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Rolling Bands flat

Started by dgdrls, September 07, 2016, 06:47:12 PM

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dgdrls

Just curious,
Any of you bandmill sawyers rolling your bands flat or asking for that service prior to setting and sharpening?

best
D


Ox

K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Chuck White

Nope, I don't feel it's beneficial.

I get around 15 sharpenings on each band and the last one cuts about the same as the first!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

YellowHammer

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Percy

My blades tend to become "unflat" after a few sharpenings. To the point that if I dont compensate with set, my blades will dive. Its on this board somewheres but it goes like, if you put a strait edge on the inside of a tensioned older band where it will not interfere with a set tooth, it will rock front to back. If you put the same strait edge on the outside of the same band in the same fashion, you will notice you can see a bit of light in the middle of the contact area. I never did get myself a band roller, which Ive heard works very well. I have just learned to compensate with setting the inside teeth a tad more than the outer teeth(.005). Works for me.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

ozarkgem

no. I wonder if blade width makes a difference. I can't see a 1 1/4 blade cupping much.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ladylake


I  think the width does make a difference as my 1 - 1/4 cut real good without rolling,  1- 1/2 might need rolling.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

petefrom bearswamp

I send them to resharp.
Dont know what they do regarding rolling.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

YoungStump

I run 1 1/2" bands and check the flatness out of the box and before every sharpening and roll whenever necessary. It does make a big difference in blade performance I consider rolling bands just as important as sharpening and setting.
Echo Enterprises 45HD2 production series band mill, Cook's Edger, sawing mostly pallet cants, rr ties, and grade lumber.

Deese

2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

ozarkgem

Quote from: YoungStump on September 08, 2016, 09:25:56 AM
I run 1 1/2" bands and check the flatness out of the box and before every sharpening and roll whenever necessary. It does make a big difference in blade performance I consider rolling bands just as important as sharpening and setting.
[/quote
How do you check for flatness? How much do they cup before you roll them. I wonder about 2" bands? About how many use's before you have to roll them.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

drobertson

I figure it like this, a steak on the back yard grill is and taste great!  Add some salt, pepper, maybe garlic? Much better, same with bands, they form under stress, and yes one can power through a cut and  call the variation due to stress in the log(like most) have, or get a flat cuttinging band and be done with it,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

4x4American

I have a nail on my wall in my saw shop that has blades on it that need to be rolled, I don't have a roller yet, but a guy I know is making me one up. 

I also run 1-1/2" bands.

The way that I understand it, if the blade has a crown on the side that touches the guide rollers, the guides are holding onto a wet fish.  It needs to be flat, or have a slight dish on the side that touches the roller guides so that they have two points of contact to keep that blade sawing true.

The best way to check if it needs rolled, is to check the blade on the saw at tension, take you a new razor, and set it across the blade in the gullet on the inside of the blade (side that touches guides).  Take a light and shine it from the other side.  If you see any light in the center of the blade, it needs to be rolled flat.

This is all stuff I learned from people I met at Jake's project who are way smarter and more experienced than me.  I'm just passing it onward.
Boy, back in my day..

YoungStump

Quote from: ozarkgem on September 08, 2016, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: YoungStump on September 08, 2016, 09:25:56 AM
I run 1 1/2" bands and check the flatness out of the box and before every sharpening and roll whenever necessary. It does make a big difference in blade performance I consider rolling bands just as important as sharpening and setting.
[/quote
How do you check for flatness? How much do they cup before you roll them. I wonder about 2" bands? About how many use's before you have to roll them.

I check flatness with the blade removed from the mill by holding a razor blade across the inside of the band and shining a flashlight from the back. You want the band either flat or slightly dished in the center.
As far as how often they need rolled it varies but the majority of the WoodMizer bands I have been getting the last while need rolled right out of the box then again after the first run, after that I can often get several sharpenings before needing to roll again.
You would think a band would tend to cup around the blade wheels as it is runs but the opposite happens and blade tends to form a hump on the inside.
Echo Enterprises 45HD2 production series band mill, Cook's Edger, sawing mostly pallet cants, rr ties, and grade lumber.

4x4American

Quote from: YoungStump on September 08, 2016, 11:00:08 PM

You would think a band would tend to cup around the blade wheels as it is runs but the opposite happens and blade tends to form a hump on the inside.


It amazes me how that works! 
Boy, back in my day..

redprospector

I use 1 1/2" bands on the mill I built, and have rolled them for years.
I couldn't saw a straight line to save my life after a few sharpenings. I started rolling them, and problem solved.
I'm using 1 1/4" bands on my B-20. I haven't used it enough to decide if it's necessary on the narrower band. But that will change pretty soon...when I remove myself from state forestry's contractor list.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

JustinW_NZ

I set before sharpen every time without fail.
I too see the problem with 'skimming' wood causing a loss of set on one side.

I hadn't heard the bands slowly gaining crown like that but I run the 1 1/2" bands on the smaller band wheels and sharpen until they are so thin they loose beam strength (I think) and start getting wavy. (and run out of wheel at that point)
I do notice they often get consistent un-even set but hadn't paid much attention.

I cut mostly hardwoods, very hard and abrasive ones currently..

Interesting info otherwise guys  :P

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

kelLOGg

Quote from: 4x4American on September 08, 2016, 06:04:36 PM
I have a nail on my wall in my saw shop that has blades on it that need to be rolled, I don't have a roller yet, but a guy I know is making me one up. 

Can you post a pic and/or details on this roller when it is done? CookSaw swears by the need for rolling but I can't justify the cost so I am interested in options.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

4x4American

Quote from: kelLOGg on September 09, 2016, 06:12:28 AM
Quote from: 4x4American on September 08, 2016, 06:04:36 PM
I have a nail on my wall in my saw shop that has blades on it that need to be rolled, I don't have a roller yet, but a guy I know is making me one up. 

Can you post a pic and/or details on this roller when it is done? CookSaw swears by the need for rolling but I can't justify the cost so I am interested in options.
Bob

If I remember, I will! 
Boy, back in my day..

customsawyer

The flatter your blade is the more stable it will be on your blade guide rollers. When your blade is more stable it will allow you to cut more accurate lumber faster.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

ozarkgem

Quote from: customsawyer on September 09, 2016, 08:39:27 AM
The flatter your blade is the more stable it will be on your blade guide rollers. When your blade is more stable it will allow you to cut more accurate lumber faster.
Are you using 1 1/2" blades?
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

xlogger

I was told to turn your blade inside out and run it for a few minutes tight and that might work, I've not done it so I'm not sure.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

bandmiller2

I have been curious about band rolling for some time, being a frugal Yankee (spelled cheap)I haven't come up with the coin to buy one. I run 1 1/2" bands and get many many  sharpening's from them, when their ground down to 1 1/4" they start to dive I snap a hand salute and dumpsterize them. I may build a roller and have noticed some of the metal bending tool at Harbor Freight could be modified  to that end. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

kelLOGg

Quote from: bandmiller2 on September 09, 2016, 08:49:15 PM
I have been curious about band rolling for some time, being a frugal Yankee (spelled cheap)I haven't come up with the coin to buy one. I run 1 1/2" bands and get many many  sharpening's from them, when their ground down to 1 1/4" they start to dive I snap a hand salute and dumpsterize them. I may build a roller and have noticed some of the metal bending tool at Harbor Freight could be modified  to that end. Frank C.

Keep us posted on that, Frank. I'm following this with interest.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

customsawyer

I am currently using 1½" blades. I have also used 1¾" blades in the past. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

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