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I still hate edging but... Pictures added of the whole process below

Started by WV Sawmiller, August 01, 2016, 07:50:35 PM

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WV Sawmiller

   Okay. I admit it. I still hate stopping to edge my boards on the mill and since I mostly try to do mobile sawing I can never justify buying even the small single blade edger like WM makes (even though I do love to see them at work).

   A couple of tricks I have picked up (that most of you may have already known for years) is:

1. I edge nearly everything against a cant. I cut the cant to the next mark below the thinnest/narrowest board I plan to edge (Okay many of us do this so not real new) then stop and edge the resume cutting boards from the cant when all the flitches are edged.

2. When edging a single flitch and it is too thin for the clamps to hold laying an already cut 4/4 or 8/4 board flat/horizontal on the mill and clamping it tight against the single flitch to be edged. I used to use 2 to 3 strips or a scrap board on edge vertically for the flitch to tighten the gap till Marty Parsons showed me this trick at our last local workshop. It works much better this way as it spreads the tension against the flitch further than just at the clamping point (Thanks Marty - everybody should go to all the shows they can to pick up small tricks like this which help us be better sawyers).

3. When sawing outside flitches with a lot of taper I put the flitch to be edged against the cant with the narrow end at the back of the mill then raise the toeboard so the portion to be edged is pretty well level the whole length. After the cut I flip the flitch and lower the toeboard and cut the widest board possible. This makes it easier for me to see that I may be able to choose between cutting an 8' 1X8 or a 10' 1X6.

4. Staging several flitches on sawhorses - if only 1-2 flitches off a small board I sometimes accumulate several to edge at one time (although in all honesty I usually edge them against the cant they came off of).

5. I now edge to standard 2" widths in nearly all cases. I used to cut truly random widths and gang edge flitches lowering 1" at a time while cutting boards off the cant till I got a smooth edge then flip that board till both edges were edged. (This also generated my stacking strips or tomato stakes). It is much easier for me to stack and store and compute the final product when cut to standard widths.

    Several of the steps above help maximize the yield but are not conducive to production sawing. Edging single flitches works okay for high value lumber you are selling and for the hobby sawyer for his own use but it is not going to yield a lot of bf very fast when sawing by the hour or custom sawing by the bf for a living.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

woodmills1

slabs/edgings with 1 inch drops are just way to tedious.  Good tips you post.

James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

killamplanes

We all do it different. Of course im not cutting customers logs there mine. But all my flitches I put back on mill for edging having bark I cut for pallet 3.5 in start at top all the way down. And I wait until I have a full deck 25-30in worth of edging to do. Any boards with bark on1 side clean side down so that one will be clean etc. I may have slightly more waste to my methods but seperating board by width and edging them in several runs doe'snt pay for my time In alot of lower end wood. But I always make sure blade is in great shape when edging 25inches worth of boards because a wave screws up alot of lumber. I do change the way I sort for edging if im looking for wider boards, But I usually keep the wider lumber for further in the log so I don't have to mess with bark edges.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Chop Shop

I hate it just from listening to every one here talk about what fun it is!

This is why I got a MD and Lucas!   My bandsaw just feeds the dust mites now!  :D

Kbeitz

I save all my edging for the end of the week.
Then I mount this contraption on my saw and
saw away....



 



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

WDH

HATE for edging on the mill is an understatement, especially with a manual mill.  It is a back-breaker.  If you saw a lot of wood, an edger will set you free  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Bruno of NH

I need to get set free :)
I'm hoping for the spring
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

WV Sawmiller

kbeitz,

   That is the most sophisticated edging clamping system I have seen and I am sure it does a great job. I am impressed with it  but as I mentioned before it obviously is not for a high production use nor is any single board system ever going to be.

    Waiting a week to edge would cause me big problems with space limitations and would be out of the question on mobile sawing jobs where the goal is to get in and out quickly.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Weekend_Sawyer

Kbeitz,

I would love to see how you mount your contraption to the mill.
As a weekend warrior I can't justify an edger.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Larry

A couple of things I do to lessen the misery.

With big logs I'll saw a couple  of flitches and let them stay on the log.  Before turning to the next face I rotate the log so those flitches will slide off onto the loading arms.  I use the clamp to rotate the log towards the loader side.

When I'm ready to edge I lift the loader arms so the flitches slide back onto the bed of the mill.  Than I stand em up with the clamp and log turner.  I did modify my loader arms for additional lift...not TK approved.

When sawing something like 6 or 8/4 trailer decking the above is my sop.  I'm to old and lazy (mostly lazy) to be flipping heavy flitches.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

OneWithWood

Don't forget the "I like live edges" crowd.  Not everything needs to be edged.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

WV Sawmiller

Larry,

   I also sometimes leave several of the flitches on the log/cant and push them on the arms at the same time. I have seen Marty do the flip technique on a super hydraulic mill to throw the flitches on the arms but my hydraulics are too slow to lift them fast enough IMO so I do them by hand. You may have the chain turner on your TK mill which I don't have. I also lift the arms to slide the flitches back for edging to reduce my lifting.

   I often leave several finished boards on the cant until I cut down to about 3-1/4" (normal height I stop sawing and start edging 4/4 stock and edging down to 1X4 board widths or 5/12" cant if not edging narrower than 1X6's), remove the boards to a waiting trailer, edge, stack the edged boards then cut the last 3-5 finished boards as the case may be to finish up the cant. When I finish this final stack I raise the end toeboard to roll them as close to the trailer as I can to further reduce excess and unnecessary lifting. (Never lift both ends of a board at one time if you can help it - CustomSawyer advice, right?)

   I am also now a firm believer in using my cheat sheet to eliminate the need of a trim cut at the end of the job.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Sixacresand

Generally, I push flitches onto the mill loading arms until I finish most of the cant. I edge every thing before I start a new log.  If I realize I cut a slab too thick, I'll slide it off on the loading arms to re-mill and edge, even for a short board.  Edging is tedious work, but with a good offbearer who knows what to do, it is not that bad.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

terrifictimbersllc

Edging goes easier for me if I cut around all 4 sides of the log before making a lot of flitches. The flitches are easier to edge then when they don't have a lot of taper.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Sixacresand on August 02, 2016, 03:45:27 PM
If I realize I cut a slab too thick, I'll slide it off on the loading arms to re-mill and edge, even for a short board.  Edging is tedious work, but with a good offbearer who knows what to do, it is not that bad.

6Acres,

   I misjudged my first cut on a 12' ash yesterday I was cutting for 2X6's so set it aside to resaw as you describe in trying to open a 6"+ face. In this case I recovered an 8' 1X8 and an 8' 1X6. In all honesty, usually when I try to resaw like this I regret it as the thick slabs are hard to clamp, tend to want to rise up on one end or the other and as often as not yield scrap flitches that go on the boneyard but you have to try.

   At home there is no off bearer so that is very seldom a factor. On custom jobs it is a the customer and he is generally inexperienced.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Carson-saws

OneWithWood....very good point Sir.... for me early on, I had a "D70"   what is a D70?....well..it was my   D-ad at age 70...with a set of sawhorses...snap line and circle saw.
Let the Forest be salvation long before it needs to be

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: WDH on August 02, 2016, 08:16:46 PM
HATE

   Okay, I give up. Are you indicating my terminology is too harsh?

   I admit edging is not my least favorite thing in life but it is a necessary inconvenience for a sawyer.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

5quarter

What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

customsawyer

The easiest way to sell a edger is to let someone babysit one of your edgers for awhile and then let them know you have to get it back.  ;D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

WDH

I have heard that that (Tom) works too.

WV, no, not harsh enough  :D.

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

slider

Sorry WDH but the deal between you and Customsawyer was a bait and switch and you fell for it hook line and sinker.It was well planned before hand and you did not see it coming.
al glenn

Sixacresand

My worst hot day edging on the mill is better than going to the mall shopping.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

DMcCoy

Quote from: customsawyer on August 03, 2016, 02:17:43 AM
The easiest way to sell a edger is to let someone babysit one of your edgers for awhile and then let them know you have to get it back.  ;D


Yup,,,, Convincing someone that some piece of equipment you rarely use is perfect for a job they need to do....and it is..... so you rarely see it again.  :) 

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: WDH on August 03, 2016, 07:30:02 AM
I have heard that that (Tom) works too.

WV, no, not harsh enough  :D.



WDH,

   Thanks for clearing that up. I thought I'd broken a rule and was headed for the woodshed.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Brad_bb

When posting tips like this, it sure would be nice to do it in video form.  It would be a lot easier to understand by watching and listening.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Bandmill Bandit

WV I edge ALL fliches in the sawing progress of the log they came off of. Pretty much as you describe with a few minor adjustments. They all get stacked on the loader arms and Get pulled up as the cant size is reduced to the height conducive to maximizing the edged board width. By doing it the way you describe production numbers stay up where I like them as long as I am not sawing pecker poles.

I keep a 6 foot 3x3 under the mill to put between the clamp and the flitches to keep them straight to help the fliches edge a better.

An example of my process cutting 8/4x8 and 6; I would pull up the flitches that will give me the finished 8 inch desired width and take the cut for the first edge along with 8/4x8 plank off of a 12 inch cant. Pull back open clamp and flip the flitches that have a nice flat side, and take another plank and edge the other side of the flitches I flipped leaving me  with up to 7 or 8 finished planks on that cut.

IF there are 6" width planks in the flitchs that remain on the loader arms they now get pulled up and the first edge is cut to get a flat edge on those flitches WITHOUT taking a plank off the cant. Flip the flitches and take the next cut at 6" height. you will have a 2x8 and some 2x6s with 1 more cut to finish that cant off and all the edging done. The only cut in the cant that didnt give you a finished plank is the one that edged the first edge on the pulled up 6" flitch stock and that was the 2nd last cut in the cant. I hope y'all can understand my description.

Sixacres
Id edge for a week before Id go shopping for an hour.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Brad_bb on August 03, 2016, 09:34:17 AM
When posting tips like this, it sure would be nice to do it in video form.  It would be a lot easier to understand by watching and listening.

Brad,

   I love to watch other people's videos and agree they are helpful but as a one man show it is more complicated than I am interested in. Plus once I made it I'd have to figure how to post it to YouTube or such then figure how to link it. I am still crawling when posting pictures to this site. If you have seen the quality of my pictures on my simple point and shoot you know what I mean. None of these steps are impossible but have not risen to the "Must do" level yet. I tell people my mental hard drive is full, if I learn something new I have to do a partial memory dump forget something I used to know and it might be something my wife told me to do and I'd be in even more trouble :D.

BB,

   I start exactly as you describe. I have not tried putting a 3X3 on the opposite side of my flitches and may try that. I cut a bunch of real wide boards (18 - 20 inch) the other day and did not have enough width left between the cant and the moveable clamp face to edge more than a couple of 4/4 flitches for my 23" max board cut. I admit that is unusual and will try to 3X3 for most applications. Thanks for the suggestion.

    When edging a flitch with a lot of taper I look at the edge width and may re-edge for a second cut. Example: I edge a 2X6X12 off a wide tapered flitch then may put the edged part back on and salvage a 2X4X8 out of it. I assume most of us do this.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Bandmill Bandit

WV

I do that too with wide very tapered flitches. I also will adjust the height of the wide tapered flitches using a small block as a "toeboard" to hold up narrow end of the flitch so I can get max lumber out of it.

I would love another 4 inches of throat capacity!

With wide flitches I have developed a method of stacking them on the arms where I can lift them with the arms so that they slide onto the deck just enough so I can pull them over with the clamp and stand them up, clamp them and edge them without touching them.

Works best with good help to stack the flitches on the arms.

The 3X3 works best for 4/4 and 6/4 planks. I dont use it with 8/4.
The 3X3 I have came out of a stressed log that gave it about a natural 1 inch bow so it works very well holding flitches tight and straight.

I tried a 6 foot piece of 2x2 steel tubing and it works good but too heavy IMO. 
 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

WDH

Slider,

I have been took advantage of  :).   Thanks for pointing that out. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

slider

I could not help my self Danny.Don't feel bad he tried to sell me a 9 year old lawn mower for about what he gave for it brand new.
al glenn

NCDiesel

Here's what I do for "ordinary" wood:  The taper end of the log is loaded facing the "home" position of the sawhead. Then I cut the biggest post I can out of the log by whittling each face down 1" or 4/4 at a time.

After doing several logs, I have a whole mess of flitches and live edge boards.  I load them on edge onto the bed -randomly, not trying to be pretty or use some rhyme or reason, and clamp them down.  I start by dropping my blade 3/4" at a time to make stickers.   Soon 1/3 of the flitches have a clean edge.   I remove that third.  I continue cutting down 3/4" at a time till the next third have a clean edge.  I remove those; then I cut the last third.   Now that these boards have a straight edge, they can be "carpenter" edged by the final consumer at the point of use(usually me) after drying to whatever final width they need/managed to get.  If I want 4 straight edges I just continue the process, loading each third back up on the bed and cutting stickers till each third has a 4th, straight edge.

Presto:   Lots of boards, lots of stickers, very little waste, all using a process that take 30 minutes at best - another 30 to cut stickers to length and transport/stack wood.

PS:   I keep no flitch that is not at least 2/3 the length of the log.   Less is slab pile wood.
PSS:   Again, this is ordinary wood like pine and popular.  Something like walnut would be treated differently.

Hope this helps,
NCDiesel
Cooks MP-32, 2016 Ram 1500, 6K Kaufman Equip. Trailer, 1995 Bobcat 753 skidsteer 1958 Ford 861 Diesel,
Youth Conservation Corps, Clayton Ranger District, 1977.
I worked sawmills as a teenager and one fall morning I came to work and smelled walnut cutting.  I have loved sawmills ever sinc

WV Sawmiller

NC,

   That is pretty much what I used to do when I was cutting truly random width boards and generating tomato stakes and edging strips (I cut in 1" drops). I would even have a cant loaded with flitches on the side so every cut I generated a new board/flitch and cut a 1" strip off my stack of flitches to be edged. I even learned to take a 2' sticker and put under smooth edged flitches/boards as a pivot point to free them from the rest of the stack. Now when truly edging I do smaller numbers and cut to 2" widths.

   I got my anchorseal re-supply yesterday and bucked and dragged some more ash logs to the mill. I will try to get a few pictures of a good example of this entire process and include to this post in the next day or so.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

rasman57

Quote from: Brad_bb on August 03, 2016, 09:34:17 AM
When posting tips like this, it sure would be nice to do it in video form.  It would be a lot easier to understand by watching and listening.

X2 ...     as it is good stuff to learn from the guys that have lots of great ideas based on experience.   Hard to visualize a couple of those.

Sixacresand

I dealt with a hollow/rotten-in-the-center cedar logs today ;D.  Pretty much all the decent lumber which came from the sides had to be edged on the mill. :o
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Jim_Rogers

Edging lumber should/could be divided into two sections. What I mean is one is softwoods and one is hardwoods.
The off trims are different for me from one to the other.
On softwoods, I stand up a flitch, round edge both sides, one at a time. I measure the lowest point on the piece that will make a clean edge from one end to the other. If there is enough above this cut for a 1x4 to a sellable length such as 8' long then I would cut that piece off. If the piece will not be a full length piece (8') then I'd trim it by cutting 2" wide strips. These will be stacked and air dried to become 4' stickers. These will be full 1" thick by 2" wide by 4' long. Stacked and stickered on a pallet for air drying.

After one side is cut, I flip it over and cut to a standard width. Such as 4", 6", 8", 10" and 12" I don't cut 5" pieces as some mills do. And I don't usually cut or store for random walk in sales anything wider than 12".
I drop 2" per trim until the second side cleans up. Saving all these trims if there is a section that is at least 4' long for stickers.

After I have a good stack of long sticker strips on hand, I'll plug in the chop saw and cut 4' stickers and stack them neatly on a pallet for air drying. All waste from the chop saw is cut 16" long for firewood starter kindling.

Now, hardwoods are some what different. My secondary product from edging hardwoods are stakes.  Grade stakes are 4' long and hay bale stakes are 3' long. To make stock for stakes I drop the thickness of the stakes which in my case is 1 1/8" same as the standard thickness of side lumber off my cants. These long strips of lumber, I call squares as they are square, that are longer than 3' are saved for the chop saw trimming.

If I'm edging 2" hardwood planks for trailer decking or some other lumber, I cut 1 1/8" thick strips. This takes time but you are making/using up this lumber into something that you will sell, later on. Later on after these are cut to shorter lengths, I'll put them back on the mill and cut them into squares.
It may seem like a lot of extra work but it makes money in the long run.

Sometimes I do "gang edge" a whole logs' worth of flitches but this can (I feel) easily make mistakes and over cut one of the center pieces of the stack. And I feel like I'm wasting wood. So that's why I usually cut or edge one piece at a time. Some of you may say that my method is wasteful of my time as the mill can cut more than one flitch at a time, but I like the method I use and it works for me. And my custom sawing customers.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

paul case

Quote from: Sixacresand on August 03, 2016, 08:30:08 AM
My worst hot day edging on the mill is better than going to the mall shopping.

x2
PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

WV Sawmiller

Jim,

   You are the first member I have noted who uses 2" wide stickers. Maybe more do but I just never noticed. I use 1" square stickers. I air dry them just like my finished lumber. I generally cut them 3' long now because that matches the free pallets I have access to stack on. It is convenient as when someone looks at them (like yesterday the customer said he did not know how many pieces per bf as 4", 6" & 8' widths) I tell them since they are 8' long there are 24 bf per layer. (1" thick X36"wideX8'long). Would be 36 bf if 10' length, 48 bf if 12, etc.

    I use my recently acquired radial arm saw to cut to length and trim boards as necessary. I have not developed a market for the kindling and grade stakes like you have and I envy you for that.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

I have continually read this thread with interest.  For me, edging is a mind set.  OK, I disliked edging when I first started sawing and had not developed any rhythm or technique for flitch handling.  Since edging pays just as much as sawing a log, I accept it as just part of the job.  As with other sawing operations, hydraulics is a life saver. 

I edge as I saw and I do not use lumber or a cant as a backer.  I have a 1X2 that I always carry which serves as a spacer when I get down to two flitches.  Edging 4-6 flitches works best for me.  My target is always whatever lumber the customer wants.  Any short lumber that is not on the customer's cut list is either free to the customer or sawed into stickers.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

paul case

It is my least fav of the whole thing, but you have to do it if you plan to get the most lumber from a log.
I make a lot of pallet stringers from lower grade logs and generally I can turn a whole log into 1.25x3.5 and only have 1 or 2 flitches to edge. It isn't pretty but I think it is the fastest way to make stringers. I find it is easier for me to edge a lot of boards for stringers on the mill  if I am working alone. The edger I have pretty well takes 2 people unless you need a lot of exercise running around the thing to catch every couple boards.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

WV Sawmiller

Lynn,

   I have started using the cant as backing because I find I have trouble keeping my flitches vertical/square cut using just the side supports especially on the first cut when both edges are still round. They want to lean giving me a less than 90 degree cut. I find gang cutting hard to keep the flitches together, especially when cutting narrower widths like 1X4s without the cant. I'd have a heck of a time gang cutting 6- 1X4s at one time without them all springing out of the stack. I find there is a fine line between not enough tension on the clamp to hold the wood and too much causing it to want to rise up, especially on the final cut when only using about 3/4" to allow the blade to pass over for that last 4/4 off the cant, actually splitting the cant into 2 - 4/4 boards.

   My normal practice is to use the cant they came off of, normally when it is down to 3-1/4" for normal 4/4 cuts. By that time the cant is perfectly squared and will not generate another flitch for edging. I used to use a 2X2 or similar strip as a spacer but Marty's tip of laying a finished board down flat works better for me because it keeps more tension on all the side supports, not just in the center where the clamp is. If the board has a slight bow it actually even works better but it is whatever I have handy most of the time.

   We each find and use what works for us but I bet none of us are not willing to try a new tip once in a while. What I have learn is mimicking what I have seen and read of others for the most part.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 05, 2016, 08:41:55 AM
Jim,

   You are the first member I have noted who uses 2" wide stickers.

When we first started out back in 94, we only had the sawmill and a pile of logs. We had to make everything we needed. One of the first things we needed were blocks to stack the lumber on and then stickers to stick the lumber. And these stickers had to be dry so that we didn't leave a sticker stain or sticker shadow on our high quality lumber.
To dry stickers we build a "solar" sticker drier. We'd load it up with oak stickers. And let them dry for 30 days or so and then paint the ends of the stickers with red paint so we'd know that they were dry stickers.
My brother was helping me at the time, and he read a book called the drier's handbook, and I thought he read that they recommend 1" x 1 1/2" stickers. But that's what we started with.

Then later on we started milling pine lumber and it seemed like a lot of extra work to trim the sticker strips down from 2" to 1 1/2" to match this recommendation. So we only saved oak strips in 1 1/2" widths. And we'd make 2" strips to be cut back by chop saw to 4' lengths. We called these "give away" stickers. As most custom sawing customers wanted "dry" stickers and we didn't want to "give away" any of our prized "solar dried" stickers.  So we'd give away some of the dry pine stickers. After a while we decided that we weren't going to "give away" any more stickers do to the time we put into making them and drying them. So now I don't give them away, I sell them.

When I cut out a "truck barn" for a tree service company, many years ago, I saved all the sticker strips into a large pile next to the chop saw station. I cut out 60 logs for his truck barn. After a while the pile was huge. One day I took the time and I chopped up all the stickers. It made up 5 pallets of stickers. I placed these in the back of the lumber yard and would use them up as I needed them to sell or use to store lumber.
After a while I used up all 5 pallets.
Now I only have one on hand.

After running many batches of oak stickers through the drier we eventually got to a point where we had all the dry oak stickers that we needed. And discontinued using the solar drier.

Now I have a pallet where I store my oak stickers when they become available and several pallets of "pine" stickers for sale and use.

Sticker pallet drawing:



  

Drawing of a sticker pallet loaded with stickers:



 

Stickers and sticker pallet behind cut off saw:



 

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Magicman

Howard, I should not have indicated something that I "never" do because I guess that I occasionally do everything.  A more accurate statement would have been "whatever the occasion requires".   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Sixacresand

Since we talking about stickers, I might as well tell you all about mine.  I build pallets for lumber two feet wide and cut stickers 25 inches.  Two feet wide because that fits my log arch.  I bundle up several 1x1's, mark them every 25 inches and cut the whole bundle with a chain saw, catching them in a wheel barrel, then stack them for air drying.  Most of all this is done on a wide board on the loading arms, which makes a good work platform.  1x1's dry pretty quick during the summer.  Most of my stickers are made from left overs during the edging process.  If I mill on the road, I carry about 25 long 1x1's to get started and cut them to length on site.  After all of those are used up, a new batch has been generated from edging on site.  Green  stickers are better than none.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

WV Sawmiller

6Acre,

   I used to cut my stickers with a chainssaw in a jig I made out of scrap lumber but since I got the Radial Arm Saw I mostly cut them on it. I have marks in 1' increments and cut to the nearest foot from 3' down. I do keep a stock of 2' and even 1' stickers as I often find an odd length board to sticker.

   I often take a dozen or so precut stickers to a mobile sawing job to get started till we generate more green stickers on site. Yes, dry is better and I have plenty for sale but most customers choose not to buy them so I use what is available.

   My stacks on pallets look similar to what Jim posted. I put 3 stickers down then a row across the top and repeat for 3' stickers. As mentioned they air dry pretty quickly in my open sided shed.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WV Sawmiller

   Okay, been trying to take pictures but weather, out of town and in town guests have delayed me till this afternoon. Just had a few ash logs to cut into 4/4 boards. Biggest log I used in pictures below was about 16" average diameter and 8'6" long. I'll post as the whole process occurred as best I can.



 
The log is loaded on the mill with any heart check as vertical as I can get it for first 2 cuts.


 
Loading arms positioned out of the way of the saw head but ready to stage flitches for future edging.

 
I take the first cut to open a 4-6 inch face and toss this slab on the scrap pile.


 
Using my SimpleSet I take off 2 1" thick flitches and toss them on the loading arms then rotate to log 180 degrees. I make sure the thickness of this cant is as desired for my final boards. In this case I was able to get 10" boards.


 
I rotate the cant 90 degrees, clamp it then drop the head to cut off most of the wane on the 3rd side then cut a flitch or two.


 
I rotate the cant 180 degrees for the final cut and set my scale at a predetermined mark off my cheat sheet so that I run out exactly on the last board with no extra trim cuts required.


  
10" on my scale works perfectly for me when cutting 4/4 stock.


 
Using SS again I make 1" cuts. The first couple are flitches with a little wane, then I get into finished boards. I cut till the cant height, in this case is 5-1/2" thick, I remove the finished boards then a place and clamp a couple of flitches against the cant for edging then edge the boards to the desired thicknesses, in this case 8" and 6".


 
In this case I cut one finished board to 8" but needed to cut the second to 6" so I lifted one end of the 1X8, put a 1X1 sticker under it as a pivot. When I push down the other end pops up out of the stack and I can slide it over on the can and go stack it. (Not really necessary when only 2 flitches being edged but if it was a finished board in the middle of a stack of 6-8 flitches this tip is real handy). When I finish edging I reset my SS to 5.5" then saw my cant down to the rails finishing exactly on my last board.


  

 
Its even easier after you edge one side as now you have a square surface against the rails.


 
In this case I had a wide flitch with a heart check splitting the board so I stood it next to my cant, edged just below the split, flipped the board/flitch and edged off another inch to completely remove the split then edged the wane off both to get 2 finished 1X4's that I can use or sell instead of a wide split board nobody would want.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Peter Drouin

10"? Why not use the 4/4 scale on the mill? That's what it's for.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 09, 2016, 06:36:08 AM
10"? Why not use the 4/4 scale on the mill? That's what it's for.
Peter,

   I bare my soul once again - I don't use my quarter scale. I never learned how and with simpleset and a cheat sheet I have already determined my mark points to start and it works well. (Its really doing the same thing).

   This cant worked out to be 10" to start my cut below the bark for a decent board, others might be 12-1/4", 5-1/2", etc. I look at the cant and check my notes then start accordingly. I stop at the next mark immediately below the flitches to be edged. Example 5-1/2" if I do not want edge any boards smaller than 6" wide or 3-1/4" if I'm doing 4" wide. When done edging, I reset my SS then saw the cant to the rails.

   I guess if my SS ever dies I will have to use the quarter scale or just stop sawing.

    My slab pile is in dire need to attention. I thought I had a sale for some campfire wood and let this build up but that does not appear to be working out so I will catch a rainy day and burn it. Have to keep the fire low as I have fruit trees close by.



 
This is the picture of edging one flitch using a finished board like Marty Parsons showed me. It keeps good tension the whole length of the flitch even though the flitch is too thin to clamp without the board. For some reason it dropped of the earlier post.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

cutterboy

WV Sawmiller, Thanks for taking the time to post all those pictures and the explanations. It is so much easier to understand when you can see it.
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Sixacresand

Does anyone mill boards from an oversized cant and edge the boards to the desired width?  When milling, for example 2x6's, i will mill a cant down to 7 inches wide, with the pith centered.  Then I will mill seven inch wide boards from top to bottom, flipping 180 at least once.  If there is any stress relieved, the board will bend.  Now I edge off a half inch on each side of the stack to get straighter 2x6's.   Usually an inch oversized will take care of it.  If edging does not straighten it out, then I down size it or make stickers.  I hate to waste the wood, but better than generating a whole cant's worth of bent lumber.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

WV Sawmiller

6Acre,

   I have never tried that but I may in the future if I have a cant that looks to have a lot of stress showing.

   If the cant is pretty straight and cutting 2X6's I just cut a 6" wide cant, rotate it 90 degrees trim the wane off side #3, rotate 180 then set my blade at the desired starting point then set my SS at 2-1/8" and slice down to the rails. If there was sweep in the log to start I have already cut the horns and hump off so if the board does bow it generally curves to the thin side/width and can be nailed into place when used. If building and any bow in my rafters I always turn the hump up.

   Thanks for the suggestion.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

terrifictimbersllc

I've done that before when I see crook is going to be a problem or if I see that a cant "can't" be trusted or don't want to go for the perfect width cut on a very wide cant. Like when wanting to turn out perfect long 2x. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

WDH

In the big pine mills, they saw oversize, kiln dry to 19%, and run the boards through a 4-sided planer to clean up and straighten the boards.  Us small bandmillers usually rough saw to final dimension and the boards are not usually run through a planer, much less a 4-sided planer.  So, we have much more issues with boards that are not straight. 

It would be best to saw oversize, air dry, then edge down to dimension to get perfect boards, but it is just not worth all that extra effort  :) :-\.  That is one reason why that you cannot compete with store bought framing lumber.  That and the fact that they wholesale the lumber for about 30 to 35 cents a board foot.  That includes the sawing cost and the cost of the logs.  Of course, the lumber is marked up at the lumber store.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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