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NEW Central Boiler Install

Started by DDW_OR, September 08, 2016, 05:57:19 PM

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DDW_OR

the next load of madrone lasted SIX DAYS at similar temps.

the plumber has not fixed his mistake yet because of our need for heat.
"let the machines do the work"

trapper

My hot goes in from the bottom of the sidearm and we have had all the hot water we could use for the last 12 years.
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

petefrom bearswamp

Off the subject a little bit.
Any problems with the shark bite connectors?
I used them on my classic, but the water level kept dropping.
No leaks in the firebox and I determined that the connectors were weeping slightly, and th ewater was generally evaporating due to the heat so it was not readily evident.
I changed to automotive heater hose and conventional clamps and solved the problem.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

DDW_OR

no leaks, the water level has remained the same.
"let the machines do the work"

overclocking

Quote from: ibbob on December 19, 2016, 09:43:52 AM
Switch the red and blue at the thermo pex and you'll have it right.  Hot has to go in the top of the side arm to make it work

His is correct. The hot goes into the bottom first, it warms the cooler water that has settled on the bottom of the tank and causes it to rise, which starts the siphon.  I have seen it both ways, but the way he has it is how CB recommends they are hooked up for correct siphon to take place.



 

QuoteOff the subject a little bit.
Any problems with the shark bite connectors?
I used them on my classic, but the water level kept dropping.
No leaks in the firebox and I determined that the connectors were weeping slightly, and th ewater was generally evaporating due to the heat so it was not readily evident.
I changed to automotive heater hose and conventional clamps and solved the problem.

The shark-bites shouldn't leak ever, if they do then the pipe was scratched and the O-ring never sealed. They use them here for new residential houses, like $500k houses and they even put them in the walls. I haven't seen one leak that was prepped right. Aside from that I have probably 20 or more on my system and so far I only had a problem with one, and it was old and was exposed to muriatic acid when I was cleaning the exchanger. Its possible your problem was a scratch or out of round pipe. The plastic insert might not have been used as well if it was leaking on pex.



How has the edge been as far as cleaning and clogging up? I imagine it spends most of its day at idle given the load.

DDW_OR

Quote from: overclocking on March 25, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
How has the edge been as far as cleaning and clogging up? I imagine it spends most of its day at idle given the load.

you are correct, the CB spends most of its time in idle which causes the fire to go out.

for end-of-season cleaning i let the CB water temp drop to under 100 degrees, then loaded DRY wood to create a hot fire to crystallize the creosote buildup, thus making it easier to clean.

will be making my own scraping bar since the one from CB comes in two sections that do not fit together correctly causing the joint to wobble. also the bar is HEAVY.

 
"let the machines do the work"

boilerman101

DDW evidently as a new CB gasser owner you are still trying to figure things out. For starters the hoe that came with your furnace is a compression fit so you need to pound the 2 sections together on a slab of concrete (what I used). They will snug up so tight that you will never get them apart and the joint section certainly will not wobble. I find it works well to scrape the sidewalls and corners. I can't help you with the you think it is heavy comment. After putting up more wood it will get lighter  :D. Even if you have a light heat load and furnace idles a lot it should never go out if you adjust the air pulse feature. I set the Firestar controller on my E2400 for a 50 sec air pulse happening every 15 or 20 minutes and it never goes out. Give that a try. I read in your previous posts you are trying to load firebox for days, that is not recommended when running gassers as it will build a lot of excess creosote inside firebox. I've found that less is more and creates less maintenance issues. I also get much hotter reaction chamber temps and can control coal bed depth easier. I typically get reaction chamber temps of 1,100 - 1,400 degrees. Shoot for 1-3" of coals over air charge tube. Did you put the XP wifi monitoring device on your Edge? I would not be without it and you can learn a lot from the recorded charts.

Logging logginglogging

Even with my old boiler, I found loading light produced a hot cleaner fire. I had no air pulsing features, it simply kicked on the blower when temps got low enough. With good wood it never went out, in fact I had shoveled out hot red coals into a bucket, cleaned the boiler and replaced the coals with some dry wood, and it would take right off without even restarting a fire. I imagine I will hit a learning curve with my new boiler as I did with my first one as well.

kvacresfarm

I am getting ready to install a Central boiler at our place and I had some questions about the downdraft furnace system. We are living in a single wide with a downdraft furnace just like yours. Return air wall filter on top, a-coil on top, then the blower, then the electric furnace guts. The a-coil has a drain pan which is plastic. Should I be putting the heat-exchanger between the a-coil and the blower, or on top of it? I didn't see an a-coil in the original post. 

DDW_OR

we do not have AC in our home, just heat.

electric furnace before heating coil







heating coil added with silicon glue  


 


added plywood to make the air go through the heating coil before it goes into the blower



 

 


the area above the electric furnace is just an empty box.
this box "fills" with hot air when the blower is not blowing.
thus providing instant hot air when required.
and provides a passive radiant heat.


"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

Maybe a sheet metal shop could come up with a solution for your situation?

stacking coils on top of each other will restrict air flow

A = blower
B = OWB heating coil
C = Air conditioner coil
D = drip pan
E =solid baffle to direct air flow through either the heat or AC coil

move baffle E from AC coil slot to OWB coil slot



 
"let the machines do the work"

kvacresfarm

Problem is that it's a triangular a-coil and not a typical rectangular exchanger. Without purchasing a new exchanger for the a/c side, I don't think your baffled setup would work. I've read of folks raising their unit and putting the exchanger on the bottom of the furnace, but that might not work well. 

DDW_OR

Quote from: kvacresfarm on November 09, 2018, 01:54:43 PM
Problem is that it's a triangular a-coil and not a typical rectangular exchanger. Without purchasing a new exchanger for the a/c side, I don't think your baffled setup would work. I've read of folks raising their unit and putting the exchanger on the bottom of the furnace, but that might not work well.
talk to Central boiler, or the person that sold it to you.
second choice is an AC installer.
Good Luck.
"let the machines do the work"

boilerman101

The Central Boiler site and owners install manuals have many diagram drawings of various furnace install applications on it. If you have a downdraft furnace there is a drawing that shows mounting the hot water exchanger between the blower fan and air coil which makes sense. The A-coil could not risk freeze up the water exhanger in the summer months when water is not moving that way. Most water to air coils do not create much air flow resistance so I would not worry about greatly reduced duct airflow. I've found the CB install diagrams to be very helpful and they work when followed.

E Yoder

We put water coils under the A coil quite often in double-wides. If it freezes up its probably low in refrigerant.
HeatMaster dealer in VA.
G7000

kvacresfarm

Do you think the water to air heat exchanger will get hot enough to damage the air conditioning coils plastic condensing tray? It's one of those units with the plastic drip tray.

DDW_OR

i have a cheap indoor/outdoor thermometer connected to the coil and the temp is usually around 180 deg F

so melting plastic, no. deforming it, yes.
"let the machines do the work"

hedgerow

Quote from: kvacresfarm on November 12, 2018, 06:59:09 AM
Do you think the water to air heat exchanger will get hot enough to damage the air conditioning coils plastic condensing tray? It's one of those units with the plastic drip tray.
I have three furnaces in my house all up flow furnaces with water to air heat exchanger's in them and two are set up with the exchanger under the A coil and one above the A coil and I haven't had any issues with damage to the plastic A coil pans. They have been in service for 10 years. 
  

kvacresfarm

Are they below the a coil with spacing or is the heat exchanger touching the a coil? I've seen them installed like that. A friend of mine has the central 5036 boiler and the heat exchanger is mounted in the plenum directly below the a coil, but it looks like there is 2-3" of spacing between the exchanger and a coil.

J 5

 I have run 2 furnaces with A coils about 4 inches above  the heater cores for 19 years with no melting or deforming of the plastic trays. Temp at max is usually 160 -165 f .
              J 5

MNBobcat

The furnace HX should always be plumbed so that the return line on the HX is where the cool air enters the HX coil.  

The return line is going to be the lower temperature water.  You want that side of the coil to pre-warm the air passing through the coil and and you want the air leaving the coil going into the home should be as hot as possible.  

So you want the air exit side of the coil to be the side that the hot input pex connects to.  This is opposite of the way most people plumb these things, but it's the most efficient.

Pre-warm the air and then raise the air to the hottest possible temperature before it leaves the HX and goes into the house.

DDW_OR

"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

I did some searching and found this for install on an AC a-coil

install-Central-Boiler-standard-heat-pump-c240
"let the machines do the work"

hedgerow

Quote from: kvacresfarm on November 12, 2018, 05:29:54 PM
Are they below the a coil with spacing or is the heat exchanger touching the a coil? I've seen them installed like that. A friend of mine has the central 5036 boiler and the heat exchanger is mounted in the plenum directly below the a coil, but it looks like there is 2-3" of spacing between the exchanger and a coil.
The two I have that are under the A coil are a couple of inches under the A coil pans as later model LP furnaces were installed and were shorter than the original furnaces were so there was room to install them there but not room above the A coil. Hasn't bothered the A coils in 10 years. 

DDW_OR

Quote from: DDW_OR on September 08, 2016, 05:57:19 PM
will be posting what i do and what i should Not do.
Now for what i did wrong. Very wrong
First  - too big of furnace for just house and water heater
Second - long burns, more than 1 day, mostly a slow smolder = LOTS OF CREOSOTE
Third - inadequate cleaning, tight fit getting into the firebox, I am 52, 250 pounds, 5 ft 10 in


 

 


the platform is the crate the riding mower came in, Very handy for lots of things.
"let the machines do the work"

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