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Milling LONG timbers

Started by Ljohnsaw, September 22, 2016, 01:48:53 AM

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Ljohnsaw

I've milled up to 18' so far and my band mill will handle about 36' or so.  My cabin has 5 beams that measure 52' long.  My neighbors just had a Ponderosa dropped that is 60' long, 24" on the butt with very little taper - probably 18-20" at the top end.  I have a couple more of similar size.  My plan was to do a scarf joint on all 5 beams because I wasn't counting on having long logs - but not looking forward to doing 5 of them.

So, techniques?  Worth the hassle?  Is it "a simple" as having a level mill and re-leveling the log each time you shift it?

I tried searching for a thread I recalled but can't find it.  I think the poster was slicing and removing several pieces of side wood on half the log before shifting and finishing up the side then rolling it.  But that seemed like it would have weird stress build-up.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

customsawyer

I think your question is about timbers. I know we have some old timers on here but not sure long timers.  :D
What kind of mill do you have?
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
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Ljohnsaw

Quote from: customsawyer on September 22, 2016, 03:16:05 AM
I think your question is about timbers. I know we have some old timers on here but not sure long timers.  :D
What kind of mill do you have?
Ops, long day...

I have a stout homemade band mill.

 
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

sawmilllawyer

I recall a post where S.C. Smith posted about milling really long boards for one of his projects. Hope that helps. I have been closely following your progress on the cabin with interest.
Stihl MS-361, MS-460 mag, Poulan 2150, 2375 Wildthing.

Joe Hillmann

What about building a wooden extension on to your mill?  It doesn't need to be very sturdy to just do one log if you are carefully.

customsawyer

I do 40' timbers all the time. If you think a 10' log has stress in it than you need to multiply 10'X4 to get the stress in a long timber. Some times that will work against you but if you read the log right you can use it to help you make a better timber.  ;)
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

rjwoelk

First off that tree is going to weigh some were in 100 lbs per linel ft t.We had a 48 ft that size in diameter,   our 150 hp tractor just lift it. Its good to 5500 lbs.
With toe rollers it would move ok.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

4x4American

I wish that we had timber up this way that grew like that!
Boy, back in my day..

scsmith42

I've milled long but it's easy to do so with my setup. As Jake wrote, it's important to read the log.

Personally I think long beams are cool and I would encourage you to do so if you have the capabilities and log abailability.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Andries

ljohnsaw:
You built your mill (that takes some know-how !)
and you built it to cut 36' logs (so you like long timbers/lumber)
AND (here's the hard part) you got a source for loooog logs.
I'm with Jake and scsmith42, long beams are cool and take your time reading the log before cutting.
To top it off, you might have a bit of time to make this work, 'cause your by-line says you're retired.
Two ways to do this: cut and shift, or make an extension for your mill.
Here's my way of dealing with this:
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Ljohnsaw

Yes, long, solid timbers would look cool.  But so does a good scarf joint...

I have a Skytrak that can lift 9,000 up close so I suppose when I get to-it, I'll just need a bunch of cribbing to support the off-end?  To retrieve this log, I'll probably lash my log arch to one end so I can lift the other and drive backwards back to my property (2/10 mile).

I don't have rollers (toe rollers) as of yet, but maybe I should consider it.  But that's a lot of weight to try and roll, especially on a manual mill!  I think I'll stick to the Skytrak and its ability to crab steer.

OK, back to techniques.  You make the cut complete from one end to the other, rotate and repeat?  No short cuts (ha -a pun) like removing multiple pieces of side wood from one end?  Does that induce too much stress?

As an aside, a tree crew was removing a dead pine near the freeway on my way out today.  It was stated as being 160' tall.  They had chunked off the top half (rotted) and were working on dropping the bottom.  Easily 5' DBH.  Now THAT was a big tree!  I have a couple like that on my property but I'm not taking those out.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

customsawyer

With out being familiar with the controls of your mill it is difficult to advise on how to make this work. Is your mill a four post mill? 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

opticsguy

First of all, I do not know anything....... keep that in mind.
How about for a one time job, you pull out your chainsaw, make up one of those "Alaska mill" set ups and cut your log?  No real need to move such a huge log with all the possibilities of damage to equipment and possible injuries. Run out and buy a Makita 6" planer for any cleanup needed and you are good to go. Trust me, once you have a 6" handheld planer you will be doubly happy!
OK, remember, I don't know anything!!
TK 1220 band mill,  1952 Ford F-2, 1925 Dodge touring, too many telescopes.

red

I like when someone asks for long timbers . then talks about cutting them in Half ?
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: customsawyer on September 23, 2016, 04:48:59 AM
With out being familiar with the controls of your mill it is difficult to advise on how to make this work. Is your mill a four post mill?

Yes it is.  It was designed to handle 42".  I need to make two 8x12 and three 8x15 x 52' foot beams.  I am making the assumption that I should box the heart and only get 1 beam per log.  I also need fifty 5x9 x 22' foot rafters.  So, I will be removing big side wood, lightening the load quickly.  If the geometry works out, I'm hoping to get a lot of rafters from each log as side wood.

OpticsGuy, I only have a medium sized chainsaw.  An Alaskan setup would be expensive for me to get going.  But, I do like the thought of a planer!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

plowboyswr

Take a look @Peter Drouin 's method he has photos of it in his gallery. might be the way you're thinking.
Just an ole farm boy takin one day at a time.
Steve

Dave Shepard

 I just put them on the mill and saw them up. :D That's a 52' 12"x12". Long timbers are nice, but are a lot of work. I'd probably try to extend the mill. Sawing 47' on a 45' took three guys three hours. Sawing 52' on a 57' mill, one person could turn out a 12"x12" every hour.


 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

customsawyer

Since you built your mill and you obviously have the skills, why don't you extend it?
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: customsawyer on September 24, 2016, 02:50:05 AM
Since you built your mill and you obviously have the skills, why don't you extend it?
I'm cheap!  But seriously, I only have 5 beams to do.  To add another 30' of track (build like the original) is about $600-800 in new steel plus 8 new 2,000# jacks (last 12 were free) and a week or so of welding and painting.

I wonder if I could have a hybrid type track - more like a circle mill that you set up around the log.  The 2x3x¼" angle has a certain amount of stiffness and would need to support it along the way as well as keeping it parallel to each other.  Hmmm.  That would only be 3 sticks plus some plates (bolted on so welding wouldn't distort the steel) to keep it from flopping over.  My head is probably 300#.  The new track could be set on cribbing (as well as that end of the log) and the jacks on the original track used to raise/lower it to the new track's level.  Hmmm.  That might be doable...  Rotating the log would still be an adventure.

My head wheels are 4'6" long.  I could add 10' to the head end and the log would hang over the first bunk by 5 or 6'.  Do you think that is too far unsupported?  Then I would only have to add 20' to the tail end.  Hmmm.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

barbender

Sometimes I step back from a difficult problem and reevaluate. I have found myself wrestling a 16' long board on to a miter saw before, and realizing it would be way easier to bring a circular saw to the board. Same deal here, I would forget the sawmill and get out the chainsaw. Learn how to mark your timber out with chalk lines like the old time timber framers and log builders. Then either make ripping cuts to the line freehand (I used a 4 1/2" grinder and flexible backed discs to clean up after) or make blocking cuts to the line every 3-4", knock off the chunks and clean up. It's a lot of work but less than putting the extension on your mill for 5 logs.
Too many irons in the fire

rjwoelk

But once you have the extension you can always do long ones for someone else,
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Okrafarmer

Quote from: rjwoelk on September 24, 2016, 02:00:24 PM
But once you have the extension you can always do long ones for someone else,

Dat's whot oI was thinking!

8)
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Kbeitz

I would go for the extension... Look for used steel.
Junkyard sizzor jacks work just fine.
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Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

customsawyer

Once you have it built and folks find out some will come. When it comes to turning the logs what ever you use to load the logs with you can wrap a strap or chain around the log (in the right direction) and then just raise up with the loader and the log will spin.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Kbeitz on September 25, 2016, 04:57:50 AM
I would go for the extension... Look for used steel.
Junkyard sizzor jacks work just fine.
I wish I had your junk yard closer to me!  All steel goes to Snitzer Steel and gets sent off to Japan or somewhere.  They won't sell to the public.  I keep an eye on CraigsList but not much shows up there.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Dave Shepard

You can't really buy out of a junk yard around here anymore. Any good structural gets cut to five feet before it even shows up.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

opticsguy

Dave Shepard said;  "I just put them on the mill and saw them up. :D That's a 52' 12"x12". Long timbers are nice, but are a lot of work. I'd probably try to extend the mill. Sawing 47' on a 45' took three guys three hours. Sawing 52' on a 57' mill, one person could turn out a 12"x12" every hour."

OK so what is the story about your 12" x 12" x 52 foot beam?   Maybe start a new post and tell us the story, pleeeeze!!!
TK 1220 band mill,  1952 Ford F-2, 1925 Dodge touring, too many telescopes.

Joe Hillmann

Quote from: ljohnsaw on September 24, 2016, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: customsawyer on September 24, 2016, 02:50:05 AM
Since you built your mill and you obviously have the skills, why don't you extend it?
I'm cheap!  But seriously, I only have 5 beams to do.  To add another 30' of track (build like the original) is about $600-800 in new steel plus 8 new 2,000# jacks (last 12 were free) and a week or so of welding and painting.

I wonder if I could have a hybrid type track - more like a circle mill that you set up around the log.  The 2x3x¼" angle has a certain amount of stiffness and would need to support it along the way as well as keeping it parallel to each other.  Hmmm.  That would only be 3 sticks plus some plates (bolted on so welding wouldn't distort the steel) to keep it from flopping over.  My head is probably 300#.  The new track could be set on cribbing (as well as that end of the log) and the jacks on the original track used to raise/lower it to the new track's level.  Hmmm.  That might be doable...  Rotating the log would still be an adventure.

My head wheels are 4'6" long.  I could add 10' to the head end and the log would hang over the first bunk by 5 or 6'.  Do you think that is too far unsupported?  Then I would only have to add 20' to the tail end.  Hmmm.

There is no reason to build it out of new steel though.  You could cut beams on your mill to make the extension out of wood.  Use cribbing and shims to level it up and use some 3/4 steel water pipe for your carriage to roll on.  When you are done you can cut up the beams and cribbing you used to make the extensions so you are not even wasting that.  Your only expense would be the pipe or angle iron the carriage rides on and maybe some long lag screws/bolts.

Dave Shepard

Quote from: opticsguy on September 25, 2016, 11:28:54 AM
Dave Shepard said;  "I just put them on the mill and saw them up. :D That's a 52' 12"x12". Long timbers are nice, but are a lot of work. I'd probably try to extend the mill. Sawing 47' on a 45' took three guys three hours. Sawing 52' on a 57' mill, one person could turn out a 12"x12" every hour."

OK so what is the story about your 12" x 12" x 52 foot beam?   Maybe start a new post and tell us the story, pleeeeze!!!

They were used for the long sills, plates, and purlin plates.


  

 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

4x4American

Wow, awesome timber frame...got any more to share?  Or am I in the wrong place  :D
Boy, back in my day..

Peter Drouin

Dave you're the man, Nice pics  8) 8)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
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