Importing Tropical Logs?

[Bob_T]

I have a friend who is a citizen of Papua New Guinea. His family owns a lot of forested property.  He asked me if I could help him find out what he'd have to do to find a market for logs in the USA.  I asked, and he doesn't as yet know exactly what different types of wood he has.  His initial plan is to cut and ship logs, and then when he is able to save some money, set up his own mill so that he can sell a finished product rather than just logs.

Does anyone have any experience with importing logs to the US?  

I should add a disclaimer here that I'm only trying to help a friend, but I guess  it's possible that I may someday end up in a business, with him providing the logs from PNG and me doing the milling.

Appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Thanks,

Bob Thomasson

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I "think" the logs will have to be dried and certified so, to kill the bugs and stuff. Might be wrong, but, I heard that somewhere???  Dried lumber would be the best and you would get better return on the timber by sawing.

  "Rainforest" timber is getting harder to sell in the US. All the Tree Huggers are against it and are putting pressure on the BIG Dealers.

[Ianab]

I'd suggest looking at the Peterson , Lucas or Ecosaw mills. You should be able to get one of these mills set up on the ground in PNG cheaper than the freight is going to set you back for a load of logs. Labour is relatively cheap there and the mills are designed to work in that environment. Will be easier to sell wood from smaller scale managed harvesting. Air dry the wood and ship it over in containers for finishing and sale?

Thats my 2c anyway

Ian

[Fla._Deadheader]

  That's exactly what I'm going to Costa Rica to look at doing, Peterson and all. ;D ;D ;D

[sawmillsi]

Hi Bob,

I have worked in PNG for the (then) Peterson Mill Agents.

Can I offer some hard won advise?

There has been a concerted effort from the PNG government for the past 10 years or so to stamp out the export of logs (in fact, I thought it was illegel) to encourage the processing of timber locally - even if its just taking 4 sides off the log.

All of the high value timbers (PNG Rosewood, Vitex, Kwila, Walnut etc... are not allowed to be exported in log form).

PNG generally has issues with customary land ownership (that is, no one person owns the land and when one person chooses to bring in a logging or sawmilling company, the rest of the family can take it to court and hold up the company for a real long time), which makes it real interesting when you have customers that have been promised a product.

In Australia, it is impossible to import logs from PNG, and is so hard its almost impossible, to import timber greater than 8" thickness, that it may as well be illegal.

More than likely he will want to be financed to do this (as the average wage over there is almost nothing, and could never afford to cut and haul the logs to Lae - the only port in PNG able to handle the logs), and I would be almost certain that he has no real experience in any aspect of this.

I don't mean to be negative about this, but I think you should be real carefull.

Do you know where he is, or where he is talking about? Town or province?

Let me know and I might be able to help you further.

Simon

[rebocardo]

I think getting dried lumber through customs in the USA would be easier then logs that could contain non-native insects in the bark and wood.

If the log spends five months between cutting and being turned to lumber in the USA, it might be only worth pulp when it gets here. Especially if it is not stored in a container and is subject to salt water.

Considering the shipping costs, dried wood would be much cheaper to ship in a container then whole logs, even if they were cut to 20 foot lengths. imo

[Bob_T]

Thanks to all who responded.  I appreciate your comments and advice and they all seem to be on the same wavelength as what I've been thinking.

Simon, I met this fellow while I was working at the gold mine on Lihir Island (I'm in Australia now on my way back home to the US)  He's very sincere, most of the PNG Nationals I met are sincere almost to a fault, and I found that very refreshing.

 He showed me on the map where his timber was, but I'll be darned if I recall the province.  I'll also find out about other land owners or wantoks and find out what sort of potential issues they may raise.  Thanks for pointing out that possible problem  He has email through work, but no internet connection so he can't log on here himself.

I advised him that I thought it would be in his, and his countrys, best interest to add value to the logs by milling them first and that seems to be in line with what's been advised here.  I think it's an excellent idea for it to be illegal to export logs from PNG.  We talked about the environment and he clearly was concerned and wanted the timber harvesting on his land to be sustainable.

I also have heard that much of the logging in PNG is controlled by a Malaysian logging company that bribes corrupt government officials and it's very hard for a PNG National to get started in the business.

Thanks again,

Bob Thomasson

[sawmillsi]

Sounds like you've got it sussed.

The company are talking about is called Ribuan Hijau (I think the spelling is correct) commonly called R & H. They control about 80% of PNG's forests and rape and pillage it.

good luck

[beav]

   The US is the only country on earth that allows unprocessed sawlogs to be sold outside its borders  >:(

[Ianab]

Put NZ down on that list to.
But it's only plantation pine that is being shipped out in log form, mostly to Asia.
Still cant help thinking it would be better for the economy to process them here (a LOT are), same thoughts as the threads on outsourcing. But overall NZ wants free trade, sometimes you win... sometimes you loose. :

[beenthere]

 beav   ???  

Not sure what you are meaning to say here.

""The US is the only country on earth that allows unprocessed sawlogs to be sold outside its borders""

The US allows export of unprocessed sawlogs? Any particular species, or all species?  I thought there were restrictions on logs being exported, and that at least some species on the West coast and Alaska had to be 'processed' (even if that meant only sawn on two faces).

Or are you saying the US allows countries to sell unprocessed logs between themselves, with no US interference?  
I think you mean the former, and not the latter.
And maybe you mean that in ME, logs can be sold and shipped unprocessed.  

[beav]

   beenthere- yes the former.  
   What I am mostly referring to is the old forests of the NW being cut and shipped to japan in log form.They are stored in their harbours and lakes. This cutting was subsidized by our  government   so it amounted to a gift from the taxpayers. Sitka spr and Dug fir. old growth. I just want one.... :'(
   Things may be different now. Those trees are worth big bux, any left standing...

[Bruce_A]

It has been a lot of years since state or federal timber has been allowed to go out for export. At least from Washington.  But private timber is exported from all over.  With the cut backs on federal harvest quotas, private timber has been channeled to the domestic markets as well as the federal and state timber.  Mills have been improved with good old American know how, and produce way more wood with fewer hands.  Rough cut lumber or cants can be exported which does create some jobs.  The change in logging has shut down most of the large log mills, and anything with a butt diameter of more than 36" is hard to find a market for.  The longer government timber is locked up by eco-terrorists tactics, the lower its value goes.

[rebocardo]

It was not too long ago I watched a documentary on LA  (might have been AL) where they were loading logs onto Japanese freighters for $1-$2 a log.  While the local population lived like paupers because they were unemployed and the local mills were closed.

[Arthur]

You may find that the current regs are the same in the US as for Australia.

sawn timber imported here needs to be fumigated with NO sapwood regardless of the origin of the timber.

I presume that this stops logs being imported as they tend to still have sapwood attached ;D

[sawmillsi]

Arthur,

I can import timber into Australia with sap wood as long as it fumigated correctly.

Our business has also exported timber to New Zealand with sap wood on numerous occasions.

Simon

[sigidi]

Arthur didn't yo have a post awhile back about kerf research to try and get a swinger into one of the islands? As I recall there was some issues with using blades over bands??

Or am I so far off track?

[Arthur]

sigidi

Yes.

Went to Fiji.  The laws there are somewhat complicated but basically circular sawmills are banned with a few exceptions.  The preference is bandsaws with small kerf.

Perterson however is getting close with a 3.5mm kerf on their mills and we are currently testing a 3mm and 3.25mm kerf blades.


I have recently found that some contries in South America also have kerf laws but most blades 5.5mm and under are OK.  This does prevent us selling our insert tip blades as they are 7.1mm.

The Fiji laws are not just Kerf but a number of other problems.

arthur

[crtreedude]

I don't know if any said it, but Costa Rica will permit exporting of logs unprocessed - for example 100s of containers of teak are sent to India in the log because India has high tariffs for sawn wood - which seems stupid to me since they have pretty much depleted their entire forest.

Of course, they are trying to preserve jobs - but it is going to cost them a lot more jobs because the cost of shipping all that extra weight eats into their profit, etc.

Fred