iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Building a beginner mill

Started by bigblue12v, October 07, 2016, 12:08:13 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bigblue12v

I've recently acquired an interest in milling.  I fabricate a lot and would prefer to build a mill rather than buy one. I've done some searching to see if there's good reasons for me to consider a circle saw instead of the knee jerk band saw, and it seems the band saw is possibly the better style for me. Also seems like the learning curve might be easier on band perhaps. That might sound silly to some of you but that's my perception. The circle saw ones I've looked at are swing blade and mobile dimension, where the blade isn't really stationary. For a engine i was thinking of using a 16hp twin Onan i have. Not enough power for a large circle blade. I think I have an electric PTO clutch for it as well. The mill will be manual, at least initially. Raw steel, belts pullies engine stuff etc all no problem for me to source. Where's a good place to look for the specialty parts I will need such as blades, guides, the blade wheels etc? Any good sources of info for designing and building your own? Not the type of guy to work from other plans but maybe could get ideas from them. I'd like to be able to cut a log as big as 36" diameter and as long as 16' or so. This will be a stationary unit not mobile.
So far it's just an idea but I'd like to work on it this winter if I can budget it. Need A good shop project to keep me from getting cabin fever.
Thanks in advance!
Eric
Lots of junk not enough time.. full time mechanic part time logger, firewood junkie, outside boiler owner, meat smoker enthusiast, fabricator, dad, husband

bigblue12v

I want to be able to mill anything from table tops with uncut edges to posts or cants from tie logs. Guess I should have put that in the first post.
Lots of junk not enough time.. full time mechanic part time logger, firewood junkie, outside boiler owner, meat smoker enthusiast, fabricator, dad, husband

Wisconsintimber

Welcome to the forum!
I and several others have used 18.75 pulleys from surplus center for the band wheels.  You put a B belt on the pulley and it mkes a crown for the blade to ride and track on.  A lot of people seem to like Cooks guides,  I made my own just using bearings, but could probably benefit from better guides.   My mill can cut 36" but it seems that while making big slabs (20"+) they get a little wavy as it is harder to keep the 1 1/4" blade stable and staight in wider cuts.  Also log handling gets to be more of a challenge when sawing those big ones.
Good luck and have fun!

Joe Hillmann

For blade wheels you can use trailer tires(the blade rides right on the rubber of the tire) or large v pulleys with belts.  A good place to get them is surpluscenter.com they have 18 3/4 pulleys for around $45.

For blades, woodmizer, timberwolf and cooks are all good choices who will make custom length blades for you (woodmizer and cooks don't charge extra for custom length blades, timberwolf does)

Cooks sells several types of blade guides but they may be more expensive then the rest of the mill combined.

ChugiakTinkerer

I'll second the notion that log handling becomes more problematic with the bigger logs.  if you have equipment like a loader or tractor to move the big logs then you could jump right in designing a 36" or larger sawmill.  If that horsepower isn't available, you might want to start smaller.  Or at least keep the logs small until you can harness some horsepower to move the logs.

I've got a 30" manual mill and no equipment for moving logs.  It's more than enough for my needs, but I seriously doubt I could even manhandle a 30" log.  If you're thinking of building a bigger mill then design a bed that will readily accommodate hydraulics.  Even if it remains a manual mill you'll have the option should the need or inspiration arise.

Woodland Mills HM130

bigblue12v

Thanks! I normally hang out in the logging or firewood forums here. I like the belt idea, what do you do with the slack belt to keep it snug on pulley and from interfering with blade? I have a couple metal bandsaws in my shop to sort of model or get ideas from, or just study the geometry. They use bearings for guides I assumed that might work for sawmill but never hurts to ask.
I know power and blade speed might affect the stability of the cut perhaps? What engine are you running?  Pics or videos would be cool.
Yea I figure with my log trailer with crane handy I should be able to manipulate larger ones but might come up with some sort of mechanism on the mill to help as well. I'll learn and modify as I go lol
I figure on the bed sitting on the ground or very close to it so manually rolling logs onto it is an option should my log trailer not be present. Hopefully at some point in the future I'll acquire a loader tractor or skid steer.
Lots of junk not enough time.. full time mechanic part time logger, firewood junkie, outside boiler owner, meat smoker enthusiast, fabricator, dad, husband

dwchaisson

blade speed and tension are very important factors, I forget where I read the post but your HP will affect your blade speed. Here is the mill my students and I built a few years back https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,75849.msg1151549.html#msg1151549  I've followed some of your builds this will be a walk in the park for you Good Luck.
homemade skidder, homemade band mill, home made log loader and trailer, 1993 ford 1 ton,1996 Chevy 1Ton dump, 2010 john deere 5065M with loader, 1987 trackless with blower, 576 husky,565 husky 372husky, homemade processor in the build stage, 900 david brown. 2 fordson majors. Life Long Collector

JRWoodchuck

I used the 18.75" pulleys from Surplus Center. Get the ones that are the 'H' bushing style. I purchased the other style and wallored them out in probably 20 hours of sawing. I used cooks blades and cooks guides very happy with both. I would say at least make your head power up and down. Doing it by hand isn't real fun.
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Joe Hillmann

Quote from: bigblue12v on October 07, 2016, 12:43:24 PM
Thanks! I normally hang out in the logging or firewood forums here. I like the belt idea, what do you do with the slack belt to keep it snug on pulley and from interfering with blade? I have a couple metal bandsaws in my shop to sort of model or get ideas from, or just study the geometry. They use bearings for guides I assumed that might work for sawmill but never hurts to ask.
I know power and blade speed might affect the stability of the cut perhaps? What engine are you running?  Pics or videos would be cool.
Yea I figure with my log trailer with crane handy I should be able to manipulate larger ones but might come up with some sort of mechanism on the mill to help as well. I'll learn and modify as I go lol
I figure on the bed sitting on the ground or very close to it so manually rolling logs onto it is an option should my log trailer not be present. Hopefully at some point in the future I'll acquire a loader tractor or skid steer.

If you use a belts get them small enough you have to stretch them over the pulley to get them on.  Depending on how how tight they are they may have a little bit of slack which isn't a problem.  Watch this video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L24B5BFFFk

It shows about the simplest/cheapest/fewest parts way to get power to the blade.  With that set up you loose a lot of your throat capacity which could be fixed with a belt tensioner between the engine and drive wheel on the bottom of the blade pushing it up.  That also gives you more wrap of the belt around both pulleys so you should have less slip.  Mine is 14 hp.  With the set up I have by the time I am pushing it fast enough to bog the engine down the cut is already starting to get wavy so more power wouldn't help my mill much.

Once you start cutting it is easier to cut hardwoods than softwoods.  If I am cutting pine I can have a blade so dull it I can't make another cut.  I can put on a hardwood log and cut several logs before the blade that was too dull to cut pine starts to show signs of dullness in the hardwood.

Hilltop366

Something to think about.

I would prefer to have the miil bed a bit higher, mine was knee height and found it low another 6 inches  higher would have been easier on the back.

Add a loading deck (could be timber or steel or both) with a fold down bridge and set your logs on it with your crane, it will make life a lot easier to not have to roll the logs up hill to the mill.

Joe Hillmann

Quote from: Hilltop366 on October 07, 2016, 02:01:15 PM
Something to think about.

I would prefer to have the miil bed a bit higher, mine was knee height and found it low another 6 inches  higher would have been easier on the back.



I agree. about the middle of the thigh is a good height.  It is easier to see what your blade is doing and doesn't require bending over to pick up each board.  Even higher would be better because you will quickly be walking on a pile of sawdust.

Slingshot


  That video is the one where the guy puts the Lenox blade on with the teeth
pointed in the wrong direction and wonders why the cut is worse than the
cheap HF blade. He didn't know to flip it and reverse the teeth to point towards
the cutting direction.

__________________________

JRWoodchuck

I run B57 belts (also from the Surplus Center) they slip on pretty easy and have a little bit of sag. From what I gathered that is a good thing. Couldn't tell why though. I started with Timber Wolf urethane belts and they mount so tight that getting them perfectly centered is impossible which in turn created quite a vibration on the band saw.
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

ozarkgem

Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

sandsawmill14

Quote from: Slingshot on October 07, 2016, 02:48:15 PM

  That video is the one where the guy puts the Lenox blade on with the teeth
pointed in the wrong direction and wonders why the cut is worse than the
cheap HF blade. He didn't know to flip it and reverse the teeth to point towards
the cutting direction.

__________________________

i cant believe he didnt notice it when he canged the blade again :D :D :D  but i hve done that to when i get new blades for my tk b20 i have to flip them but on the s&w mill new one are right direction but i have to flip to sharpen on the cooks sharpener and flip back to put on the mill  ::) so sometimes i get confused in all the flipping oz_smiley  headscratch smiley_dizzy smiley_dizzy :-[ :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

ozarkgem

I put one on backwards once. For yrs they were always the right way out of the box. I got one that was turned wrong and didn't pay attention. I didn't do that again.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Kbeitz

I made my mill backwards so every blade I buy needs flipped. ???
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Czech_Made

I was thinking about building a sawmill ever since we bought our place in VA in 2002.  This is what I came up with, it works for me really well.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,90578.msg1394410.html#msg1394410




thecfarm

I have a short outline of teeth drawn on my mill. I had some WM blades that needed flip. My friend was quite impressed when I unwrapped the blade and was quite impressed again when I turned it inside out. Almost had him convinced I knew what I was doing.  :D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

ozarkgem

Quote from: thecfarm on October 08, 2016, 06:05:03 PM
I have a short outline of teeth drawn on my mill. I had some WM blades that needed flip. My friend was quite impressed when I unwrapped the blade and was quite impressed again when I turned it inside out. Almost had him convinced I knew what I was doing.  :D
[/quote
I like to twist them into 3 circles like when they are shipped. Not sure what you call it. I let my guest try it. No one has done it yet. Fun to watch.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Kbeitz

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

bigblue12v

Thanks so much for all the responses! I've been terribly busy lately, keeping up with my full time job, my property and our vehicles being needy. Even after I'm done upgrading the transmission in her Jeep I'll be back to the woods logging and trying to catch up on firewood as well. If all goes well I would like to work on sawmill as winter project when weather pushes me into the shop and the daylight after work is very limited to force me out of the woods.
To me having my own mill would be empowering, and a fun learning adventure. I'm not a carpenter or wood worker but have seen some cool stuff I'd like to try to hack out. I know a few guys that do some fine wood working and I think I could offer a service to them. My logging operation is of a very small size in more ways than one. It is a part time gig. I'm not a professional so I'm not overly efficient. And my equipment is downscaled significantly. What this means is I can service smaller jobs where there is not enough yield to justify a standard full size operation to move in, as their costs are so much higher. I also offer the advantage of extremely minimal impact on the property. Being small means I can be very flexible, if someone wanted to hire me to come in and harvest a very select two or three trees, specifically and nothing else, it would be affordable for them. A tree service does not harvest logs, nor are they typically equipped to deal with logs, full on commercial harvest crews don't mess with small jobs. I'm the in between. It's a niche market. There's probably a handful of guys locally that have a hobby mill, one of my wood worker friends knows of one. My friend has timber but no way to transport it. The guy with the mill charges $100 mobilize and setup fee, which is very reasonable. But Tom can't justify that for one log to be milled. But he would probably be happy paying me $50 to swing by and load up the log and haul it to my mill, then pay me to saw it. Or we trade services and I get him to build me some stuff I want. Also we have equipment and animals, all of which have shelter needs. I can bring home logs and make myself lumber to build shelters. I'm not really hoping to make it a fiscally profitable venture, more of something fun to do and learn about. If I make money off of it, that's just a bonus. But I think it will empower me to be a little more independent and provide a niche service even if only on a very small scale.

I very much appreciate the input provided by you all! The sawmill forum here has a lot of activity! When I get started building I will keep you all updated! It may be a while! I have way too many irons in the fire.
Lots of junk not enough time.. full time mechanic part time logger, firewood junkie, outside boiler owner, meat smoker enthusiast, fabricator, dad, husband

Thank You Sponsors!