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Building a cabin: buy lumber or buy a mill?

Started by ChugiakTinkerer, August 04, 2016, 07:56:02 PM

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ChugiakTinkerer

Hello FF folks,

I've lurked here off and on for a couple years and I now have reason to step out of the shadows.  My wife and I bought some land and started the process of building a cabin in the woods.  I've settled on a post frame design and have started to cost out the timbers and dimensional lumber.  Looking at all sawn lumber, from 8x12 timbers down to 1x6 tongue & groove paneling, I'm in the ballpark of $7,500.  I don't really have either, but if pressed I would say I have more time than money.  So I says to myself, "Self, why don't you just buy a hobby bandsaw mill and cut your own lumber?"

It certainly appears that I could save from $1K upwards of $4K depending on what I bought, but I know there would be plenty of other costs in addition to the time and effort of felling and hauling logs.  I have the advantage of being adjacent to much state land from which I can cut firewood and house logs free of charge.  Some background on the property and my plans are at http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=14235.0

I'm still a working fool and have no illusions of wanting to mill for coin.  I'm just considering a small mill for building a cabin and the inevitable outbuildings that I haven't even allowed for in my cost estimate, such as tool shed, generator shed, sauna, etc.  My milling would be weekends only on our property, and probably all of that will be in the winter.

I'll be looking at white spruce which grows in the area up to about 24" max.  In fact a potential down side would be that I can't find enough big trees to mill up my timbers.  I'm pretty confident that I could get all the 8"x8"x18' timbers I need, but the 8x10 and 8x12 could be hard to come by.  Even if I have to buy the biggest timbers from a local mill, I'd still be ahead costs wise, as long as I don't value my time.   :'(


Did I mention that this is a remote property in Alaska?  We haul everything in by snowmobile in the winter.  Access in the summer is by float plane.  So a mill that lends itself to being towed by a snowmobile is a big plus.  In fact, the Woodland Mills 722 with a couple of track extensions seems like it would be perfect.  Current pricing shows me out the door with some goodies and shipping at just over $3K.  I know there are plenty of other options and possibly some good deals to be had in the used market.  I've been looking online and the pickings in Alaska are slim. 

So what things don't I know about logging and milling that makes this an impractical idea?  Winter logging seems like the way to go, but I have no clue about milling when it's 20F or colder.  My back of the envelope estimate for the cabin is 7800 board feet of sawn lumber (hope I didn't lose a decimal point).  Is it reasonable to expect to mill that over the course of a couple months if milling is limited to maybe 8 hours a week?  Or will milling eat up so much of my time, time that could be better spent building a cabin?

I appreciate any input you experienced folks wish to offer.  One other thing to mention, this is in a remote area where there is no permit authority.  Hence no requirement for graded lumber.  I'll be free to use whatever I mill and it's on me to make sure I'm using the right wood for the job.

You all are great sports to stay with me this far.  Here's a picture from a moonlit ride on Lake Louise, just a few miles from our property.




Woodland Mills HM130

Kbeitz

Another BIG expence would be some kind of tractor...
But when your finished with it all you could resale everything.
Just looks cold up there...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

WDH

Sounds like a good plan to me.  With the mill, you will be able to build all that stuff. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

ozarkgem

Welcome to the forum. I would go for the mill if you can afford it. Think about this you can sell it when your a done and probably not lose that much money on it. Say you got 1000 less than you paid for it that is pretty cheap building materials. Course you have blade and fuel cost to figure in. You are doing what I wanted to do but I had some out of the blue health concerns pop up that I knew nothing about. So that dream is gone. Good luck and keep us posted . That snow looks pretty good since heat index is 107 as we speak.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Magicman

I don't feel that I am qualified to give you any advice but I admire your plans.  Welcome to the Forestry Forum, ChugiakTinkerer. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

thecfarm

I build with my own lumber. Cut the trees,clean up the mess, and saw the lumber and do the building. Some come and see my progress and wonder why it takes me so long. Some say they could build 2 to my one.  ::)  I could too if I called the lumber yard and had them drop off what I needed.   ::) The "talkers" never seem to want to speed the progress up by helping either. It does take more time to do all the above. AND ALOT more work too. AND time.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Den-Den

Is this decision based just on cost or does the idea of "milled the lumber and built it myself" have value to you?  You should be $$ ahead if you get a mill and saw the lumber yourself but those dollars may not be a lot per hour of work.  When you add in cost saved for future building projects and/or resale of the mill, it gets better.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

WV Sawmiller

C T,

   If you have the upfront cash I'd be tempted to buy the hobby mill then sell at the end of the project (If you can stand to part with it by then) largely because of the personal satisfaction of cutting your own lumber for your home. Another option you might investigate is having someone come cut for you. I don't see anybody here on FF who does custom sawing in Alaska but visited the WM site and there were several. Don't know how close they are or prices for your area but might be worth checking. Couldn't hurt. Other sponsors/mill makers may have a network to link you up with their customer like WM does. You can check with them. All I've ever talked to have been real nice to deal with.

   Good luck and keep us informed.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Chuck White

 Welcome to the Forestry Forum, ChugiakTinkerer.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ianab

QuoteAnother BIG expence would be some kind of tractor...

I think he'd be looking for a log arch with skis and use a snow mobile to skid logs? That's practical with the smaller logs he's talking about and good terrain.

So there's nothing impossible about the plan. Need to learn a few new skills of course, but it's one of the simpler mills to learn, and smaller spruce are pretty straight forward to log.

You would have more experience than most of us about working at -20F. I tend to try and stay inside if it's gets down to +20F  :D

I'd think it wouldn't be too bad cutting and hauling the logs in the snow as you are moving and can suit up for the conditions. But milling and
building in those conditions sounds pretty miserable. I'd plan on cutting and hauling the logs while things are frozen, then start the milling and building once things warm up a bit.

I guess it's what's more valuable to you. Time or cash? It's quite a lot of work to do all the logging and milling before you even start the build. But the satisfaction of doing that is something you can't buy, and I can certainly see how having your own mill would be handy later on in such a remote area.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

carykong

You have the time,right? Get the mill. Good luck!

DDW_OR

get the mill, then mill what you need. then mill more for future use, then double it.
house, outhouse, smoke house, food storage to keep bears and ? ? ? out,

and get a 4x4 tractor with a PTO logging winch.

then if you need to get your $$ back you should have no problem since as you stated, "the pickings in Alaska are slim"

i am surprised these old pickup snowmobiles do not have a modern day equivalent
http://gomotors.net/photos/38/5b/ford-model-t-snow-machine-conversion_d19d4.jpg?i
"let the machines do the work"

Brucer

I followed your link and had a look at your project. Looks like a challenge (location-wise).

If your logs are straight, you can saw an 8x8 from a 12" top; an 8x10 from a 13-1/2" top, and an 8x12 from a 15" top.

For the volume of lumber, a small hobby mill will probably do the job you want if you aren't in a terrible rush. I see you were originally looking at some long timbers. Many of the push-type hobby mills can be extended almost forever, as long as you buy enough track. A lot of members on this forum have built their own extensions.

Sawing in really cold weather has its special challenges. Sawing generates some heat so you may find your sawdust freezes in the cut behind the blade. That can "glue" the wood right back together again. Wide blades will often wander in frozen wood, so you should be sticking to 1-1/4" wide blades (which is usually standard on the small mills). I've also had problems with the blade trying to follow the sapwood when the log was partially frozen.

Keep in mind that you will probably have to sharpen your blades, or have them sharpened. Think about where/how you're going to do this. You might just be able to saw the volume you're talking about with a single box of blades (if the logs are clean). Make sure you don't drag the logs through mud and then try to saw them in the winter :(. Having a second box of blades on hand is good insurance. That will give you enough sawing time to figure out how fast you're going through them.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: DDW_OR on August 05, 2016, 12:34:56 AM
get the mill, then mill what you need. then mill more for future use, then double it.
house, outhouse, smoke house, food storage to keep bears and ? ? ? out,

and get a 4x4 tractor with a PTO logging winch.

then if you need to get your $$ back you should have no problem since as you stated, "the pickings in Alaska are slim"

i am surprised these old pickup snowmobiles do not have a modern day equivalent
http://gomotors.net/photos/38/5b/ford-model-t-snow-machine-conversion_d19d4.jpg?i

Who says there's no modern day equivalent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwpKjEa4LYY
Woodland Mills HM130

ChugiakTinkerer

Wow, thanks for the welcome and encouragement.  I just was chatting with my wife and I think I have her on board.  Didn't even take any alcohol.  8)

I wish I had the energy to reply to everyone tonight but I'm pretty tuckered out.  I appreciate the pointers though about potential resale after I'm done with the cabin, but as mentioned above I may not be able to part with it then!

Thanks again for the welcome and I'm looking forward to discovering the trials and tribulations of milling my own lumber.
Woodland Mills HM130

Quebecnewf

I log in the winter with snowmobile. If you are going that route and are planning to cut 8x8x20  ft logs you had better have good logging conditions. Hard snow, flat ground , good snowmobiles, good chainsaws, small gas winch, good helper, pulp hooks and peveys , winter logging experience etc etc.

It can be done but if your just starting logging your first log should not be a 8x8x20. Start small and work your way up. If I was cutting that size I would first cut all the smaller logs I needed around the same area where these logs are standing. Move those first. This does two things , makes room to fell the big ones and you best down a hard path. Best time to log that size is in the spring after the snow has started to melt . You pick a cold morning with a good crust on the snow and go for it. If your having to walk to the base of a tree that size with you snowshoes on to keep from sinking , better not fall it then.

Check out my gallery there are lots of pics of my winter logging operations. You might find some ideas there that you could apply to your operation.

Keep us posted

Quebecnewf

qbilder

The huge plus is that you'll be cutting spruce, which is quite light weight and typically very straight. Dragging logs should be a breeze if you have them trimmed of all the spiky broken branches. A 20'x12" spruce is peanuts compared to dragging any equivalent sized hardwood. You also have 3 months of solid sun and 50*-80* weather. I wouldn't dare offer advice, but I have lived in Alaska and cut trees/dragged logs. Your plans aren't far fetched or impossible at all. Good luck & post pics of progress!
God bless our troops

timcosby

your stealing my dreams!!! i have been dreaming of doing that for years. my norwood mill was delivered an a 4'x4'x'3 tall pallet. very skidable to the site. once on site put it together and maybe put skis under it to take to the tree rather than trying to drag the monster tree to the mill. i bet once your done you could sell the mill for more than you bought it for. go for you dog you im envious

redbeard

Get the mill and your dream will be rewarded 10 x better. All your  info you will need is right here on forestry forum.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

derhntr

There is something to say about building with your own material. Lot of pride in that. Question is time. By the time you saw the trees down, skid them out. Saw the lumber, stack the wood. Hour wise you could be half done building if you purchased the lumber. I have project requiring 8,500 bft of 4/4 boards, working for the last month 3-5 hours a day (still have real job) and 12-14 hours a day on weekends. Working by myself I have sawed just over 6,000 bft. That's from standing tree to boards, stickering and stacking.  Still have to transport them 12 miles to building site. Hour wise the building would have been done if I had purchased material to do it either in steel or T-11. But I am saving over 20K by doing it myself. I personal would dread sawing 7800 bft on a manual mill. Having a fully hydraulic mill spoils you. Wish you the best in your project and look forward to seeing the progress.
 

2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

Kingcha

If you have the time buy the mill and cut your own wood.   That being said, can you earn a lot more doing something else with your time.   That would be a game changer ad for as economics.

About selling the mill when yor done, you won't as you will have the bug.       
Good luck and we!come

Matt
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

Brad_S.

Asking whether you should buy a mill or buy lumber on a sawmilling board is like asking your drinking buddies of you should have another or go home instead. Answer will be pretty predictable.

I will break from the pack.

I began to cut the number for a barn that I wanted to build. I have a hydraulic mill with all the bells and whistles and the amount of time it was taking me was still unacceptable .  Additionally, spruce and pine have a tendency to drip sap so it needs to be kilndried to set the pitch. If you are not satisfied with rough sawn lumber on your walls and ceiling, it will all need to be planed.

In the end, I bought lumberyard lumber and I am glad I did. If I ran short on something, I could just go get more and know that it would match perfectly.

By your own estimate, you will only save a couple of thousand dollars. The amount of labor you will save will be worth that and more. You will get your structure up faster and be farther down the road in the long run.

The difference between me and you however is that I had to buy my logs. That was costing me about $270 per thousand so by the time I added my milling expenses, drying expenses and planning costs, I was equal to or exceeding the cost of lumberyard lumber.

I did use my own lumber for trim, flooring and built-ins but I don't know that that alone would justify the cost of a mill.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: Brad_S. on August 05, 2016, 11:12:10 PM
Asking whether you should buy a mill or buy lumber on a sawmilling board is like asking your drinking buddies of you should have another or go home instead. Answer will be pretty predictable.

I will break from the pack.

I began to cut the number for a barn that I wanted to build. I have a hydraulic mill with all the bells and whistles and the amount of time it was taking me was still unacceptable .  Additionally, spruce and pine have a tendency to drip sap so it needs to be kilndried to set the pitch. If you are not satisfied with rough sawn lumber on your walls and ceiling, it will all need to be planed.

In the end, I bought lumberyard lumber and I am glad I did. If I ran short on something, I could just go get more and know that it would match perfectly.

By your own estimate, you will only save a couple of thousand dollars. The amount of labor you will save will be worth that and more. You will get your structure up faster and be farther down the road in the long run.

The difference between me and you however is that I had to buy my logs. That was costing me about $270 per thousand so by the time I added my milling expenses, drying expenses and planning costs, I was equal to or exceeding the cost of lumberyard lumber.

I did use my own lumber for trim, flooring and built-ins but I don't know that that alone would justify the cost of a mill.

Brad_S, thanks for sharing your experience.  I'm an utter newbie to the realm of milling, and my experience with wood is the kiln-dried I get from the yard or the firewood I have cut from from spruce and poplar.  I hadn't even thought about the sap in spruce, and now that you mention it I recall that being a nuisance with the last spruce I cut.  I don't have a kiln, nor access to one.  And I don't particularly like the idea of spruce sap dripping from the walls and ceiling.  I appreciate the voice of experience letting me know the complications and limitations of milling my own lumber.
Woodland Mills HM130

clintnelms

I have the Woodland Mills HM126 and love it. Great company to deal with too. I'd suggest the HM126 if you can swing it. Love some of the new features I've seen on the HM130. Get it if you can, but I'm sure you'll be happy with the 722 though. Good luck!

never finished

  If your not dead set on post and beam. You can build a frame structure with smaller logs. Which means less support equipment, easier skidding, lighter lifting. Consider how much help you will have around when lifting beams. Just food for thought. I have always thought, if building in a remote location I would go with cord wood cabin. Dennis

Merlin

Hello Chugiak,
I went through this exact dilemma a few years ago and I am still "working" on the building, but it is more than usable. I first bought a piece of land 150 km form my current home and cleared the spot for the camp, put in a driveway and cleared the building spot. The previous winter I spent most of my weekends in the woods cutting and hauling out the trees. There are a few pics in my album the farm but here are a few.



 



 

After that work, the real time consuming part began. Milling all the wood. Here is a pic of the wood to be milled, not all of it went to the camp, but quite a bit did.



  

  

  

 

All of this was done a manual mill and I only ever had one other set of hands to help at times, other times just myself.
Here are some of the fruits of my labour. 

  

  

 

In the end, to answer your question of should you buy your own mill. I believe yes, but I was able to borrow a mill when I needed it. I was able to build my camp for around $14000. That was including the concrete, driveway, electrician and such. But it was a crap load of time. I also milled all the interior wood and the siding. The interior stuff was all planed and ran through the table saw to make a shiplap edge as I didn't have anything else available to make t&g.



  

  

  

  

  

 

It was livable for the winter snowmobile season, but not finished inside. That got done throughout the year when time permitted.



  

  

  

 


And the finished product, well not quite "finished" looks rather good. Most of the creature comforts of home, without all the things that MUST get done on the farm. The last project is installing a shallow well so that we have a bit of water for washing dishes and flushing the toilet. It is almost done.



  

  

  

  

  

  

 

The experience was great and it is very satisfying to be able to say that I was able to take the trees from my land and build this completely. It will be there for years and my kids love "PICNIC LAND".



 

The only caveat would be if you are able to work for money during the time it takes to do all this work and be ahead money. I unfortunately do not have the luxury as I'm a salary person. But since I teach high school, I have some free time during the "hot" months when I don;t need to be working on the farm.



2018 LT15 Wide, 2012 Kubota M8540 w FEL, Norse 390 logging winch, IH 484 w FEL, several Stihl Chainsaws. 115 acre family farm with NFLD ponies, a few beef cows, 1 Border Collie, a very understanding wife and 2 great kids.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Einstein

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: never finished on August 06, 2016, 08:45:54 PM
  If your not dead set on post and beam. You can build a frame structure with smaller logs. Which means less support equipment, easier skidding, lighter lifting. Consider how much help you will have around when lifting beams. Just food for thought. I have always thought, if building in a remote location I would go with cord wood cabin. Dennis

Funny you should mention that.  I'm scratching my head looking at alternatives now.  Thanks for the suggestion.
Woodland Mills HM130

ChugiakTinkerer

Merlin,

That is a fine looking camp you have made for your family.  Thanks for sharing the pictures of your journey to Picnic Land.  I'm a salary person too, but don't get as much time off in the summer.  For my arrangement I will be able to do most of my logging and milling in the winter, assuming I go that route.  My thought process seems at the moment to be driven by whichever direction the weather vane is pointing, but I'm looking at changing my cabin design to make much more use of sawn lumber.  Oddly enough, the magic 8-ball is saying buy the mill!  :D
Woodland Mills HM130

pine

Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on August 05, 2016, 02:18:04 AM
Quote from: DDW_OR on August 05, 2016, 12:34:56 AM
get the mill, then mill what you need. then mill more for future use, then double it.
house, outhouse, smoke house, food storage to keep bears and ? ? ? out,

and get a 4x4 tractor with a PTO logging winch.

then if you need to get your $$ back you should have no problem since as you stated, "the pickings in Alaska are slim"

i am surprised these old pickup snowmobiles do not have a modern day equivalent
http://gomotors.net/photos/38/5b/ford-model-t-snow-machine-conversion_d19d4.jpg?i

Who says there's no modern day equivalent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwpKjEa4LYY

Since you posted this in your own topic, I can only respond with:
NOW THAT IS COOL

SkyDoc

Chugiak,

I was born and raised up there (Petersburg) and my parents now live in Houston (AK not TX). I am quite familiar with the terrain, challenges and goals. I bought a Lumbersmith Bantam 26 for my personal projects. I am really pleased with the mill.

I would suggest that you took at look at their mill but buy your steel for the track up there and fabricate a sturdy track system with a sturdy base on your property. Their stock track system would be fine if you had a cement slab to work from but working in the tundra you are going to have challenges keeping things level.

The suggestion to take a log arch and put some ski's on it is pretty genius. If I was working in that terrain thats exactly what I would do.

Best of luck with your goals. If I can help in any way, please drop me a message.

Doc
Dad always said "its easier to learn from someone else's  mistake than to make it yourself". Thats why I am here....

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: SkyDoc on August 07, 2016, 10:37:57 AM
Chugiak,

I was born and raised up there (Petersburg) and my parents now live in Houston (AK not TX). I am quite familiar with the terrain, challenges and goals. I bought a Lumbersmith Bantam 26 for my personal projects. I am really pleased with the mill.

I would suggest that you took at look at their mill but buy your steel for the track up there and fabricate a sturdy track system with a sturdy base on your property. Their stock track system would be fine if you had a cement slab to work from but working in the tundra you are going to have challenges keeping things level.

The suggestion to take a log arch and put some ski's on it is pretty genius. If I was working in that terrain thats exactly what I would do.

Best of luck with your goals. If I can help in any way, please drop me a message.

Doc

Hola SkyDoc!  Your point about the rails is spot on.  I'm pondering if I shouldn't just have two sets of rails, the factory ones I set up at home and some home-made ones that are long enough to cut the length of timbers I need.

I'm thinking I should proceed with caution on this 'buying a mill' thing because I'm not the young man I once was.  I reckon I'll spend some time in December cutting and hauling logs to the property and assess from there if I've got the starch in me to follow through on the cutting and milling required for the entire cabin.  If I decide I'd rather buy lumber then I'm not out anything except for some log handling equipment, which I'd probably get anyway just for cutting firewood.  I know that's my wisest plan going forward, but the part of me that says BUY THE MILL NOW! isn't too happy.  I'll keep my eyes open on the local used mill market and be ready to place an order in January should I still be committed to milling my own.
Woodland Mills HM130

never finished


Kbeitz

I was 63 before I built my mill. Dont let your age slow you down...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

red

Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

ChugiakTinkerer

Woodland Mills HM130

timcosby

im thinking lumber and everything else in alaska is much higher.

ChugiakTinkerer

Some things are the same as you'd pay anywhere in the states, such as dry goods and household items.  Other stuff, it's a puzzlement why it costs so much.  I'm no expert on lumber pricing, but it just seems to make sense to cut and mill my own.  Okay, maybe it's just a rationalization for what I want to do anyway.  8)

With the money we "save" I can pick up a little loader to make the job go quicker.
Woodland Mills HM130

Kbeitz

The best part is that you can make lumber thats not sold
just anywhere. Odd sizes...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: Kbeitz on August 09, 2016, 03:03:29 AM
The best part is that you can make lumber thats not sold
just anywhere. Odd sizes...

Just read most of your build thread.  Very well done!  I didn't get to the end though, have you built a log arch?  I'm thinking about how to make one with skis.
Woodland Mills HM130

Kbeitz

Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on August 09, 2016, 03:07:46 AM
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 09, 2016, 03:03:29 AM
The best part is that you can make lumber thats not sold
just anywhere. Odd sizes...

Just read most of your build thread.  Very well done!  I didn't get to the end though, have you built a log arch?  I'm thinking about how to make one with skis.

Yes I did... Thats another build thread.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,84323.0.html



 

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ChugiakTinkerer

Holy smokes!  That looks like it will be an enjoyable read, thanks!
Woodland Mills HM130

ChugiakTinkerer

So I've been like an ADHD squirrel on speed for the last couple of weeks, trying to figure out what to do.  Buy lumber or buy a mill?  Buy new or buy used?  Buy a Cadillac or buy a Chevy?  I've hopped from one option to the next, convinced that each was the best way to go.

I finally decided to stop dithering and just buy the best mill within my budget.  Shipping kicked it a little over my target of $5K but I've just purchased a Woodland Mills HM130 bandsaw mill.  The green machine is due to arrive in about two weeks.  Will call Kasco next and get some blades.
Woodland Mills HM130

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

plowboyswr

 smiley_clapping now instead of being the squirrel you'll be a kid at christmas! Don't forget a cant hook or peavey to go with it also, them logrites are hard to beat.
Just an ole farm boy takin one day at a time.
Steve

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: plowboyswr on August 17, 2016, 06:29:15 PM
smiley_clapping now instead of being the squirrel you'll be a kid at christmas! Don't forget a cant hook or peavey to go with it also, them logrites are hard to beat.

Yep, I'm thinking two cant hooks.  Or maybe one cant hook and one peavey.  I am a poor tractorless waif, so will have to use mine and my wife's grunt power for moving and rolling logs.
Woodland Mills HM130

ozarkgem

congrats on the mill. You will be hooked on sawing. How much was just the shipping that far?
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: ozarkgem on August 17, 2016, 06:51:30 PM
congrats on the mill. You will be hooked on sawing. How much was just the shipping that far?

A mere $1150 if I pick it up at the port.
Woodland Mills HM130

ozarkgem

Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on August 17, 2016, 07:11:29 PM
Quote from: ozarkgem on August 17, 2016, 06:51:30 PM
congrats on the mill. You will be hooked on sawing. How much was just the shipping that far?

A mere $1150 if I pick it up at the port.
would that be in Whittier?
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: ozarkgem on August 17, 2016, 07:36:53 PM
Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on August 17, 2016, 07:11:29 PM
Quote from: ozarkgem on August 17, 2016, 06:51:30 PM
congrats on the mill. You will be hooked on sawing. How much was just the shipping that far?

A mere $1150 if I pick it up at the port.
would that be in Whittier?

Nope, Anchorage.  Or as some call it, Los Anchorage.  Chugiak is a community within the Municipality of Anchorage, which is like a combined city and county.  Because Alaskans like to be different, we don't have counties either.  We have boroughs.  Which probably have some legal distinction from counties but I don't know what that is.
Woodland Mills HM130

starmac

Well you probably made the right decision, at least I hope. I don't know how far off the road system you are, but if very far you will likely save the cost of the mill just in transportation cost of hauling all your lumber in versus utilizing logs close to the site.

I have an old alpine, not the fastest, most comfortable ride, but once a guy makes a pass ot two to pack the trail, it will pull some good size logs. Just fashion a piece of uhmv to keep the end of the log from digging in.

As far as selling it when done, when does one ever get done. lol I have a friend that pulled in an old circular mill, industrial planer/moulder (to make his tongue and groove) many miles up the salcha with a dozer. This after he built most of the place with a homeade chainsaw mill. This old stuff got flooded at some time in the past and has sat for a number of years, now he has bought an lt40hd and fashioned some skis to it todrag up there with his snowcat.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

ChugiakTinkerer

Thanks, at least it's a decision.  There's an estate auction in Salcha on Saturday, has an LT40HD among all the equipment and toys.  Was really hoping to get up there this weekend but life has other plans.  So I opted for the sure thing.  Great North Auction web site has details, lots of other items including some chainsaws, an old Foley Belsaw planer, etc.  Enough tools and toys to equip a half dozen man-caves.

Doh, just re-read the rest of your post.  Friend named Taylor by chance?
Woodland Mills HM130

DMcCoy

Met a guy along the Alcan, if they still call it that, hauling bandmills to Anchorage.  Had a 5th wheel with 5 of them on it.  Said the trip was 5-6 days,  sold like hotcakes, then he went back for another load.  Can't remember the brand came from SE USA.

That is a very BIG state you live in, its hard to comprehend unless you go there!   Got back and it felt far too busy here at home, too many people, too many roadsigns, everything seemed to go too fast.

Enjoy your mill!  Great place to live imho.

starmac

Now why did you have to mention tha estate auction? I have been up north for a couple of weeks and hadn't heard about it, and probably would have been fine without knowing about it till it was over. lol

I do know a guy from salcha that is selling out, but not at auction. Lots of his stuff is in the big buck range.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

starmac

Well the mill did not bring the reserve, so didn't sell. It was a 93 with the 24 horse onan. It had 2000 and change for hours on it, and looked to be in good condition.
They had a reserve of 15,000 on it, which seems a little on the high side, but everything mill related went with is, so maybe not. It had several boxes of blades, the old drag type sharpener, the lap siding attachment, some lumber stands, a small edger also went with it.

My wife told me when I informed dher I was going to an auction this morning, that if I bought anything big, something had to go.  I think I am safe, as I only bought an axe, a tire hammer and a 1 ton ford with a 12 foot flatbed dump. She will probably consider the 1 ton big, but since it is smaller than my other trucks, I should be somewhat safe, iffen I play dumb.

I went to look at the planer moulder, and there were actually 2, that probably sold worth the money, but they were bellsaws, and fairly light, not what I eventually want.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

ChugiakTinkerer

Thanks so much for the auction report.  I'm surely glad I didn't go, as that $15k is way out of my reach.  Congrats on the truck, and good luck with the better half!
Woodland Mills HM130

starmac

There is an lt28 in the anchorage craigslist today for 7500.
There was a guy from Anchorage that drove up to have a go at the mill at the auction.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

ChugiakTinkerer

Quote from: starmac on August 21, 2016, 02:48:48 AM
There is an lt28 in the anchorage craigslist today for 7500.
There was a guy from Anchorage that drove up to have a go at the mill at the auction.

Well where was this LT28 earlier when I bought my Woodland Mills?   ???  Oh well, I guess that's how it goes.  I need to start prepping a bed for my mill which is due to arrive about September 1.
Woodland Mills HM130

starmac

The lt 28 was not hydraulic, but did have power up and down and power feed.
Sounds as if your luck and timeing is about like mine. lol

Look at the bright side, your woodland mills will be easier to transport to an off road site, and easier to build more track to cut longer logs.

I would love to get my hands on an lt 15 just for the ability to add track, to go along with the lt 40.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

starmac

My bad, that is an lt 30 listed in los anchorage, not a 28.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

starmac

Ah, but then you get to add the Alaka premium we get to pay for the priveledge for living this close to heaven. lol

The lt 30 for sale did have power feed and head.

I was back out there today to pick up the 1 ton and noticed some orange through the trees. and checked it out, it was an extension that I don't think has ever even been used.
This would, along with all of the other things that went with the mill would make her reserve not too bad for this area. I also found out that he had only had it for about a year, and knew the guy he bought it from, so knew it had had excellent maintenance, since new.

I kind of fault the auctioneer for it not selling.  The mill was one place, the lap siding attachment another, the sharpener cant hook, lots of boxes of blades, the friggen battery, the edger and extra edger blades for it were all under a tarp where they had pulled it out of the garage, but covered it because it started raining, and now I find an extension in yet another place.  The edger was advertised as a debarker.
Oh yea and the fenders in another place.
Everything sawmill related went with it, but most folks didn't know what all went.
The guy from Anchorage was still on the fence about telling her he would pay the reserve, when he was loading up to leave, this little fact could have been a deal maker.
I have to go back to get another pickup I traded her out of, and told her I would put the battery in it, put it in transportation mode for her and reinstall the fenders, as she doesn't know how to get it ready to transport.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ChugiakTinkerer

My plot twist is the purchase of a Woodland Mills HM130 bandsaw mill.  I started a thread about it for anyone interested in seeing what this little mill can do.  Well, will be able to do, as in future tense.  It's still making its journey to Alaska.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=91934.msg1415250#msg1415250
Woodland Mills HM130

ORsawyer

I appreciate all the info and the decision process you went through.  I have been struggling with the same decision for the last 6 months.  Between the land I have to clear for our cabin site and some beetle killed pines from this year, I have about 6,000 bd ft of logs available to mill.  Trying to decide whether to buy a mill or just hire a local sawyer.  The realist in me (and my wife!) says to hire a sawyer but the romantic in me wants to mill my own lumber for our cabin and then have a mill for other projects in the future. 

Funny thing is I have been following your cabin build for a while now on countryplans.com and just now stumbled into your thread on the forestry forum. 

Look forward to seeing how your milling goes.

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, ORsawyer.  I assume you are in Oregon, but adding your location to your profile always helps with questions.    :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ORsawyer

Yes, I am in NE Oregon. Will add that info to my profile.  Thanks.

ChugiakTinkerer

Howdy ORsawyer, thanks for checking in.  I really like the way you worded your choice, the realist vs the romantic.  That fits my decision process to a tee.  What sold me on milling my own was the fact that I know I will be building more than just a cabin.  My wife and I had already discussed how nice it would be to have a guest cabin, and I know I will be needing a generator shed and a tool shed.  Having a mill on the property and trees available means lumber will be available whenever I need it.  Add to that the difficulty in getting on our property and I ruled out hiring a sawyer pretty quickly.  That's the economic argument, but I think the romantic really won the day.   ;D
Woodland Mills HM130

eyewood

I wouldn't deprive you of the experience, but unless you are really in love with the idea of logging and cutting your own boards, I think there is a good chance that you might decide at the end of it all that it would have been better to seek out someone with a mill who is already equipped to do it. It can be frustrating,  brutal work without the support equipment you need in addition to the mill itself. 

Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on August 04, 2016, 07:56:02 PM
Hello FF folks,

I've lurked here off and on for a couple years and I now have reason to step out of the shadows.  My wife and I bought some land and started the process of building a cabin in the woods.  I've settled on a post frame design and have started to cost out the timbers and dimensional lumber.  Looking at all sawn lumber, from 8x12 timbers down to 1x6 tongue & groove paneling, I'm in the ballpark of $7,500.  I don't really have either, but if pressed I would say I have more time than money.  So I says to myself, "Self, why don't you just buy a hobby bandsaw mill and cut your own lumber?"

It certainly appears that I could save from $1K upwards of $4K depending on what I bought, but I know there would be plenty of other costs in addition to the time and effort of felling and hauling logs.  I have the advantage of being adjacent to much state land from which I can cut firewood and house logs free of charge.  Some background on the property and my plans are at http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=14235.0

I'm still a working fool and have no illusions of wanting to mill for coin.  I'm just considering a small mill for building a cabin and the inevitable outbuildings that I haven't even allowed for in my cost estimate, such as tool shed, generator shed, sauna, etc.  My milling would be weekends only on our property, and probably all of that will be in the winter.

I'll be looking at white spruce which grows in the area up to about 24" max.  In fact a potential down side would be that I can't find enough big trees to mill up my timbers.  I'm pretty confident that I could get all the 8"x8"x18' timbers I need, but the 8x10 and 8x12 could be hard to come by.  Even if I have to buy the biggest timbers from a local mill, I'd still be ahead costs wise, as long as I don't value my time.   :'(


Did I mention that this is a remote property in Alaska?  We haul everything in by snowmobile in the winter.  Access in the summer is by float plane.  So a mill that lends itself to being towed by a snowmobile is a big plus.  In fact, the Woodland Mills 722 with a couple of track extensions seems like it would be perfect.  Current pricing shows me out the door with some goodies and shipping at just over $3K.  I know there are plenty of other options and possibly some good deals to be had in the used market.  I've been looking online and the pickings in Alaska are slim. 

So what things don't I know about logging and milling that makes this an impractical idea?  Winter logging seems like the way to go, but I have no clue about milling when it's 20F or colder.  My back of the envelope estimate for the cabin is 7800 board feet of sawn lumber (hope I didn't lose a decimal point).  Is it reasonable to expect to mill that over the course of a couple months if milling is limited to maybe 8 hours a week?  Or will milling eat up so much of my time, time that could be better spent building a cabin?

I appreciate any input you experienced folks wish to offer.  One other thing to mention, this is in a remote area where there is no permit authority.  Hence no requirement for graded lumber.  I'll be free to use whatever I mill and it's on me to make sure I'm using the right wood for the job.

You all are great sports to stay with me this far.  Here's a picture from a moonlit ride on Lake Louise, just a few miles from our property.



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