Flooring

[clintnelms]

The wife wants hardwood or laminate flooring installed in the living room, kitchen, and hallway. The living room and kitchen are open so basically one large room. We've got carpet now and vinyl in the kitchen. We've also got two English Bulldogs and a cocker spaniel. We're looking at about 600 square feet of flooring. So for laminate we're between $1000 to $2000. Laminate was my thoughts at first due to the dogs scratching the floor. However I don't have that kind of money right now, but I do have oak or SYP I could mill into flooring. Still new at milling, but thought I might could give it a shot. I know Oak would be a harder wood to use than SYP and may not get scratched up as much. But I haven't had very good luck milling oak. But I also haven't tried milling it into flooring either. Kind of wanted to get y'alls inputs and see if it's something I should try. What draws me to milling my own flooring is the thought of the accomplishment and having something to look at that I did myself with lumber from my own property. But at the same time I think I might be biting off more than I can chew. Thoughts?

[muggs]

I made my own oak flooring. What tools do you have to work with? Shaper?   Muggs

[clintnelms]

Just my sawmill, saws, hand tools, the usual. My brother in law is a cabinet builder and I'm thinking I might could get him to take the boards to his shop and finish the boards once dried. But that's if he can. Not sure if they'd let him. But also thought it might give me an excuse to tell the wife I'd have to have a planer and some other toys. Figured by the time I spent the money on flooring I could probably buy some of the equipment I'd need to finish them.

[clintnelms]

I read everything I could find on here last night about milling lumber for flooring, but didn't find a whole lot. From what I read I should cut it a little over an inch thick right? How wide and how long should I cut the boards? Just how hard is it to do your own flooring?

[cliffreaves]

I was told, but have not experienced this, that cupping is a problem if you go over 6".  If you're doing oak, are you able to quaternary saw it?

[woodman58]

I have been a hardwood floor installer for 32 years. In my opinion it would be your best bet to find someone with a 4 sided molder to mill you flooring. According to National hardwood flooring association any floor over 5" should be glued and nailed to prevent cupping.To do the routing yourself would take a long time. After planning to thickness you would have to route a tounge on one side, a grove on the other, and releif cuts on the underside to help prevent cupping. I know some will disagree with this process. but, in my opinion this is the best way to make a good floor. If you like real rustic you can do it without the relief cuts. If you use pine be sure and set the pitch.

[jaygtree]

a friend of mine made his own oak flooring and instead of tongue and grooving  he grooved both edges of each board and made splines. not sure how he nailed it down, must've been through an installed spline. the advantage of this is that it can all be done on a tablesaw.

[Den-Den]

I would consider the bare minimum of tooling for this job to be; jointer, planer and tablesaw.  A shaper with power feed would be a great addition.  It would still be a lot of work but you would be proud of the result.

[Brucer]

When I looked into this a few years ago (for a friend, not for me  ;D), I came across something interesting. If your flooring is edge grain it will:

• Expand and contract less.
• Have less tendency to cup.
• Have better wear resistance.

Any experienced flooring people, please add your thoughts.

[Satamax]

My opinion, if you haven't got the tools, haven't made any in the past. Ouch.

I like thick flooring. 30mm is good for a start. You end up with an inch thick flooring.

But you need a jointer and a planer. And a shaper at least.

I don't know about the milling time. But to make 600sqft of flooring, count three days i'd say, with the proper tools.

Make it out of oak. Remember that you have to spend money on the finish too.

But with your figure of 2000$ for laminate, you should be at least there buying secondhand machines too. And you need the room. And the electricity supply wich goes with it.

Mind you,  the machines will stay with you. So they're not a bad thing to get, if you have a sawmill.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Suggest you read this thread through:  https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,84781.0.html

I  won't repeat using router bits to make strip flooring.  It looks good until you try to lay it down and compare it to commercial products, the fit & tolerances aren't as good. Plus it's a huge amount of work.   Maybe if I had a shaper with stock feeder I'd be tempted again.  But probably just take my boards to someone with a 4 sided machine instead.

I saw a lot of rough flooring, always 1-1/8", except in a few cases where it all was quarter sawn then I talked them into 1-1/4.  Intention was for finished at 3/4".  One might have problems with matching thicker flooring to adjacent existing floors.   Width is a preference which brings with it different fastening techniques.

[kelLOGg]

I felled, sawed, air dried and kiln dried my oak flooring. Having lifted that tree enough, I took the lumber to a flooring plant for milling and T&Ging and then got someone to lay it for me. I didn't want to screw up the fine work. It ended up 3.5" wide and looks great. I still got the "milled it myself" feeling. It took over a year from felling to laying but it was worth the wait. Doing it this way all the tools I needed was a mill and kiln.

[Brad_bb]

So does a 4 sided shaper mean you don't have to joint the edges of the boards?  So If I'm hiring someone else to do the shaping operation, does that mean my prep will only have to be milling, drying, Sawing the edges to eliminate any crown from drying, and planing?  Or do I still need to joint the boards too?

[Satamax]

So does a 4 sided shaper mean you don't have to joint the edges of the boards?  So If I'm hiring someone else to do the shaping operation, does that mean my prep will only have to be milling, drying, Sawing the edges to eliminate any crown from drying, and planing?  Or do I still need to joint the boards too?

Well, the right answer is, it all depends.

How much stress does your wood have in the begining? How dry it is? How twisted or bowed?

If twisted or bowed, with stresses etc.

You can feed it to any 4 sided machine, the board will always be troublesome. But if you have a fair bit of matter to munch, and a jointer, you're sorted.  But not necessarily in all cases. If you have an inch of bow, this is just not possible.

The problem with 4 sided machines, is that they press on the wood, laying flat all bows before the board gets machined. Then the machined board gets back out, it either had way too much stress and the middles and ends are  machined a bit more. Or the board bends back in it's previous shape; and won't fit anywhere.

But if you feed perfectly straight and uniform boards to a four sided machine, then you're sorted.

And also all machines are not equal. You can have short machines, like the moretens/logosol. Or longer type of the roofing machines like Kupfermuhle. Don't expect those to be fantastic at straightening wood. Then the long type 4 5 or 6 arbors, which are four sided planer and one or two sided shaper. Usualy, those do a better job, but take a good 40 to 60sqft of  workshop floor, plus infeed and outfeed space. And the dust extraction needed is not a small one either.

[Brad_bb]

I'm just trying to understand what I can do to prep my boards with what I've got and what to have someone else do secondary.  I've got my mill, and my planer, and my table saw.  I probably should get a jointer, but I've been holding off because I'm going to move my shop soon and better off getting it after the move.  I'll probably have time to work on flooring during the winter so If I really need the jointer, I'll get it.

[Satamax]

Brad, i've been hanging around the internet for many years. First connexion to the MIMF was in 95.


What i have noticed about most of the Us based shops i see. Is often the lack of serious machines. Over here, in mainland western europe, even the small DIYers shops usually have at least a combination machine. Often a cast iron one.  Jointer planer on one side, where you lift the tables to plane. Then a shaper,which often can act as a tenonner. A saw arbor next to it on the table. You can also see a morticer on the end of the planer arbor.

I mean, your small shops are far ahead than us on the CNC machines in small shops. But it seems that cast iron jointers are a few and far between. This seems mad to me.

Even madder, UK, they have metal lathes and milling machines in most every DIYer shop. I can't remember having seen a single proper woodworking machine. And i did my city and guilds of guitarmaking in UK. I even have a friend, who did his woodworking apprenticeship in UK, and didn't know where to buy planned wood when he came to live in France. This is bonkers to me.


So by any means, get yourself a jointer. Get yourself a shaper. They are the basis of woodworking with the planer.

He"re's few pics of my workshop, so you see a French one. Most machines are ranging from 1949 for the dewalt, to mid late seventies for the most modern ones. Exept the morticer. With is a 90's machine.




Morticer, shaper with variable arbor speed and variable feed, a 1959 planer (thicknesser) with variable feed and three blades.




This is a vague view of the double sided jointer.


A vaguely better view with light.

Took me 20 years or so to gather all this. Modify, resell, buy some more etc.

[Kbeitz]

I'm just trying to understand what I can do to prep my boards with what I've got and what to have someone else do secondary.  I've got my mill, and my planer, and my table saw.  I probably should get a jointer, but I've been holding off because I'm going to move my shop soon and better off getting it after the move.  I'll probably have time to work on flooring during the winter so If I really need the jointer, I'll get it.

Check out Grizzly Tools jointers...

http://www.grizzly.com//jointers

[Satamax]

And i'll back up Kbeitz by saying, get at least a 12" Mine is a 16,5. I rarely wish for more. May be once or twice every year.

[Joe Hillmann]

That sounds like a huge job if you don't have the right tools or big enough tools.  Is your planer heavy duty or more like a lunch box style?

I would recommend doing a small amount, maybe enough for a closet to see just how much work it will be, then go from there.

I were to make flooring from lumber I cut my self I would plane it all one one side to get the right thickness.  Straight line it on the sawmill then face nail them rough side up onto the sub floor with an 3/32 inch gap between each board.  Then rent a floor sander to run over it really quickly just to even out any joints that aren't level but not enough to remove the rough saw marks.  Of course I realize a lot of people would like a more refined look than that.

[Satamax]

Rough sawn floors and wood panneling are the craze in euroland at the moment.  Posh people want that back to earth looks.

Circular saw sawn being the most expensive i think! ;D

[clintnelms]

Thanks for all the advice. Makes me rethink wanting to try and do it myself. I'll have to find out if my brother in law will be able to help me out at his cabinet shop. Otherwise it'll probably just be saving up for the box store stuff.

[ozarkgem]

Bass Pro in Springfield has some wide plank flooring in the men's clothing section. Maybe 8" wide with circle saw marks. How do they get it to lay flat? That is what I want to do on my next build. Goes down faster.

[Satamax]

Ozarkgem, these boards might be laminates. A layer of rough sawn wood glued to two layers of criss cross pine or whatever. Some are even clip on, like laminate flooring.

On this stuff for example, it's wood MDF wood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8hRjJ0nStU

I've fited some laminate from this brand in my bedroom lately. Dang easy to fit. 200sqft in 4 hours may be.


Some parquet flooring is glued too. With some neoprene, it doesn't cup!

[BigZ La]

Bass Pro in Springfield has some wide plank flooring in the men's clothing section. Maybe 8" wide with circle saw marks. How do they get it to lay flat? That is what I want to do on my next build. Goes down faster.

This is what I want, wide plank flooring. So how can it be done???

[Satamax]

Bass Pro in Springfield has some wide plank flooring in the men's clothing section. Maybe 8" wide with circle saw marks. How do they get it to lay flat? That is what I want to do on my next build. Goes down faster.

This is what I want, wide plank flooring. So how can it be done???

The first question, where do you want it?