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Hemlock

Started by Glenn1, August 22, 2016, 08:00:32 PM

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Glenn1

I was visiting a log yard and they had hemlock logs for sale.  It looks like pretty wood but was wondering about how it dries in the kiln?
Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Eastern hemlock is known to frequently have bacterial shake or shelling in the butt log.  Further, as a result of the bacteria, when drying, there are wet pockets.  These are very high MC areas while the surrounding wood is 10% MC.  The risk is either long drying or the dry areas dry too much and then get brittle with machining defects.  Because of these quality issues, which means losses and high cost, eastern hemlock is seldom sawn into lumber.  Not all logs are infected, but the majority of butt logs are.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Glenn1

Thank you,  I will pass on the hemlock.
Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

Den Socling

One time I needed some wet wood to test a new vac kiln. The mill was cutting only Hemlock at the time so I brought some back to the shop. As you can see in the pictures, it dried OK for me.



 



 



 



 

Glenn1

Den,

If I could swing it, I bet it would dry just fine for me to.  Are you showing off?    ;D
Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

Den Socling

To be honest, it was just junk I loaded to test the kiln. No special drying schedule. Started the kiln, shut it off and Hemlock was dry.  :D

Bruno of NH

It looks great as a rustic floor but can shake and splinter . You have to pick you wood planks wisely when laying them .
The floor I layed was circle sawn put down rough then sanded to look skip planed .
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Denny

I dry low grade hemlock 4x4s that we use to make shipping pallets. Only do about 20,000 feet per year, so I'm no expert on drying hemlock, but I found the stuff to be pretty forgiving to dry.  I've been using either the T11-E5 schedule if I'm in a hurry or the T11-C3 schedule if I have some more time. Either schedule does the job will little degrade. Now I'm not drying it down to 6-8%, Im finishing them in between 15 to 20% MC.  Both of these schedules starts at 150 degrees and the thick 4x4's don't seem to mind.


EDIT; 4X4's not 2x4's

Peter Drouin

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on August 23, 2016, 04:30:16 AM
losses and high cost, eastern hemlock is seldom sawn into lumber.  Not all logs are infected, but the majority of butt logs are.




No one told me, That Eastern Hemlock  is junk. I guess I should stop selling it. :D :D :D


  

  

  
Look at this junk. :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

thecfarm

I sawed out hemlock for a horse run in,on my own land. Logs was fine,had very little shake,maybe a log or two.
Than I built a Women Cave and had problems with black in the logs. I was cutting in the same area that the other logs came out of.I went up into the woods more and all was well.
I feel hemlock gets a bad rap.
I want to build a sugar shack. Hemlock will be used.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Denny

FYI Eastern Hemlock is the state tree of Pennsylvania.

Glenn1

Pennsylvanians have good taste.  It has to be pretty good lumber.   Right?  (I am not being sarcastic,  have lots of friends in PA)

Just wondering why they picked hemlock instead of cherry.  From all that I have heard, Pennsylvania puts out the nicest black cherry.
Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

Bruno of NH

My BIL has hemlock live edge siding on his house looks real good .
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Because the bacteria move slowly, we seldom see damage in butt logs younger than 75 years.  But, the wetter the site, the more likely the bacteria will be active.  The first indication, in general, that they are present is the higher MC when green.  Then sometimes a peculiar odor is noted and the wood looks translucent.  As the infected area ages (the bacteria continue their activity), then we will likely see shake and wet pockets after drying, plus a stronger odor.  The high MC means the log will not float in water...called sinker logs...and these logs are now found on the lake and river bottoms.

The bacteria are usually not up the entire log, as they move up the stem maybe 1" or so a year.  They also tend to be in only part of the wood...a quadrant...rather than the entire cross section.  So, we can get some good lumber in younger trees, but as the tree gets older, the damage increases and profit dwindle quickly.  As stated earlier, upper logs are seldom affected.

Historically speaking, it is not uncommon to see pictures of logging of old hemlock stands in the past that were harvested using "high stumps" to leave the infected wood in the forest and not take it to the mill.  (They did not know about bacterial, but they knew the butt was defective.)  In fact, real old stands were often cut, the bark removed for tannic acid used for leather tanning, and the woody stem left in the woods.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Den Socling

That's right, Gene. I've read that when trees were plentiful in PA, Hemlock was cut and peeled and the giant logs were left to rot. Not until the pine became hard to find did they start moving Hemlock to the mills.

Peter Drouin

All true, WoodDoc, smiley_thumbsup
All one can do is have the ability to tell a good log from a bad one. No matter the species. ;)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

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