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Author Topic: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill Progress And Questions :)  (Read 9319 times)

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Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2016, 12:32:28 pm »
I just looked at your plans on instagram.  I don't think that head will be sturdy enough.  You will probably  need another set of posts 2 feet or 18 inches behind the first with the tops tied together and lots of 45degree brackets bracing everything nice and solid.

Also you want something that wraps from the the bottom of the head down below the tracks to act as a hook so the head can't twist off the tracks.  If that happens when the head is up or the saw is running it gets dangerous quick.

If you have just a few large logs you can always quarter them with a chainsaw (the bar only needs to be close to half the width of the log) and wedges then mill the 1/4's on the sawmill.  You don't get the huge slabs but you gets lots of lumber out of them.

Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2016, 12:41:31 pm »
Here is someone who built a wide cutting, small tire mill in 2012.  I don't know if he is still on the forum but you could try contacting him to see how it worked/ what problems he had. 

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=61565.0

Although it looks like since then he bought a timber king mill then sold it so I assume that means it wasn't quite up the task.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2016, 01:10:10 pm »

I still think 4 feet would be too wide of a cut for a mill using tires but I will give you some numbers from my homemade tire mill that you can use to extrapolate to your mill.
 To figure the contact area of the blade to the tires I will take 24"(the diameter of the tire)times pi(3.14) times 7/8" (the width of the blade in contact with the tire)  Which gives me about 66 square inches of contact.  That times the pressure in the tires (35 psi) gives me 2310 pounds of max stretch on the blade.  But that stretch is divided by the top and bottom of the blade.  So I have about 1155 pounds of strain on the blade which is well below the 1500 pounds that is the recommended minimum strain that should be on the blade.

I run my tires at 35 psi because if I go much above that the rubber of the tire deforms around the blade and takes the set out and bogs the engine.  But if I had a separate way to tension the blade I could run 60psi in the blades then tension the blade until the rubber starts to deform I would be able to get 2000 pounds of strain on the blade.

Joe,
Thanks for doing the math ;)  I never thought about checking on mine to see what the tension is to stop the flutter.  I'm running 1.25" blade so your 7/8" contact is about right.  However, I'm using doughnut spare tires that run at 60 or 65 psi but they are a little smaller (22.5" dia).  They are VERY stiff and do not deform much around the blade for as far as I've dared to push the blade tension.  I just tighten until flutter is at a minimum.  So with your calculations -> 22.5 x 3.14 x 7/8 x 60psi = 3,700 lbs of tension (max).  But that tension is shared by the top and bottom sections of blade, so my actual blade tension would be half of that or 1,850 lbs.  My (designed) max cut is 42".  The 42" bed is just so I don't have to bibby down some monster logs.  I don't plan on splitting anything that big.  With 18hp gas and a sharp blade, I did a good job on some 30" logs.
John Sawicky

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SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2016, 01:27:41 pm »

I still think 4 feet would be too wide of a cut for a mill using tires but I will give you some numbers from my homemade tire mill that you can use to extrapolate to your mill.
 To figure the contact area of the blade to the tires I will take 24"(the diameter of the tire)times pi(3.14) times 7/8" (the width of the blade in contact with the tire)  Which gives me about 66 square inches of contact.  That times the pressure in the tires (35 psi) gives me 2310 pounds of max stretch on the blade.  But that stretch is divided by the top and bottom of the blade.  So I have about 1155 pounds of strain on the blade which is well below the 1500 pounds that is the recommended minimum strain that should be on the blade.

I run my tires at 35 psi because if I go much above that the rubber of the tire deforms around the blade and takes the set out and bogs the engine.  But if I had a separate way to tension the blade I could run 60psi in the blades then tension the blade until the rubber starts to deform I would be able to get 2000 pounds of strain on the blade.

Joe,
Thanks for doing the math ;)  I never thought about checking on mine to see what the tension is to stop the flutter.  I'm running 1.25" blade so your 7/8" contact is about right.  However, I'm using doughnut spare tires that run at 60 or 65 psi but they are a little smaller (22.5" dia).  They are VERY stiff and do not deform much around the blade for as far as I've dared to push the blade tension.  I just tighten until flutter is at a minimum.  So with your calculations -> 22.5 x 3.14 x 7/8 x 60psi = 3,700 lbs of tension (max).  But that tension is shared by the top and bottom sections of blade, so my actual blade tension would be half of that or 1,850 lbs.  My (designed) max cut is 42".  The 42" bed is just so I don't have to bibby down some monster logs.  I don't plan on splitting anything that big.  With 18hp gas and a sharp blade, I did a good job on some 30" logs.

I should point out that math is very rough and but gives you some what of an idea of the tension you have.  I think the numbers are only somewhat accurate if the tire is starting to deform.  It also doesn't take into account the stiffness of the rubber which at very low psi's add to the pressure on the blade but at average or higher pressures probably reduces the pressure.

Offline Jay Sybrandy

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2016, 04:20:10 pm »
Thanks for all the help :) I might try find some steel or aluminum wheels.
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2016, 04:39:01 pm »
I would think that metal fatigue would be an issue with aluminum.  My choice would be steel.
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Offline Jay Sybrandy

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2016, 04:41:02 pm »
I just looked at your plans on instagram.  I don't think that head will be sturdy enough.  You will probably  need another set of posts 2 feet or 18 inches behind the first with the tops tied together and lots of 45degree brackets bracing everything nice and solid.

Also you want something that wraps from the the bottom of the head down below the tracks to act as a hook so the head can't twist off the tracks.  If that happens when the head is up or the saw is running it gets dangerous quick.

If you have just a few large logs you can always quarter them with a chainsaw (the bar only needs to be close to half the width of the log) and wedges then mill the 1/4's on the sawmill.  You don't get the huge slabs but you gets lots of lumber out of them.

I sill have to put gussets in and stuff :) it's only an outline :)

Would some wheels like this hen better http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-URETHANE-TIRES-FOR-WILTON-20-BAND-SAW-FITS-WHEELS-19-3-4-DIA-X-1-Wide-/261695035610?hash=item3cee3d58da:g:yeMAAOxyi-ZTYU5N
Making large bandsaw sawmill - 15 Years old - NZ

Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2016, 05:55:01 pm »


Would some wheels like this hen better http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-URETHANE-TIRES-FOR-WILTON-20-BAND-SAW-FITS-WHEELS-19-3-4-DIA-X-1-Wide-/261695035610?hash=item3cee3d58da:g:yeMAAOxyi-ZTYU5N

Those are only the rubber tire that fits on metal pulleys.  If I were building one and didn't want to use automotive tires I would start here  http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Pulleys/Finished-Bore-Pulleys/18-75-O-D-1-7-16-BORE-1-GROOVE-PULLEY-1-BK190-J.axd

And run v belts on each pulley  for tires.  Also on the same site you can get just about everything you need to build a mill.

Although I am not sure if the pulleys I linked to are quite strong enough.  They only have a 1 inch bore so that may be your week point.  I think woodmizer uses 2 inch shafts and even then at some point in the past had issues with them breaking.

Offline Jay Sybrandy

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2016, 06:58:13 pm »


Would some wheels like this hen better http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-URETHANE-TIRES-FOR-WILTON-20-BAND-SAW-FITS-WHEELS-19-3-4-DIA-X-1-Wide-/261695035610?hash=item3cee3d58da:g:yeMAAOxyi-ZTYU5N

Those are only the rubber tire that fits on metal pulleys.  If I were building one and didn't want to use automotive tires I would start here  http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Pulleys/Finished-Bore-Pulleys/18-75-O-D-1-7-16-BORE-1-GROOVE-PULLEY-1-BK190-J.axd

And run v belts on each pulley  for tires.  Also on the same site you can get just about everything you need to build a mill.

Although I am not sure if the pulleys I linked to are quite strong enough.  They only have a 1 inch bore so that may be your week point.  I think woodmizer uses 2 inch shafts and even then at some point in the past had issues with them breaking.

Thanks will they ship to NZ ? I dident realise they where only the rubber :) though they where cheap :)  Can I use a pully that's 1" wide and use a 1 1/4" blade ?
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2016, 07:43:45 pm »
what about 12 ply forklift tires ?
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Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2016, 10:25:57 pm »
I didn't take into account your location.  Shipping on parts that would be reasonable for me could easily double the price for you.

Maybe a tire mill isn't the worst idea for you when you figure in if you need to ship everything in from overseas.  You can get 6 ply trailer tires pretty cheap that have a max psi of 90 lbs (I like trailer tires because they have a nice crown to them that makes tracking easy that car tires don't have)

If you had 90 psi in a 24 inch tire you would be able to get nearly 3000 pounds of tension on the blade but then you will have a hard time finding bearings that could hold the strain (you would also have that same issue if you used the v pulley I linked to.

Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2016, 10:38:29 pm »
I just found timberwolfs suggestions for psi on blades and they are much lower than others I have seen.  http://timberwolfblades.com/blade-tension.php  for a 1 inch blade they recommend only 14,000- 17,000psi.  But those numbers are probably for an average mill that can cut less than 30 inches wide.


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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2016, 10:42:12 pm »

Will the green stickers result in boards that aren't straight or not ? Can I use pine stickers :)



Green stickers shouldn't bother the straightness as long as you have the lumber stacked properly.  Pine stickers are the most common kind of stickers in this neck of the woods. 
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Offline Jay Sybrandy

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2016, 12:41:42 am »

Will the green stickers result in boards that aren't straight or not ? Can I use pine stickers :)


 Thanks


Green stickers shouldn't bother the straightness as long as you have the lumber stacked properly.  Pine stickers are the most common kind of stickers in this neck of the woods. 
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Offline Jay Sybrandy

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2016, 12:17:43 am »
This saw mill has small tiers that are quite far apart skip to the end to see it working
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2016, 12:41:28 am »
Its not the distance between the tires but the width of the log you would be trying to cut.  I think he said that was a 10hp motor and that log was about as much as it could handle.  I have an 18hp on mine and would like something twice that size ;).  What I saw that concerned me a little was how the blade was "sinking" into the tire.  I would think that would adversely affect the set on the blade and cause it to rise in the wood.  But his cuts were looking good!  The problem with smaller tires is it flexes the blade more and will fatigue it faster causing it to break.
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SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline ozarkgem

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2016, 05:12:39 am »
what about 12 ply forklift tires ?
[/quote
I know where a mill is that uses 2" bands and semi tires and 50 hp electric. Works good.
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Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2016, 11:21:58 am »
This saw mill has small tiers that are quite far apart skip to the end to see it working

It can be done but it is a matter of how well it works.  If you have a freshly sharpened blade with lots of set you can make a pretty nice cut with no tension at all but the end of the second or third cut that razor sharp blade is starting to dull and your blade will start to rise and dive in the cut.  The more tension you have the longer you can go with a dulling blade and still get straight cuts. 

In my experience soft woods (especially around knots) require a much sharper blade and more tension than hardwoods.  (of course I have no way to compare the woods I am sawing to the woods you will be cutting)  I often have a blade that is too dull to cut pine any more but I put it back on when I have some oak or ash and I can cut several more logs with it.

Offline Jay Sybrandy

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2016, 07:01:05 pm »
NEW QUESTION :

I might use blade guides like this https://www.timberking.com/images/talon2.jpg
But why do they have the slots in them ?
Can I make them out of 50mm stainless steel ?
And do I have it so they push the blade down all the time ? https://youtu.be/5u73MNTPnWg?t=3m49s

Thanks

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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Homemade Portables Bandsaw Sawmill
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2016, 07:23:36 pm »
I suspect the slots are to let the sawdust escape/not build up on the guide wheel.  Yes, you need to have the guide pushing the blade down between " and ".  That allows the alignment of the blade guide to actually guide the blade (angle to the bed) and helps prevent the blade from hopping under the back guide surface.  Bad things happen if the blade gets behind your guides!
John Sawicky

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SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.