F350 Dually or single?

[OlJarhead]

So I'm starting to think more about my next truck.  I'm pulling my mill with an F150 Super Crew 4x4 and it does the job but I can't haul much with it (certainly not a camper) so I'm considering an F350 to haul a camper with the mill so I don't have to leave the job site in remote locations (driving an hour back to the cabin or staying in a tent is getting old)....

I get about 10mpg when towing the mill and would like to improve that (unless hauling a camper too) and want to be able to haul a larger camper so I have some comfort on the jobsite in remote locations.  I'd also like to haul lumber from time to time.

Anyway, a friend has a dually (GM) 3500 and swears it's the best optiion for hauling a camper and trailer but others have suggested getting a dually into tight locations can be a challenge and I do go places the road (off road) gets pretty narrow or the turn around spot is barely enough to turn around with my F150.....

What do you use?  What are your thoughts?

[Stuart Caruk]

4x4 dually will go darned near anywhere. Hands down better than single tires.

[pine]

It is a trade-off but is not everything a trade-off? 

If the weight on the truck is light you can actually get stuck on wet grass in a dually because the PSI is so light that you get low traction and just spin your wheels  Seen it happen.  With a 4x4 the front end can help that however.  If you run the camper on all the time and it is heavy enough that should eliminate that issue as you keep the weight up so that the dually does not "float" on the terrain surface by spreading the weight across twice the surface area.  That can hurt but can also help depending upon the terrain.  Again trade-offs. 

The dually will make the truck much more laterally stable with the camper and arguably safer. If you get a large camper, which can raise the CG of the truck's back end and offer more lateral wind area, a single rear axle can be interesting at times.

There is the obvious width increase but I suspect that you have had more of a "turning radius issue" in the out of the way locations.  Look at the specs for the turning radius of the truck you are interested in and compare them to what you have and see how much you would be giving up.

[DanG]

I never had any issue with the extra width, except with downtown parallel parking.  I suspect that the crew cab would give you more grief in tight places than the duals would.

One incident sold me on the duals as an after-the-fact safety factor.  My step-daughter borrowed my truck and horse trailer to take her family to a trail ride.  Along the way, they blew a rear tire while  rounding a fairly sharp curve.  That could have been a real mess with 5 people and 5 horses aboard if they had lost control. 

[bkaimwood]

I am in a similar position, Eric. For what I do, it boils down to this....if I decide on a gooseneck trailer now or in the near future, I will buy a dually. If not, single rear wheel is fine. With a properly balanced load, the right hitch, and angles, my diesel super duty can and will pull anything. I've had a few trailers being me recently in the 18k lb neighborhood. I would rather not have, but got the job done. A gooseneck in a dually makes a big difference, but if you don't go that far, well, you don't have to go that far...

[Gary_C]

How well the pickup will turn is determined by the wheel base, not the number of tires or weight rating. If you are going to put a camper in that pickup and tow something, definitely get the dually.

[pine]

How well the pickup will turn is determined by the wheel base, not the number of tires or weight rating.

True to a point; but different brands with nearly the same wheel base can have significantly different turning radius due to different steering gear linkage design. 
I had never thought of that until back around  the mid 90's when I ran into the issue.

Thus my suggestion to compare the turning radius of the current half ton truck that Erik has to the one he is looking at replacing it with.  Wheel base is the biggest factor but others are there, thus look at the specs from the manufacturer.

[samandothers]

Dually or single is one question.  What about the F350 vs HD3500?   :D ;D

[plowboyswr]

With the camper on I would go for duals. When we have hauled cattle before, my dually would pull in and out of places that Dads single wheel would drop in. That being said my single wheel 3/4 ton with 33-12.50 x 16.5  could also get in and out places that Dad with 7.50x16 on his couldn't. The wider tires on the singles will give better weight handling than the narrower tires will.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Not speaking from experience but the dually sounds real good as to the hauling capabilities. I can't see where it would make your turn around issues worse.

    As to the turn around/tight spots I assume you are talking just the truck and not the truck with mill/trailer. I have sawed in the bend of mountain road as only wide spot around. Disconnected the mill, went up and turned the truck around then turned the mill by hand. The mill balances pretty well and it is not unreasonable to turn around by hand especially if you have a helper or two.

   BTW - you are not in USMC any more. You don't have to camp all the time now :D :D. (We always said you don't have to practice to be miserable- Semper Fi.)

[Magicman]

The word "truck camper" alone does not require or justify dual wheels, and yes, a lightly loaded dually can get stuck on wet grass.

Unless you are planning on hauling heavy loads, the SRW gets my vote.

[ozarkgem]

Back in the 50's the military did a study on dual's verses single wheels in mud. The single wheels would go through more mud so I guess that is why they used dual's for 50 yrs afterwards.  I am ok with singles. Dual's do have advantages for really heavy loads. I just see 2 more tires to buy. I see more singles than dual's here.

[fishpharmer]

I have pulled a good many miles with both dually and srw.  Given the choice, dually is my preference.  Not only does it offer stability and safety in a blowout situation also gives more tire surface area when braking.  My $0.02

[OffGrid973]

I just picked up the Chevy 2500hd cause my mill and rails fit in the back.  Everything is a k-turn when parking since I had the 8' bed put on, but I love it.  With the extra low and tow package this thing can pull lots of weight so I love.  Didn't have the money for diesel so this was the best option.

[barbender]

My dually gets around better in 2wd than the half ton I was driving for work. I've never had a problem getting around with it. On second thought, it gets around well enough that I got myself places where I didn't belong :D

[redbeard]

 

   if you don't need extended cab or four door the single cabs Ford Chevy dodge duallys get in tight spots real good. Short Wheel base is what you need.and 4x4 is a must where your at.

[scsmith42]

Lots of good feedback on this thread thus far.  My own 2 cents.

1 - the turning radius on a truck is usually related to the distance from the frame to the front tires.  My F450 turns in half of the radius of my old F350 and my Excursion because the front tires have a wider track and are thus further away from the frame. 

2.  Unless you are carrying a lot of weight, a DRW truck will usually get stuck in places where a SRW truck would not.  Having 4wd helps a lot with a dually.

3. As other have said, much better lateral stability and braking with DRW. 

4.  Usually SRW gets better fuel mileage.

5.  A diesel with 3.73 rear end ratio (or thereabouts) will probably provide the best compromise between towing capacity and fuel mileage.  2008 and newer F250 SRW diesels with 3.7's typically get 18mpg or better on the highway (non mountainous) in a lightly loaded (no camper) configuration.  Figure 20% - 30% worse for a DRW in the same configuration due to the lower aerodynamic efficiency of the extended rear fenders and more friction losses through the drivetrain.

Most sawmills are fairly light (less than 5K lbs), so either one will work from a towing capacity perspective.  Although I personally prefer DRW's, unless your camper was extremely heavy, for your application I would strongly consider a crew cab F350 SRW truck with a diesel, mainly because you will probably get one two two MPG better fuel mileage.  You certainly won't go wrong with a DRW though, just avoid 4.3 or 4.88 rear end ratio's unless you plan on doing some extremely heavy hauling.

[scully]

I have a 2014 Dodge Cummins crew with 8' bed . It is a single rear wheel 4x4 . They say duellies are more stable for hauling heavy stuff but I pull my mill and 5th wheel and don't even notice them behind me . With no load or trailer I get 20 to 22 MPG on the highway . with my 5th wheel 10 to 11 in the hills and 15 to 16 flat open road . I have a couple friends with big fords and gas motors one of them gets 10 mpg empty !  I'm not sure how well their deisel does . I can say duellies ain't much good in the snow , been their done that . Good luck with what ever you decide .

[Magicman]

One item that has been mentioned a few times; whatever you get, make it 4WD.

Most vehicles are now "limited slip" but that is also a requirement.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

Everything is a k-turn when parking since I had the 8' bed put on, but I love it.

What is a K-turn?

[Weekend_Sawyer]

Oh, I see, it's what we call a 3 point turn.  ;D

[OlJarhead]

Thanks all!  Great feedback.

I suspect that a single may do the job since I wouldn't be hauling a camper (or lumber) all the time.  If I had one now though I would have used it the last each of the last three weekends and next also!  So I don't know. ???

I will be hauling the mill though, and often 100-150 miles each way..my next job is in Chelan (if I do it that is) which is over 100 miles...and I have a potential job in Idaho (204 miles) so I'm finding I'll spend a lot of road time and if pulling the mill I could get better fuel mileage than 10mpg it would be worth it.

Breaking will also be better than my F150 no matter which I go with me thinks.  I saw the rear brakes smoking coming down a long steep hill to a stop 3 weeks ago.  I added some bias to the trailer brakes after that but don't like the pull I feel on it with that much bias...gotta get those checked.

Anyway, I wonder if there is much difference in mileage.  I've been told no but I can't see that as posted earlier there are some differences (width, aero, friction etc).

[Raider Bill]

3-4  point turn

[larrydown60]

Just my 2 cents I had a 1999 chevy dually 4x4 with a 454 tow anything I wanted to with a smooth ride and it would tow it at 100 mph if I wanted to. the gas mileage was about 17 mpg empty and about 10 - 12 mpg towing anything. I also used it for snowplowing as long as I had good tires I could plow in 2wd but if the snow was deep I had to use 4 x 4 Tires I had were Michlin m/s tires they made all the difference 

 

[Magicman]

That sawmill weighs close to 4,000 pounds, so do not expect to get a significant increase in fuel mileage.

[OlJarhead]

That sawmill weighs close to 4,000 pounds, so do not expect to get a significant increase in fuel mileage.

With a diesel vs a gasser?  My neighbor towed my tractor on a 30 foot trailer with his F250 7.3 and got about 12mpg towing that (about 8000lbs)....I was thinking the sawmill would be light enough the big diesels would pull it at 12+ mpg.  Am I wrong?

Of course, with a camper and the mill I wouldn't expect much but at least I'd be able to pull the mill and haul the camper ;) 

My F150 with big Toyo's gets about 15.5-16.5mpg depending on how I drive and where but not towing.  It's 10 then no matter what.

On a side note, I was getting 17.5-19mpg with the F150 on stock tires....was surprised by the loss of 2mpg just due to tires but don't expect much anyway,.

[chevytaHOE5674]

For towing a 4klbs sawmill and a camper I'm not really seeing where there is a need for a dually truck. I routinely tow (over 1k miles in the last 8 days) 16-18k lbs on a gooseneck trailer with a SRW truck and have had no issues. I don't have any trouble with sway or braking (trailer has good brakes on all axles), heck even got the wife hauling 16k lbs loads of hay this past week. Over these last 1k miles of towing I've averaged 11.5mpg.   

My experience with DRW's is they are worse than a SRW in mud and snow because the rear tires are always trying to make new tracks as they don't fit and follow in the tracks from the front tires.

[rasman57]

If you are considering a hard sided slide in truck camper of any real size you will want the DRW as they are hefty when set up with water and gear.  Some of the pop up types and lite models would be fine with SRW.   

I have a 1 ton 3500 GMC SRW regular cab long bed and still is not enough to haul a decent sized slide in truck camper loaded without extra help.   

Those DRW are the way to go if the truck camper is your objective simply from a carrying the weight perspective.   It's not about the power and handling so much as the safety of the capacity.

[BUGGUTZ]

Ive got one of each. The single rear is nice because it handles drive thru's with ease (bank especially) it rides nicer than the dually because of the lessened unsprung weight. 4 tires are way cheaper to replace than 6.

HOWEVER, I never think twice about ANY load going on the dually. Even with a trailer in tow it hauls whatever I need it to! Fuel mileage sucks, it rides like poo but thats not why I bought it.

Good luck!

[ScottAR]

Either will likely do what you want depending on the weight of the camper.

The dually will feel more stable loaded  / The single is nicer to drive in town. 

[thecfarm]

I am not doing the buying,BUT,hard to see what 2-3 years down the road what you will be using it for. Buy the dully and maybe in 2 years you will say,man,I'm glad I did that. Never know what you will be hauling 2 years from now.

[barbender]

Yes, the main dually drawbacks, how they get around is a non-issue to me. I honestly don't see any difference, and my truck is in the woods in mud and snow every day. The real drawbacks- 1.Just wait until it is time to buy 6 E load range tires $$ 2. The previously mentioned drive thru tellers, as well as the Golden Arches etc. 3. Add to that drive thru car washes 4. Parking ramps. Myself I like the challenge of putting the big truck in the places where people don't think it will fit. Except for the car wash, don't try that one ;D

[OlJarhead]

Hmmm....guess the question is "what is the weight of the truck camper you are thinking of buying" or something like that.

After all, something in the 2000lbs range ought to be fine on a SRW right?  vs a 4000lbs camper

[rasman57]

After all, something in the 2000lbs range ought to be fine on a SRW right?  vs a 4000lbs camper
[/quote]

Yes.  The SRW will have no problems with the lighter slide in type.  But you know how you decided to UPGRADE your mill........   sometimes it seems to happen with our other gear too.  🚍

[barbender]

BTW, I had a 3/4 I was happy with, but I was at an auction where no one was bidding on this Dodge dually. I didn't even want a dually but it was too cheap too pass up. Now I've got the old girl about wore out, and I'm looking for another dually  ;)

[ScottAR]

2,000 lbs. just levels off my f350 srw.  Rides good that way too.   ;D

Do check the door sticker for weight ratings.  My truck is rated to weigh 9,900lbs.  Empty with part of a tank of fuel it's about 6,400.  Reg cab 4x2 so mine's light as far as F350s go.   Many (all I have ever seen) F250s have the "9900 payload package"   which is just the f350 spring packs and sway bars etc. 

[DDW_OR]

my two cents......
slide in camper - keep it small and light, all it is going to be used for is sleeping and cooking, bathroom is a bonus

Truck - Dually = wide back end, better stability, harder to find parking spaces.
Single = two less tires to buy

gas vs diesel. is your mill gas?
Diesel, stick with the non-DEF engines = older trucks
the 5.9 and the 7.3 are both good engines.

I would recommend a Dodge 3500, with flatbed.
a Dually could handle a 8x8 flatbed

I have a 2007 dodge Dually crewcab with a standard 8 foot box. been thinking of changing the box to a flatbed with hydraulic lift to make the flatbed into a dump bed.
I had a 2001 F250 ex cab that had the dump flatbed, man i miss it.

[WIwoodworker]

I have a 2500HD 4WD Diesel single. Great mileage even when pulling a loaded 18' trailer of logs/lumber. I've never owned a dually so I can't comment on any difference in that respect but I can say I'd never own a gasser again and I'd never be without 4WD.

[Kbeitz]

I put many many miles pulling this trailer of 8500lbs load of antique pumps
to engine shows with a slide in camper on 1500 Chevy trucks with no problems.



 

[Chop Shop]

I put many many miles pulling this trailer of 8500lbs load of antique pumps
to engine shows with a slide in camper on 1500 Chevy trucks with no problems.

I would not be comfortable doing that.

I also would be comfortable paying the DOT after being stopped with that combo here in WA.


I vote dually.   Slide in campers HATE pickup trucks.  Ever swerve a single wheel with a camper on back?  SRW trucks with campers scare me.   I avoid them on the highway. 

Put a bigger diff cover on and fill it with royal purple too.  Tow that camper a hundred miles and roll under there and feel the pinion snout and it will scare you.

Im a 12V cummins guy.   And I love my flatbed.   Todays tires suck.  6 of them is better odds than 4.

[red]

This is something I feel very strong about . First is One Ton pickups are a must . No 3/4 heavy duty sorry that's not a one ton . Because of bigger steering,brakes,frames and just GVW numbers . It's safety things for you and anyone else on the road . But the extra dually tires give you the bigger footprint on the road . Most tires do not have much more contact with the road than the size of a dollar Bill. Think of motorcycles and how much contact their tires have with the road . Under hard braking you need as much contact with the road under perfect conditions .  Braking distances are very important and need to be respected. Sure you can tailgate someone in your family car and most likely you will stop in time . But not with a load on going down hill in the rain . But the dually also give stability let's say if your load shifts and your top heavy to begin with . Think of a liquid load moving around or if you have a tire going down on air. I want that extra tire to hold the weight. There are just to many people taking big risks and don't realize it . I see small suv pulling campers and boats that are way to big .  If you are hauling and you have commercial type license plates you need to be as safe as possible . Now I also think you should have a standard transmission but that's my Opinion . have a great day . , RED

[scully]

Good points there Red . But get this .... I ordered my new Ram 3500 and insisted on a standard trans . My dealer and friend strongly advised the automatic . Long story short I went reluctantly with the automatic . Heres what I learned after the fact . Ram 3500 standard 6.7 Cummins 350 H.P. , w/dodge auto trans. 375H.P. withe the available AISIN trans. 385 H.P.  I do have the selectashift so I can shift gears like a standard if I want ,but what I found out is with the Cummins driver the standards cant take the torque . Not to say they won't last but I would rather have  the hoarse power . I have owned 4 standard shift trucks 2 Ford 150's and 2 3/4 ton Dodge's always loved them but I aint lookin back now .

[scully]

Oh and I do agree that a 1 ton is the only way to fly !

[routestep]

Every so often my brother would carry an extra heavy load. He decided to put on an extra leaf spring on his truck. That might help you with your camper weight, but not with braking, etc.

[Magicman]

I have air bags on my F250 which does  not increase the load capacity, but they do level it up nicely.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Because of bigger steering,brakes,frames and just GVW numbers .

Depending on the manufacture the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks usually share all the same front brakes, suspension, steering, axles etc also the frames are usually the same size and thickness. The only real difference is the rear leaf springs.

For instance go to rock auto and lookup a 2016 F-250 and an F-350 and compare parts. All of the front brakes, steering and suspension are the same. The rear rotors and calipers are different part numbers (different offset with the DRW axle) but the rotors are the same diameter and thickness. In fact ford lists the specs for brakes the same on all F250/350/450....

Basically the dually is difference springs and an extra set of tires.

[Board Cutter]

As another Washingtonian I'll put in my .02 cents.  I hauled a 10' camper for about 3 years on a SRW 1 ton and corners, or not being on the level (moving into a mill site) will be very exciting at times.  I switched to a DRW when I bought a new truck and could believe how stable it felt.  No more white knuckles or cheeks sucking up the seat.  If you are just towing I would say either, but if you are going to have a camper, bite the bullet and get DRW.
I would also go a diesel with all the hauling you will be doing.
This is going to be hard for me to type as I have always been a Ford man, 35+ years, but I have buddies with Chevy Duramax and if I was buying today, I would really have to think hard whether I would stay with Ford.

Good luck in your search, I've really enjoyed reading your posts with you being a local, well at least in Washington but on the dry side :D

[tnaz]

I have air bags on my F250 which does  not increase the load capacity, but they do level it up nicely.

X2 love the air bags. 8)

[OlJarhead]

I've been doing a lot of reading lately and it seems that those who do a lot of off-road driving with campers (including some truck camping magazine sites) recommend the SRW over the DRW and a lighter/smaller camper.

I'm wondering if this isn't the best option:  F350 extended cab, long box, 4x4 SRW with 7 to 7.5' wide camper no longer than 8 1/2 feet long and weighing in around 2500-2700lbs wet.  This would put the camper fully loaded around 3500lbs, keep it narrow for those narrow roads (trails) I most often find myself and light enough for an SRW.  Probably want air bags and maybe better shocks with a very good set of wheels and tires under it.

My driveway to the cabin is as narrow as 9 feet and 3 miles long of pretty rough road and I find myself constantly towing the mill into places like this.  I'll drive 1o0 miles down the interstate then turn off onto some 2 lane road for a while and then off onto a dirt track or narrow road to get to the mill site.  I also use the truck to drive up that 3 mile driveway in the winter all the time (once or twice a week or more) with chains on. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   One word of caution with the duallys - they do pick up rocks and such between the tires. If you choose this option be sure to have good heavy duty mud flaps behind to deflect the rocks that get wedged then thrown out at highway speeds.

   In Afghanistan we got real careful about following too closely behind vehicles with duallys. You never knew what was going to fly out. Compounding the problem was the military use of the big ankle buster rocks for dust abatement rather than the smaller gravel sizes.

[terrifictimbersllc]

I've been doing a lot of reading lately and it seems that those who do a lot of off-road driving with campers (including some truck camping magazine sites) recommend the SRW over the DRW and a lighter/smaller camper.

I'm wondering if this isn't the best option:  F350 extended cab, long box, 4x4 SRW with 7 to 7.5' wide camper no longer than 8 1/2 feet long and weighing in around 2500-2700lbs wet.  This would put the camper fully loaded around 3500lbs, keep it narrow for those narrow roads (trails) I most often find myself and light enough for an SRW.  Probably want air bags and maybe better shocks with a very good set of wheels and tires under it.

My driveway to the cabin is as narrow as 9 feet and 3 miles long of pretty rough road and I find myself constantly towing the mill into places like this.  I'll drive 1o0 miles down the interstate then turn off onto some 2 lane road for a while and then off onto a dirt track or narrow road to get to the mill site.  I also use the truck to drive up that 3 mile driveway in the winter all the time (once or twice a week or more) with chains on.

Better check the payload numbers before you buy, 3500 sounds like a lot but maybe the extended cab will allow it. I have an F350 crew cab long bed SRW and it won't hold 3500#.  BTW your plan sounds exciting and I may copy it for my next truck if you don't mind. But by then I may be towing a boat behind the truck/camper and not a sawmill.

[ladylake]

 No matter what  stay away from a Ford 6.0, you'll find them cheap as they have lots of problems.  Steve

[OlJarhead]

No matter what  stay away from a Ford 6.0, you'll find them cheap as they have lots of problems.  Steve

http://www.littlepowershop.com/common-6-0-powerstroke-problems-issues-and-fixes/

From this article I'm thinking they might be the answer ;)  Actually I'm thinking of an '08 6.4 instead......no emissions testing where I am either ;)  (note:  I'm not advocating breaking any laws)

[Kbeitz]

I put a lot of miles on 1/2 ton trucks with slide in campers...



 



 

[21incher]

I have a F350 4x4 SRW supercab long bed with a 11,000 GVW that will easily carry 4000 lbs. and being over 10k lbs it does not meet the strict pollution standards of cars. 

[OlJarhead]

Kbeitz I was reading today that a few half ton's are really heavy 3/4 tons ;)  Or at least they are rated over 2000#'s

Mine is rated at 1600lbs (so a real 3/4 ton truck) but not too many campers fall under that fully loaded and I wouldn't want to anyway.

[Kbeitz]

You will find out that a well built nice light camper is real hard to find.
Well it was for me in northeastern part of USA . The last picture is the one I use now . It was a pop up but when I bought it but the top was damaged. I made a new 12ga steel top for it.  So it's not a pop up anymore . Good luck hunting for one.

[OlJarhead]

With an F350 I can go heavier ;)

[Kbeitz]

With an F350 I can go heavier ;)

I would see no problem with a F350 and allmost any slide in camper unless
you was looking at something like this... Allmost 5000lbs

http://www.amlrv.com/eagle-cap-truck-campers/eagle-cap-truck-camper-models-floor-plans/eagle-cap-truck-camper-model-1165/

[OlJarhead]

FYI I settled on a SRW F350 in the end.  Just figured off-roading in the winter it was best to go with SRW from everything I read and everyone I spoke with who did any driving off-road and specially in the winter.

Pretty happy with the truck and it's a 2010 (posted in my mill thread) with 32k miles on it.

[tacks Y]

Good move. I do not like the wide DRW myself. I run a Chevy DRW but mine is not the wide one. There is a difference.

[Brandon1986]

A bit late sounds like you have it figured out.. no the less, spec the camper then the truck. I have an 01 super duty 350.. I was SERIOUSLY contemplating an f550.. I from time to time pull an 18,000 850E Case dozer on a receiver style pintle hitch (with the company F550) and was thinking it would be nice to just grab that combo on my way to the job sometimes instead of going to the shop and grabbing the 550 then back tracking for the dozer... I decided to go with the srw crew cab 350 because MOST of my driving isn't with all that weight behind... I have pulled around 10k with it now.. it's fine with that load and if I need to go heavier I can just go get a 550.. I would be totally comfortable with a 2500# camper in the back of that thing.. without putting air in the bags..

As far as the mill goes.. I have never pulled one truth be told, but I have pulled a lot of different trailers weighing up to 80,000# and I just don't see there being hardly any tongue weight.. under 500# for a big mill.. I could be wrong.. with that balanced of a load, the drw becomes quickly irrelevant..

I would be much more inclined to buy a heavier rated tire on a srw if I needed than buy a dually..  Case in point my old man bought a brand new clone of my truck in 13' it came with 17" rims and tires rated for....... 2800# a piece I think, well if you upgrade to the 20" wheel you can get a tire rated for 3500# (my memory might be off on numbers but the concept is sound).. Last month we were in Anchorage looking to buy a new dump truck for the business and while we were in there got a call from the Caterpillar shop saying our undercarriage for our D6 had come in.. we decided to just TRY to put the 7000# rails sprocket rollers ect ect in the back of his 1 ton since it's what we had at the time.. Figured heck if even we can only take half it saves us from the hour trip in with the f550 later we can take a lighter more nimble 350.. well we kept stacking it on and about the time the tires started showing weight it was all loaded up..

All that to say is unless you have a full time use for those duals.. I'd avoid buying tires and fenders as 70% of the ones I see locally have met with a stationary object at one time or another and spring for the srw.... as you already have
Brandon

[OlJarhead]

The payload on this one says 4400#'s and I plan on buying a 8 foot camper which I figure will make it easier to get around in the woods towing the mill but still give me plenty of room and comfort after a long day of milling

[barbender]

Dually fenders do tend to run into things.

[Magicman]

Carefully research the camper weight.  Adding water and holding tanks, they can get HEAVY very quickly.   :-\

[Idiocrates]

Our fire department has several brush trucks all built on F350 chassis with two speed dual wheel rear axles....and they are all mountain goats.....especially when the 350 gallon water tank is full.  We've taken these trucks through places that in retrospect we definitely shouldn't have .....but haven't been left stranded yet.  Biggest problem we run into is getting rocks stuck between the duals.  The only truck I've ever seen that even comes close to out climbing these trucks is the old deuce and a half military truck....but this isn't really an apple's to Apple's comparison.

[Gearbox]

If you have to go through gates get tight when you have a 10 ft gate and are turning off a road . Like barbender said fenders run into things . I haul 5000 # of red oak on my single wheel F250 diesel . That's about it on the tire rating (3600#) each . Also watch for after market wheels they may not be rated for heavy loads .

[barbender]

Idiocrates, I want to hear more about this one ton 2 speed rear end- any more info? I've never heard of one being available, and I think it would be the cat's meow ;) Gearbox, I like the challenge of seeing what all places I can get my dually into (where it doesn't belong) :D

[DDW_OR]

No matter what  stay away from a Ford 6.0, you'll find them cheap as they have lots of problems.  Steve

http://www.littlepowershop.com/common-6-0-powerstroke-problems-issues-and-fixes/

From this article I'm thinking they might be the answer ;)  Actually I'm thinking of an '08 6.4 instead......no emissions testing where I am either ;)  (note:  I'm not advocating breaking any laws)

also look at the newest Diesel that does NOT use DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid)

[plantman]

I have a landscaping business and pull a trailer that is over 10k lbs. I had a F350 but upgraded to a F550 because it has a higher gear ratio in the rear. Both were diesels. For my needs I required the diesel engine but for pulling around a 4000 lb trailer you don't need diesel and might consider gas. I've heard of people that have gas engines in their F350's and they get 8 or 9 mpg. The diesel only gets a few mpg more. The problem is all the pollution controls on these engines rob them of mileage. I've heard the Chevy 6 liter gas is a very good engine if you don't require the torque of a diesel.
Although I like the creature comforts of a new truck I'm becoming more fond of my old truck that doesn't have all the complexities of these new trucks. And in my state vehicles older than '96 don't require inspections .

[OlJarhead]

http://www.littlepowershop.com/6-4-powerstroke-common-problems-issues-and-fixes
Good article

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
  We have had a 08 6.4 F350 SRW for about 200,000 miles. I have maintained it through the complete time. Towing I get about 12 mpg and empty running about 70 I get around 15 mpg. I do have the engine emission stuff all removed. It was getting around 8 mpg when original. I really like this truck. But I have done lots to keep it running. Everything I have done to this truck is related to the engine. Transmission and drive train has been solid. Brakes are a given, rotors and pads are part of maintenance.
I purchased the truck with 40,000 miles for $ 24,000 and it had a R title. It was stolen from what I could find out. It has some body work done at some time. I had the leather seat repaired last year. If I would not have been able to do the repairs my self it would have been gone a long time ago. I have never had the valve covers off or oil pan. Everything has been related to exhaust and cooling system. The week we went about 700 miles and I think the head gasket is getting ready to give me issues.
I have not removed the cab for any repairs but most dealers remove the cabs for any repairs needed to the engine or exhaust.

We purchased a 2016 6.7 SWR Club Cab 8' bed diesel last year but I refuse to run it till this one quits. It is getting around 10 mpg loaded and 13 mpg empty. It does use the DEF fluid which has not been a big deal.

Hope this helps.

Marty

[breederman]

Marty, The mpg on that 6.7 should get better if it gets broken in . I run a 2012 for work with a cap that sticks up over top of the cab acting like a sail and running at or near the max gvwr for the truck and get 15 mpg winter and 16.2 summer . over 200000 miles now.

[OlJarhead]

I have a landscaping business and pull a trailer that is over 10k lbs. I had a F350 but upgraded to a F550 because it has a higher gear ratio in the rear. Both were diesels. For my needs I required the diesel engine but for pulling around a 4000 lb trailer you don't need diesel and might consider gas. I've heard of people that have gas engines in their F350's and they get 8 or 9 mpg. The diesel only gets a few mpg more. The problem is all the pollution controls on these engines rob them of mileage. I've heard the Chevy 6 liter gas is a very good engine if you don't require the torque of a diesel.
Although I like the creature comforts of a new truck I'm becoming more fond of my old truck that doesn't have all the complexities of these new trucks. And in my state vehicles older than '96 don't require inspections .

Many reasons I went diesel over gas but for the most part it was because I will either tow my tractor (6500lbs plus a trailer) or get a camper and then tow the mill...and I towed about 9000 miles last year.  I wasn't real happy with the 10mpg I got towing with my 1/2 ton and anyone I know with a gasser 3/4 ton gets worse.

My buddy with a Dodge 2500 Hemi got 7mpg towing a mini-ex....my neighbor with his diesel F250 got 11mpg.

Seemed to me the diesel made sense ;)

[OlJarhead]

Hello,
  We have had a 08 6.4 F350 SRW for about 200,000 miles. I have maintained it through the complete time. Towing I get about 12 mpg and empty running about 70 I get around 15 mpg.

Thanks Marty,

Definitely seems to be something that fluctuates.  I saw 16.1 mpg on a 70mile trip with the first 30 into the wind (where I got about 13) and the last with some decent downhill sections to make up for the wind section....but on the return I was getting 14+ after the hills (going up I got 12) and was heading with the wind.  Out of curiosity I reset the MPG on the freeway and at 70 averaged 22 for a 10 mile stretch (mostly flat).

I think this truck would do 20+ on the highway on relatively flat land but suspect it would be better with a complete EGR delete etc ;)  Not that I'm saying do that (to my NSA handlers) because that would be illegal ;)

[Magicman]

If you do an EGR delete, be sure to keep everything.  If/when you sell it, it will all have to go back.

[plantman]

Have you ever considered a cabover truck like a Nissan or a Mitsubishi ? I used to own a Mitsubishi and loved it but it was only a 4 cylinder diesel and you can't compare the power of a new 6.7l Ford diesel to one of these trucks. However I did tow a sizable trailer with it for years. Hino is another great truck with bullet proof mechanics.
I just spent $60k (plus $5k for extended warrantee !)on my new Ford F550 extended cab chassis and it doesn't even have a bed on it yet. That's a lot of money. I've seen some older trucks that were previously fire trucks that I could have converted and not had to worry about astronomical repair bills associated with these complicated computerized new trucks. I love simple. I also own a '89 Chevy C50 truck with a gas engine but it has a manual trans with a 2 speed rear. That truck could pull a house down and it cost me less than $10k.

[Brandon1986]

Good article about the 6.0.. a few things I don't agree on, like "if 1 injector is bad replace 1" well if that 1 is worn out.... there are above average odds the rest of them are worn out too... defunct is a different story, but worn out... not so much... Other wise great arcticle.. I'd actually really like to have a 6.0 its my favorite body style... I just want a scrapped one.. When they were new and ford was replacing them all the time the repair was $15,000 (or so a friend of mine who had to have his done told me)... a cummins conversion kit with the long block included is $8000... half the price for a combination that just won't quit... sign me up

[Bruno of NH]

They make special rims and tires for SRW one tons called super singles that's what i would run.
They make a big improvement on towing

[D6c]

I'm not really a Ford guy but I'd bet the difference in GVW between singles & duals on F350 is not very much.

[plantman]

A few years ago I purchase a F350 dually and I was pleasantly surprised at the smooth ride of the truck owing to the fact that dual rear wheels appear to ride over the pot holes and bumps better than a single wheel. In my experience dual wheels provide a much more stable towing vehicle and if the brakes on your trailer ever fail to work the dual wheels of the truck are able to stop the everything much better.

[Idiocrates]

These trucks are all equipped with manual 4 speed transmissions and note that I didn't say they are new or even close to new.  I don't know the exact year model but I'm pretty sure the reason they are still in service is because we have never been able to find suitable replacements.  Also, these trucks are specialty modified to include pto driven gear pumps, WEPS units and over-built suspension to carry the extra load.  I'm pretty sure the guys who added all this stuff took liberties with the drive train as well so for all I know it might have been an axle from a semi rig!  Switch in or down on the gear shift you get low range performance.  Throttle wide open in low gear and the driver could get out and walk along beside the truck and help fight the fire.  Switch out or up and cycled through all the gears and there were only police cars that could beat us to the scene.  The single weakest link on all these trucks has proven to be universal joints and drive lines.

[Brandon1986]

In my experience dual wheels provide a much more stable towing vehicle and if the brakes on your trailer ever fail to work the dual wheels of the truck are able to stop the everything much better.

How do you figure? the brakes are still the same size right?......

[Ox]

Probably the thought that there's two more tires touching the road giving more surface for grab.

[plantman]

Well keep this in mind, a cab chassis F350 is not the same thing as a F350 pickup. The cab chassis is made heavier because they anticipate that you will be putting a dump body or service body on it . So the frame is heavier. The brakes might be heavier as well, not sure. Go to a dealer and just look at the frame of a cab chassis vs a pickup.
As far as breaking goes, if you are pulling trailer of any kind and that trailer didn't have breaks you would notice that breaking is a lot easier with dual rear wheels simply because single rear wheels are apt to skid . If you buy a single axel trailer I believe that they are not required to put breaks on the axel. All dual axel trailers are required to have breaks on both axels. If a saw mill doesn't come with breaks I would ask them how much extra for breaks. Regardless of whether you have breaks or not I would suggest getting a dually truck unless you are constantly driving in a tight city environment or plowing snow residentially on small driveways. And if you are planning on a gooseneck hitch I would go with the cab chassis and a flatbed, preferably a heavy weight aluminum bed. Here is one company that makes a decent body. http://www.tgsales.com/alumbeds.html Steel is ok but and easy to fix but it's heavy and rusts so a aluminum body is nice and pays for itself over time. Plus you'll never have to worry about dents and rust in a pickup truck bed.

[plantman]

Oh, and if you anticipate loading the truck over 50% of the time such as with a camper I would go with a F450 or F550. 

[Kbeitz]

Ahhh... Littl 1/2 ton will do it...



 



 

[plantman]

Ha Ha !!! But you'll notice those are old trucks. My point exactly. Today's trucks are not built like they were 40 years ago. Yes , they claim the horse power is high but they don't gear anything like they used to . In the 70's you could buy a F250 that would pull a house down in low gear for about $5 or $6k. Today a F250 cost $40k is good for going to the supermarket and it's designed to need $15k in repairs by the time it gets to 100k miles. Just look at cars. They don't even have bumpers anymore. I don't mean the bumpers are weak. I mean they literally don't even have bumpers. It's a plastic nose !

[Kbeitz]

Thats one reason that I still own my very first truck.
1967 as it looks today.



 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Today's trucks are not built like they were 40 years ago.

See I would argue that todays 1/2 ton trucks are built way better than a 3/4 ton from the 70's or 80's.

They have things like disc brakes, dual piston calipers, large rotors, more horsepower, more transmission gears, stronger frames, higher capacity tires, better cooling systems, more reliable, etc.

[Ox]

I would argue the same thing.  The frames especially seem to be much better.  At least in construction.  I like the simplicity of the older carbureted vehicles from a gearhead's point of view.  If I could take today's vehicle and pair it with yesterday's big block engine with RV cam and NP 435  transmission with a NP 205 transfer case and Dana 60/80 I'd be satisfied!

I wonder if finding a nice southern truck and boxing the frame would be an option?

[Brandon1986]

Having spent the last 20 years of my 30 year life working on both new and old trucks I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt the new ones are CERTIANLY built better.. here are a couple case in points I can give from experience in working on our fleet.. 2012 F350 ball joints, 1999 T800 Kenworth... ball joints are the SAME SIZE! 99 F550 frame 3/8" channel... 99 Kenworth T800 frame 3/8" Channel.... I am AMAZED how much larger components are on average pick ups these days.. You didn't get 100,000 miles on a truck 30 years ago or if you did it was wrung out.. now.. I don't hardly call one broke in until 100,000.. I was thinking about it a week ago, in the 80's you would buy a brand new truck for about $15k (again I was quite young so my memory may be a bit skewed) and expect 100k out of it.. these days you pay 30k for a base model and get at least 200k out of it... are we REALLY that much worse off.... I don't know...

Responding to the brake question above, I did think about that after I posted.. I VERY rarely run brakes hard.. the last time I can remember skidding the tractor and trailer brakes was actually with an f350 dualie pulling about 10k at 60mph when someone jumped out RIGHT in front of me... that was...........2005 I want to say.. About the cab and chassis vs fleetside pickup.. it depends on the year and the make.. 3 months ago I replaced spring hangars on that afore mentioned f350 and the frame on that 1997 was the same thickness as the 1997 f250 crew cab I did the same thing to a year previous... I will add the brakes were also the same... 

[Magicman]

Yup, engines got their first "overhaul" at 75k miles and few made it to the second.  Most 100k vehicles went to the junkyard.  But let's not forget that our engine lubes are much better now.  MPG was much worse, but we were also carrying much more weight.

Another subject but tires got 10k-15k miles.  I want to put some "grip" tires on my truck.  It has 57k miles on it and the factory tires seemingly just won't wear out. 

[plantman]

If you're using a truck for work and either loading it with weight or pulling something heavy then the most important thing to you is torque, not horsepower. I used to own a 78 ford F250 with a 300 cu in straight 6 cyl. with a 4 speed manual trans. That truck had torque ! The first gear was for pulling . Didn't even start in first if the truck was empty. I have a 2003 Ford F350 with a 5.7 liter V8 and it has no torque. This might be because it's an automatic. My new F550 has a 6 speed automatic with is a lot better and I can drive it while drinking coffee but I would much rather have a manual. I think the best thing to do is drive each truck. You can feel a big difference when you drive a truck with torque. But if you're going to pull around a 2500 lb trailer that's nothing and you don't need a lot of torque for that. The diesel is a lot more expensive but in my opinion you buy a F350 because you want a work truck and that gas engine is under powered for most applications.

[Gearbox]

Plantman Now your statement that a 300 ford 6 had torque . I will disagree they were a gutless wonder at low RPM and the only thing that made them pull was that granny low tranny . The one thing that Jarhead has got going for him if he buy's a diesel is He won't be running in salt . So the body will last out the diesel .

[thecfarm]

plantman,did you put the 6 into a 250? Did not think there was many around bought new that way.
I put a 300 into a 1976 HD 4wd 250. I got a good deal on the 300 and did the change. I went from a 360 to a 300. I had a heck of a time to find all of the brackets I needed for the power steering,alternator and so on. No such exhaust pipe was made for that truck. I took a chance and bought a 300 exhaust and had it bent a few times to make it fit.I never did alot of long pulling with it. Most I went away from the house was one time and that was 40 miles one way. Top speed was not much more than 50 and and really anything above that,the rear end was just howling. I hauled a 40hp tractor from my Father's place to here,about 10 minutes away.

[plantman]

I never said the 300 cu in engine was a gutless wonder. I said it was a great torquey engine and transmission. A straight engine is a great design which is why cummins uses a straight design. Ford uses a diesel V engine because they basically modified a gas engine. People today want trucks that drive like cars . Well you can't have a truck that does 0 - 60 in 5 seconds and still have a high torque engine and transmission. I believe that Ford got rid of some of these great engines and transmissions because they were too good. You didn't need to buy a diesel if you bought one of these engine and transmission combinations.
It's been a long time since I sold that truck. I hardly recall if it was a F150 or a F250. I probably bought that back in the mid 80's and sold it 10 years later to a guy who knew how good the 300 engine was. That truck probably got about 20 mpg and was so reliable that I could drive it anywhere. I sold it because the body got a little rough . I'm so nostalgic for that truck because it was so simple and reliable. I think I'm going to find one out of the south . Does everyone  realize how absurdly expensive new trucks are today ? I think the price of these new trucks has far surpassed the rate of inflation. 

[thecfarm]

plantman,probably a 150,½ ton. My truck got about 10 miles to the gallon.Did not matter if the body was full of wood, or I had the tractor behind or empty. I did not drive it much,I did have another truck with,a ½ ton with a 300 in it.

[lshobie]

I have a new ford f350 with the single  and 6.7 - love that truck to death the power is nuts that comes out of it.  I had the choice of single  or dually and went with single, dually are not good in the snow or mud, the single doesnt have as much footprint so it works way better in our environment especially in the winter.  tire changes don't cost near as much either - and here you need a CVOR if you buy a dually - log books and more regulation.  I also live in a city so parking is challenging enough with the crew cab long box single:)