Harvester Bar Help

[AlexHart]

If any of you folks can help on any of these issues I would greatly appreciate it.   Think of me as a dry sponge that wants to absorb as much info as possible

This is 3/4 pitch chain.   The loops are 49 drive links.   Yes that is correct and yes I am beginning to realize that is a very oddball loop but its 49 drive links for sure.   The bar needs to fit a Bell Super T and of the two I currently have one has absolutely nothing stamped on it and the other has " CSI  400638 hp " stamped on it.   

1) The bar.    Does that number mean anything to anybody and where do CSI bars in general come from?   I can't find anything on the internet.   I also have no idea how to measure it as far as saying its a "25 inch bar" or "32 inch bar" or whatever.   The whole thing is about 33 I think and its roughly 25 up to the front of the block that attaches it to the sawhead.  I'm not familiar with big processors and such but I'm sure that for my little Bell I definitely need the 3 mounting holes for the two clamp blocks to mount it.  I've invested in two sets of those already.   From perusing around web sites and catalogues I don't think that hole pattern is all that standard.   

2) The loops.   I can currently get them for about 60 bucks +/- but I'm wondering if there is a more efficient way (aka cheaper) to buy them if I knew where to go.    I also have a catalogue from Bailey's industrial division that offers "semi-chisel" cutters in 3/4 pitch that I'm suspicious might be more desirable than the chipper teeth or whatever its called that I currently have (the curved cutters like you find on homeowner chainsaws).   They offer loops in 45 and 52 drive links.    I'm wondering if I could get by with 52 drive links.... so I guess that's another question.   Could I?   Probably not right?     

3) Maintenance on the loops.   I have 6 total and now 2 of them I have managed to bend a drive link in each to the point that I need to replace 1 link so it'll go around in the bar groove.   I was at my uncle's last week who is a regular chainsaw dealer and after appraising the situation he has ordered a new spinner and anvil for 3/4 pitch as well as a sack of 25 replacement links so I think this part is somewhat under control but any of your guys experience at this stuff I would like to read as far as what you do to keep the loops and even straightening the bars and stuff to keep everything running.   I'd rather read some good hints than try to reinvent the wheel myself. 

Thanks guys.   

[Spartan]

Can't help you on the bar ID but what we do is buy our chains from a equipment parts shop around here that deals with forestry equipment.
We order them by pitch and driver number.  If they cant get the number you need just break them apart and remove the drivers you need, keep them around for spares or if you need to lengthen them later to fit a different bar.  Its good that you got the replacement link kit.  You will probably need them.
We keep a grinder on the job and run it with the generator to keep stuff sharp.  You can also break and repair chains without the kit.  Grind the rivets down almost flush and then pound them through with a hammer and punch.  Then when you fit them through the sidestrap you can hammer whats left of the rivet over the sidestrap.  If theres not enough just tack it real quick with a welder and grind off the slag.  Watch your tips they can start to seperate.
Worn rails can cause you cut at wierd angles and even bind, especially on the smaller trees.
I don't run our buncher but have countless hours fixing chains and bars with our operator.
Don't know if that helps any?

[Corley5]

I use a 10 ton press to straighten the bars for my Fabtek.  60 bucks per loop sounds pretty high.  I just got two 55 driver loops for $44 each.  I really don't like fixing saw chain  ;)   I rigged my spinner up so I can run it with a variable speed drill.  Works great just be sure to oil the rivet  ;D 

[AlexHart]

Nice... a few good tips already.

I need to come up with some kind of tactic to take twists out of the bars.   It's amazing to me how nasty these 3/4 pitch bars are.  Whatever they are made out of should be used for tank armor by the military.  I have a press and can straighten but twists have proven tough.  The one time I did it successfully I had twisted my 2nd bar on the one tree I got cocky and didn't check the other side so naturally it got caught in a root swell and twisted.   I was very upset and chagrined but after fixing it as best I could I took the time to switch the mounting blocks so it was flipped top to bottom.    Some weeks later I was taking down the last part of a triple maple and made the mistake of cutting it a bit lower.  When I cut it the end of the bar cut into what was left of the other side and as I was looking at it happen thinking maybe that wasn't going to end well the tree went over it got caught and went along for the ride.    Darned if it didn't totally "un-twist" and fix it straight as an arrow.

Only slight problem is that I'm not sure that can be reliably duplicated  

I've been sharpening the old school way with a hand file at home in the basement after work.   Sometimes it takes a good 20+ minutes a loop though.   I think I may have to ultimately break down and get a grinder but as a cheap stubborn yankee I'm going to resist as long as possible.  For the short term I think I might be better investing my resources in more loops, another bar or two, and some repair parts.     

[Corley5]

  If I had to file 3/4 by hand I'd buy new loops instead  ;) ;D  I've got a bunch of chains hanging around that need repairs.  More often than not I find it better to get a new chain and go back to work than spending time fixing them.  I figure at $50.00 per chain if everything is working good and the timber is decent and I'm processing 5 cords an hour on average I can pay for the new chain in less than 15 minutes.  I could spend at least that much time and usually more fixing up a single chain and still have a used chain.  New chains for some reason are more prone to injury : :D ;)   I can screw up a brand new one in the first 15 minutes of its life and a reworked one may last until it's dull and needs to be changed out

[AlexHart]

"I can screw up a brand new one in the first 15 minutes of its life"

haha!   Yeah but those first 15 minutes are pretty sweet though. 

Next time I'm out in Michigan I'm going to be sniffing around your scrap pile  

I agree in a sense.  I'm pretty scrimy but I wouldn't waste good working day time fiddling around with a hand file either.   But home at night is a different story.  I just take 3 or 4 with me, carry an extra in the machine, usually only change once a day if at all and fix them at home either when the mood strikes me or the dull pile gets bigger than the sharp pile.   

[Spartan]

Get a grinder worth the money for the time it would save, and put 2 extra sharpened chains in your harvester.  Can go all day if you are not in rocks.

Never been real good at getting twists out, or Tacos that pinch the rail.
Truth be told we've gotten pretty good at straightening bars with a D6 dozer and stumps.

[treeslayer2003]

alex i never had any luck fixin twisted bars/ bent i can do but a twist just never could get right. mine has .404
make sure your return pressure tank is charged up and make a front cut on trees that you can single cut but may be to heavy to get a good lift on. don't put to much lift on little trees or it will break off and grab the bar.

[BargeMonkey]

 Baileys has a bar tool for sale for a while in the bargain bin, "harvester bar rail tool" that actually works pretty good. Did 3/8-3/4 and has saved me in the woods a few times with pinched rails. I want nothing to do with CSI bars anymore, the tips are more money and the bars are prone to bend easier, I've got oregon bars I've used the same amount and beaten on and the CSI bars just don't hold up the same.
If a chain is 1/2 worn and maybe missing 1-2x teeth once she breaks it's not worth fixing. I try and keep 3-4x chains and 1 extra bar in the cab, usually change 1 chain a day if not in the rocks. I've got 3 machines now that take 3/4 and making my own, it's a few bucks cheaper and I would rather have the flexibility instead of keeping more stuff on hand, takes alot of wood to use up a 3/4 slasher chain. I've only got 1 bar I've never been able to fix with the press. I've got a fairly nasty gash just healing up now on my hand from grabbing a new chain out of the cab, new 3/4 is nasty stuff. I tried hand filing it and like Corley said it's not worth it. Buy a oregon 511ax grinder, I usually wait till I have 6-8x loops to sharpen and knock them out.
"Comstock logging supply" is one place to call, or "JS logging supply" is another, both have been good to deal with on bars and chain.

[Big Rooster]

I'm about in the same situation as you with a new head for my excavator that uses 3/4 pitch chain 42 driver.  I got 4 bars to start with ($400 a pop!!!whew)  I twisted one and sent it off to get fixed and 2 more I have bent the tips a bit and have just straightened them in the press and they seem to be holding.  It is insane the beating that 3/4 pitch takes.  I've had that bar bent in a U and it has sprung back to place.  Mine is on a directional felling dangle saw.

So the CSI bar was probably made via CSI cutting systems.  If no one makes them still Gem Manufacturing in Grangeville ID can make a pattern and sell you bars.  They also rebuild totaled out bars for around half price.  Check out their website for photos of before and after.

As for as hand filing.  Don't be a cheap SOB cause if you can afford a cutting head and base machine you can afford a good $400 grinder.  That will be 10 times as fast.  I've bent a few links to mostly on small trees at weird angles. 

Good luck.........and you better track down some more bars before you need them.

[ehp]

I just bought a bar from Gem for my multitek and the bar slots were in the wrong place , way to close to the tail of the bar . Mine saw takes 57 drives and I would of needed at least 59 if not 60 drivers to make it work and bar oil hole was in the wrong place . I just put the bar in the mill and machined it to fit .