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b20 hydraulic upgrade

Started by sandsawmill14, November 03, 2016, 11:21:48 PM

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sandsawmill14

thinking about putting hyd up and down on a timberking b20 going up and down is to slow :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Tom the Sawyer

Be watching this one closely.  Great hydraulics, but in the frame.  Height adjustments on the head... might be complicated.  I considered trying to find a faster DC motor, or faster gearbox.  That would have increased the speed while maintaining the simplicity of the sensor/Acme screw system and not messed with the setworks.  Good luck with it.   ;)
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

ozarkgem

I guess you could use a fast hydraulic motor instead of a DC motor.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

killamplanes

jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

killamplanes

jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

killamplanes

Well there's mine, nothing complicated wish I would of video editing it in operation. It's fast real fast or can go slow. Real easy to operate. Down fall to most guys would be need to add levers. I sacrifice log loader. But not biggy for me using stationary.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

redprospector

I've thought about a hydraulic motor for the lift on mine too. I just haven't got serious about it yet.
I think the gear box will have to be eliminated, and a motor matched up that will have the torque to lift the head, and the rpm to do it quickly, then fine tune with a flow control. Oh yeah, all that has to be done with the flow available, or an upgrade to the entire system would need to happen (which may not be all bad). I don't have setworks on mine, but if I understand right, it counts the teeth on the sprocket. Seems that if the same size sprocket were used it should not effect the setworks. But since I don't have them, I wouldn't really know.
Are you still running the overhead cable on your b-20? If so, the addition of hydraulics to the head shouldn't be the end of the world.
Have you upgraded the log clamp/dog on your b-20? I'm trying to figure out what to do with that.  ???
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

killamplanes

Other thing with the hyd motor I used there's a relief  hose or a 3rd hose that will drip while using it. Don't really no much about or whatever. But I tie a gallon jug on mill, catch it use it like used oil. But very minimal drip maybe a cup every day or 2. Just another thing I will get to "eventually". :D
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

killamplanes

No gearbox on mine motor and sprocket. Using lever as flow control no set works on mine. Just magnet scale. I cut 5/8 , 3/4 pallet stock most of time right now no problem with this hyd motor setup. Ties are easy to. I have a chain type log turner basically stock kinda. Wish I had a live log deck but dont. Stop and go be even better. Stationary deck for now. Pain.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

killamplanes

My log clamp still same gets shinned up doesn't want to fling up. But really with log turner I can usually minapulate it faster but I do use it. Yes cable runs above for my overhead wire to main motor " ELECTRIC" and hydraulic hoses tied to them.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

killamplanes

jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

sandsawmill14

thanks killamplanes smiley_thumbsup that bout what i had pictured in my mind :)

redprospector yes i still have the overhead cable on mine the cord reel was a pain :)

i have been thinking about going to a 10 hp hyd pack and moving the hyd  off of the mill so i could use a drag back like our big mill  :) i aint afraid of making mods to the mill  ;D we were gonna build a hyd mill but found this one cheaper than we could build it :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

killamplanes

I have too have thought of a hyd power pack Expecially to run a live log deck. Cause the flow is like 60gpm and tk is like 6gpm or somethin. But I would be hesitant to have a power pack plumbed to mill. The log stops etc. Aren't the heaviest design in the world and I think cranking pressure and flow to these systems including fore and aft of Carriage could lead to breaking chains etc. My2c
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

redprospector

Quote from: sandsawmill14 on November 04, 2016, 09:09:28 PM
thanks killamplanes smiley_thumbsup that bout what i had pictured in my mind :)

redprospector yes i still have the overhead cable on mine the cord reel was a pain :)

i have been thinking about going to a 10 hp hyd pack and moving the hyd  off of the mill so i could use a drag back like our big mill  :) i aint afraid of making mods to the mill  ;D we were gonna build a hyd mill but found this one cheaper than we could build it :)
Same here. My Timberking cost about what I had figured to add hydraulics to the mill I built. I'll add them to it some day, but right now I've got my plate full.
Picked up a generator today to run the Fastline, resaw, and planer. Starting a saw shead next week for the Timberking, and edger. Then it's time to quit spending, and work on the income side of this thing again.  :D
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

redprospector

Quote from: killamplanes on November 04, 2016, 09:30:42 PM
I have too have thought of a hyd power pack Expecially to run a live log deck. Cause the flow is like 60gpm and tk is like 6gpm or somethin. But I would be hesitant to have a power pack plumbed to mill. The log stops etc. Aren't the heaviest design in the world and I think cranking pressure and flow to these systems including fore and aft of Carriage could lead to breaking chains etc. My2c
You can build your own hydraulic power pack to suit your needs. I built one on my little log trailer with a 13hp Predator engine, a 6 gpm pump, and a 5 gallon tank. I don't think our mills are putting out over 2 or 3 gpm at most. There are also a lot of other options out there. I've got an old Toro fairway mower that's got a Mitsubishi diesel engine pulling tripple pumps. I'm pulling the mower reels off, adding a bigger tank, and quick couplers, to have a self propelled portable hydraulic power pack. It will have the choice of 12 gpm @ 4600 psi, 15 gpm @ 3200 psi, or (I think it's) 6 gpm @ 3000 psi.
The 3rd line on your lift motor is probably a case drain. They're normally returned to the tank, but with the low flow rate our mills have...like you said earlier, you don't loose much oil.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

sandsawmill14

controlling the bigger hyd pack would be no problem just have to use pressure relief vales and flow controls :) if i decide to go ahead and do it i will leave the factory controls as they are and just plumb in the the new pump i place of the factory pump and hopefully have a little more flow to speed it up a little but use the same pressure that its running on now  :) the pack i have has an adjustable pressure valve ( bypass type not spring relief) and adjustable flow control  :) i  have it set at about 800 psi pressure right now running a tailing belt on the s&w mill i dont know what the flow is rated but its enough it will hold 3500 psi on a 1" line :) the only reason i am considering it is so i can put a drag back on it :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

killamplanes

Ya drag back would be nice. I got a high dollar tarp strap rigged to forward carriage lever. I hook it on there then move my slabs, flitches, boards etc. Works pretty good till I don't keep up with housekeeping and get tripping over stuff.  I just pile slabs to my right between sawyer station and log deck. Once or twice a week back my knuckle boom up move slabs over 30 ft away from mill unload logs straight on deck with the truck and I'm good for awhile again.  I also use forklift if my trucks not around but the grapple works alot easier. There is a million things I should do different but I am slow to change type person..
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

paul case

Have you considered a pineywoods hydraulic pump set up for that stationary mill? He gave pretty detailed instructions on how to build one in the thread Homemade Hydraulics.

I built one for my old woodmizer and now I think the hydraulics on it work faster than my super lt40. I found that The parts were all available at surplus center.com. You can easily mix and match hp and gpm for a motor and pump combination to fit what you need. I built one that is 3 hp and 4gpm  with love-joy connector, hoses and a tank I already had for about$300.

Plus that electric is real cheap to operate compared to a gas engine.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

killamplanes

I think electrics the cats meow for stationary. I watched my local blocking mill run 3 diesel motors all day burning $4 diesel there a couple years ago. one engine is genset to make 3phase.  Anyway, Other than the occasional power glitch, which only happens when ur on the mill its economical.  Off course no portability,  My hydros are off a 3hp Baldor motor.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

sandsawmill14

we have talked about going electric and buying a small cat gen set so we can still be portable if we had to ;) we have the s&w which is stationary and all electric except for 1 hyd pack and we have 10 hp motor to put on it just havent took time to do it yet :-\  electric is certainly cheaper to operate and maintain and at some point we will probably swap over to electric and just set the genset on the trailer with the log deck,green chain and conveyors if we need to go on the road :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

paul case

Well I figured when I saw the pic of the mill with an electric motor that youall knew how much cheaper it was to run. I just never thought that I could fix up a hydraullic power pack for about $300. I seen serveral that were used advertised for $1500 or so and I decided they were too big for what I needed. They had 10 or 15 hp motors and those motors are about $900 new.

I really like my new hydraulics on the old mill. I think they may be faster than the '13 lt40 super. I watched a video of a stock LT40 hd the other day and was worried their hydraulics weren't working right. Then it hit me that mine are SOUPED UP!!!

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

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