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Started by WV Sawmiller, August 22, 2016, 09:43:51 PM

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WV Sawmiller

   Okay - I'm running a couple months behind on this topic but I just got the pictures from my photographer wife. She's been busy with weddings and teaching classes and such but I finally got the pictures of a local lumber yard we stopped at back in June in Mexico. We were down there taking wedding pictures at her 2nd cousin's wedding and squeezed in a couple days out in town afterwards. We were staying at a resort south of Cancun and this shop was near the town of Tuluum.

   The owner showed me some pictures on his cell phone of projects he had done such as decks and buildings. He advised he mostly sells lumber and building materials to other builders in the area. He told me his poles and thatch comes from the local market but some of his logs are transported in from hundreds of miles away.

  The man was surprised to see an American tourist stopping to look over and interested in his operation but he was very outgoing and it was a pleasure to talk with him.



 
We spotted these logs and cants along the side of the road on the way to see some of the local ruins.



 
These were some finished planks he had sawed and had leaning against a tree on display or air drying.

   

 
These were cants from hardwood logs brought from about 600 km (about 350-400 miles) away. I did not get to see the lumber being cut but as I understood from the owner/operator he used a CSM to cut his lumber.



 
Assorted lumber laying around the yard.



 
Me talking to the owner in his lumber yard. Evidently he lived next door and had a chicken pen in the back behind the lumberyard.


   More of the lumber yard and chicken pen.


 
More of the same


 

This is a more detailed picture of the warehouse with some small peeled poles. These poles are sold to the local customers to use as trusses in their homes and other buildings.



 

This is a better view of the warehouse roof and mezzanine showing how the poles are used. This building has a corrugated metal rood while many have thatched roofs.



 

Shown here are bundles of straw used for roofing and sometimes as walls although I can't remember seeing any used except for roofing in this area. There is a real art to installing thatch roofs. Like with our shingles you start at the bottom and overlap in layers to the top so rain runs off without leaking through. The big disadvantage using thatch roofing is it has to be replaced every few years. A couple of advantages is that is it available of the price of generally very cheap local labor and it is cooler than corrugated metal.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

jaygtree

nice pics and very interesting. thanks. jg
i thought i was wrong once but i wasn't.   atv, log arch, chainsaw and ez boardwalk jr.

newoodguy78

Thank you for sharing. Did you happen to find out what kind of hardwood it is? Certainly has a beautiful color to it.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: newoodguy78 on August 22, 2016, 10:18:43 PM
Thank you for sharing. Did you happen to find out what kind of hardwood it is? Certainly has a beautiful color to it.

   Sorry but I did not recognize the type of wood. It looks sort of like a cross between walnut and cherry. You are right - it was beautiful wood.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

wvwoodbutcher

That's an impressive amount of work for a chainsaw mill. Nice looking lumber too. Thanks for sharing.
Hudson Oscar 36

Kbeitz

Wow... Reading this thread I felt like I was back in Dominican Republic.
I could match picture to picture..


Air drying...



 

Log peelings...



 

You stated that the straw has to be replaced every few years.
This is my Uncles farm and this roof is 40 years old and I was under
it in a rain storm and found no leaks.




 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

WV Sawmiller

kbeitz,

   I saw air drying lumber like you show in your picture while I was working and living in Cameroon in west central Africa. I see the thatch on your uncle's roof is palm while what I saw in Mexico was grass. I have seen both used and even old millet stalks after the harvest. In Cameroon I watched people making panels by splitting a palm frond then folding the leaves all to one side and pegging them with small sticks about like toothpicks. These panels were usually about 5-8 feet long and 14-16 inches wide. They were laid like big shingles to shed the water. Sometimes they were used as walls but mostly as roofing.

    I wonder if your uncle's roof was a single original layer or if he had added on over the years. I saw that done too sort of like people here adding several layers of shingles without removing the original ones.

   The round huts in Africa when thatched came to a peak and the top bundle was tied tight and often an old clay pot was inverted and put on top to seal the hole. I have even seen old chamber pots used for that purpose.

   I love watching people in remote areas building their homes out of whatever materials are available. I have seen them built with clay blocks that were packed into forms about like our concrete cinderblocks and allowed to air dry. I have seen upright poles set in the corners then bamboo or long split raffia palms woven between and packed tight with small stones then coated/covered with clay and allowed to dry. The Massai in Kenya do something similar and the women weave brush then pack it with fresh cow mature. They do this in layers over time allowing the lower areas to dry and support the upper portions. I suspect this is because it takes them time to get enough brush and fresh cow manure collected. When dry they are weather proof and no odor (Then again - how would you know as they are built in/as part of the wall of a kraal or big cattle pen, 1/3 of the house holds the calves at night for protection from predators and so the women can milk the cows in the morning and the center area inside the walls up to an acre may be a foot deep in dry fluffy cow manure almost like dry sawdust). The Himba people in Namibia use cow manure mixed with sand and when finished you'd swear it was poured in place concrete. We stopped at a village in Ethiopia and every kid was carrying a fresh cow pie in a pan, pot or on a piece of bark/board. When we got to the school we found they were re-plastering one of the classrooms. The cow manure was poured in one spot, water added and one little boy was trampling it with a big smile on his face as it came out between his toes. When the consistency was right it was plastered on the walls. In Mongolia the gers (often called yurts) were built with walls panels like lattice that could be collapsed for transport, a wagon wheel looking affair at the roof held by 2 big Ts and poles in holes in the "wagon wheel" that reached the cross at the top of the panels and was tied with rawhide. The door and frame were transported as a unit. When erected the whole affair from walls and roof were covered in felt about 3/4" thick and woven from camel, yak, wool and horsehair. It was well insulated and could be packed and transported on camels, yaks and horses.

    I guess our ancestors did the same thing whether building log cabins, stone cottages or soddys out on the Great Plains.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WDH

Air drying lumber in Brazil.



 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

WV Sawmiller

WDH,

   I saw lumber stacked and air drying like that in Okinawa too when I was stationed there. I wonder how long it takes to dry like that and how much warp and cupping they get in the process.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

qbilder

Nice pics & story! The red lumber shown is what they call cedro, which is a type of cedar. It's pretty hard & heavy for what we know as cedar, though. The dark stuff is chechen, similar to a rosewood. I visited a yard in the same region years ago, although in town, and bought some of the nicely figured stuff. He planed and edged it all, then cut to lengths to resemble components of a table so that it would get approved by customs.
God bless our troops

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: qbilder on August 24, 2016, 08:19:50 AM
Nice pics & story! The red lumber shown is what they call cedro, which is a type of cedar. It's pretty hard & heavy for what we know as cedar, though. The dark stuff is chechen, similar to a rosewood. I visited a yard in the same region years ago, although in town, and bought some of the nicely figured stuff. He planed and edged it all, then cut to lengths to resemble components of a table so that it would get approved by customs.
qbuilder,

   When you brought it back did you have to seal it first? I looked into buying some wide mahogany boards in Okinawa when I was stationed there and found I would have to paint or varnish or otherwise seal it first to bring it into the USA.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

qbilder

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 26, 2016, 03:00:52 PMWhen you brought it back did you have to seal it first? I looked into buying some wide mahogany boards in Okinawa when I was stationed there and found I would have to paint or varnish or otherwise seal it first to bring it into the USA.

No I didn't have to. I don't recall all the protocol as it's been several years ago. There was a language barrier and I am ever cautious, so I had the concierge service from our resort handling the details. However it was dictated, in order for the wood to be legal for export/import, it had to be processed into a finished product, no longer raw material. Customs didn't bat an eye, so I assume everything was correct.       
God bless our troops

timcosby

that beach there at the tullum ruins was to die for!

venice

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 24, 2016, 08:01:12 AM
I wonder how long it takes to dry like that and how much warp and cupping they get in the process.

Good morning.

The vertical drying is ideal for areas with high humidity and or lots of rain. The rain runs of and the airflow is a lot better than in a stack. Since the airflow is better, i guess that the initial drying is a little faster than in a stack. Stacking and putting them under a roof in an moist enviroment would probably lead to mold.

Cupping will be the same like sticker stacked, warping comes mainly from internal stress. Should be pretty much to the same amount like in a stack.

venice

WV Sawmiller

Venice,

   I thought a big feature in sticker staking was to keep the weight on the lumber beneath to help keep them straight and not cup until they had dried and set. That's why we advice putting weight on top to keep those high on the stack with less weight from cupping.

   I wonder if there are comparisons between horizontal vs vertical stacks? I am sure it would vary species and drying speed. I'd compare to square bales vs round bales when cutting and storing hay.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

In the late 40's, I remember seeing the lumber for our home vertically "stacked" and dried.  Periodically my Granddad would go through and turn it end over end.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

venice

Sawmiller,

there is not much you could do about cupping since it is drying related because of the different shrinking rates of early/ late wood. This can be seen best in flat sawn boards.

A properly strapped or weighed stack will help to keep your boards flat and straight that is thrue. But it helps with warping or twisting only to some extend.

Mr.Magic,

back in the 80s when no kiln dried wood was available to us, we bought green from the mill and turned over every stack once a year as well. What a fun this was...  ;)

venice

venice

Went into the bookshelf and according to a book one of my teachers at the trade school wrote, the main differences are the storage space that is needed and he claims that the vertical storing saves time and effort since no stickering or stickers are needed. Printed 1980  :P

He does not mention any differences in drying time. Only that this method is good for wood with high moisture content. Kinda supporting my guess that the better airflow helps with getting rid of the free water and therefore avoiding mold.

Maybe Dr. Gene @GeneWengert-WoodDoc has some better sources on the topic.

Reading my old schoolbooks is a bit like time traveling. Lot of things i allready forgot.  ::)

Anyone interested in another exotic way of drying wood like the drying swing?  ;D

venice

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