by 200 plus amp capacity that has the size of "tubes" to deliver to the load amounts to a refrigerator in comparison.

Its like a 1/2 inch water line versus a 1 inch water line. Volume increases 4 times in  regards to water.

It is the volume increase in electrical supply the largely mitigates the Fry factor.                       
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

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