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Your help appreciated with a "pulling logs up an incline" question/

Started by tallpall, July 23, 2016, 08:04:20 PM

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tallpall

  I'm not a forester.  Been thinking of clearing, splitting and stacking about 150' of trees that edge up to my back yard lawn.  I have a 27 ton splitter and two Husky chainsaws, but no vehicles that can be used in this project.  My stuff has just been used to cut stuff around the edge of the lawn that seemed to someday threaten to fall and damage something.
   The trees, the largest are around 20" diameter, but there are many 6"er's in there, are growing on a gradual downslope....maybe 20 ft down for every hundred feet back.  I need to get these logs UP to the top of the slope where I can work them (cut,split and stack into 20" pieces....we burn wood for heat) and I have just about talked myself out of any idea to do this that will fit my arbitrary $600 budget.
  So, I'm older and don't have the stamina of younger years.  Trying to make this easy on myself ...to make it possible.  How do I yank those logs up the hill without getting a heart attack?
  I've about ruled out electric drive winches.  Sure they are cheap enough but I would need a couple of deep discharge batteries and a way to quickly charge them ( I do have 110v and 220v available down where I want to work them).  The only 110v winch I've read about is a Harbor Freight jobbie, but it's only 1500 lbs pull and just a 30 foot cable.  I'd like at least 100 ft pull.  2000 lbs.
   Gas powered capstan winches are too expensive....and don't pull that much.
   My latest, greatest hope was looking at chainsaw winches.  Lewis has a proven one that costs too much.  My Huskies are supposed to directly hook up to them.  Powerhouse look alikes on Amazon and ebay fit the budget, but after experience with a 7 ton electric splitter from them I just can't buy that brand without getting all skittery.
  So that's about it.  Any ideas?

Ianab

On that budget I'd think you need to go with hand winch and some rigging.

https://www.amazon.com/286515K-2-Ton-Wire-Puller-Cable/dp/B001DJHWQM

Length of pull is only limited by how much cable you have.

OK it's going to be a bit slow, but if you take your time you wont have a heart attack.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Magicman

You seriously need a log arch to get the logs off of the ground.  Rolling is much easier than dragging, even with any kind of winch.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

danbuendgen

I see you only have a $600 limit. For a job like that.... I think you will need a tractor or four wheeler to drive down the slope and skid them up on the flat. I like the idea of a log arch. And pulling it with a four wheeler or tractor. I can see running 100' of cable down hill being a challenge. I mean, there will be lots of obstacles (stumps, rocks, ect) for your hitch to get jammed against if you don't have some hight. When I'm logging, I get the skidder are close as possible to the trees I need to skid. With the tall arch, it picks the hitch up high to clear any stumps.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

DDW_OR

Harbor Freight has a 25% coupon till Sunday 7/24/2016

do any of your vehicles have a trailer hitch?
use a long cable, two pulleys and your trailer hitch.
fasten the cable to the tree, then take the cable to pulley on the log, then back to the pulley on the tree, then to the vehicle.
this is a two line pull. so 8000# times 2 = 16,000# pull

$24 x 2 = $48
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-000lbs-New-heavy-duty-Greased-SNATCH-BLOCK-10-TON-WINCH-PULLY-20000-lbs-/172264294191?hash=item281bc0872f:g:p0oAAMXQlgtSz1TJ&vxp=mtr

$43
https://store.chainsawr.com/products/chain-choker-assembly-5-16-x-7-for-tractor-logging-winches

or you can use this to do the pull, $30
http://www.harborfreight.com/8000-lb-cable-winch-puller-69855.html



 
"let the machines do the work"

John Mc

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

AlexHart

For whatever reason I've just sat here contemplating this problem for a few minutes and here is an idea you may or may not of thought of.

If the slope is gradual and we're not talking about a long distance you might want to consider cutting the trees up where they fall and trucking them up the hill with "something"   I just did a search and there are a few craigslist DR power wagon's out there for right around your arbitrary budget.   I'm ignorant of what other kinds of powered wheelbarrow type things there are but in this day and age I would imagine there are plenty to choose from. 

Honestly if you stretched your budget a few hundred more dollars, got a power wagon, did the job, and sold the thing quickly for a couple hundred less than you paid for it I would think that would be a better solution than screwing around with harbor freight winches or whatever.   

Chop Shop

Cable, pulleys if needed to make corners etc, and a vehicle.

You cant beat a 100-250hp cable that is fast.

Even a chevette could pull a 20" log 8 feet long.

Ianab

Yeah, pulleys can give you a huge mechanical advantage.  You can buy a couple of 3 way sheave blocks and get 6X the mechanical advantage.

Means that the 100lb pull from a lawn tractor can be increased to 600 lb. Just you need to pull 6X as far to move the log. Heck the 50 lb pull you can exert can be upped to 300 lb which will drag a pretty serious log.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

HiTech

If you have a 4 wheeler that would do it. If you know someone with one and a little trailer that would do it also. Cut the trees into blocks and bring them up the hill in the trailer. You can either pay him or give him some wood. I have a skidder and bulldozer and tractor but use my 4 wheeler and little trailer to bring all my wood for my sugarhouse out with it. Works for me.

John Mc

A big question, given your budget, is whether you need to own this equipment for future use, or just get this particular job done.

If it's mostly a one-time thing, I'd just look to borrow the equipment: As someone mentioned, it's probably easier to bring your chainsaw cut them to the 20" lengths right where they lie. If you have a way to get your splitter down there (and back) you could also split them on the spot.

When I first got started burning firewood, I used an old lawn/garden tractor (my lawnmower) and a Rubbermaid cart to haul the rounds home for splitting. You'd be surprised how much you can pull with one of those if the load is up on wheels. If the ground is smooth enough, borrow a friends mower (removing the mower deck can give you some extra ground clearance), maybe put some tire chains on it if you need extra traction. An ATV would be the next step up. Or borrow/ rent a compact tractor or a pickup truck.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

WV Sawmiller

   I'd see about using a couple of $20-$25 snatch blocks (readily available from Harbor Freight, Tractor Supply, et. al.) a short chain or two to connect the snatch blocks and as much 1/4" or larger cable as I needed to pull the logs up the slope. As mentioned an ATV, garden tractor, p/u, etc should easily do the job. Might want to buck the logs to lengths your prime mover can handle.

   Hook the cable to log, another to the top and hook the other end of the cable to your vehicle. If necessary use the second snatch block to get the right angle. Good luck and be careful.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

tallpall

  Thank you gentlemen for your considered responses.  Your opinions and those also of people I talked to today, including the guy who sells us most of the cordwood we have been burning each winter, have changed my thinking from attempting to use an AC winch.  All faintly snickered when learning of the 1500 lb pull type I was thinking of using.
   Again, I have no vehicles to be used in this project.  It's either buy something like a tractor or ATV, rent something, or get a more capable winch.  This is a one time project, so getting even a $10,000 used tractor or ATV is not considered.  Renting is out because I am going to pick at this for, I figure, two years....a couple hours at a time.  This project is just something to keep me busy during the summer months while I'm here ( the other 6 months are spent in Florida as I hate cold weather....the kids staying in my house will burn the wood).
  So the thinking after all the above considerations is to gear thought to getting a hefty 12v winch.....around 4000 lb pull....and sufficient battery to power it.  I was told that even without charging, a good, deep discharge battery will last for 20 - 30 minutes and that's all I need (did I mention my stamina wasn't what it used to be? :o).  Charge it up again for whenever it's used again.  I'd put the battery(s) in the basement for the winter to keep them from freezing, say sayanara to the kids in Oct and see them again next April.
   If anyone has any opinions of a reliable 4000 lb or so 12v winch I would appreciate them.  Warn has brand name going for them but Smittybilt is atttracting my attention.
  Thanks again!

John Mc

I'd be borrowing a friend's truck/ATV/tractor before I'd consider going the electric winch route (either AC or DC). The DC winches are SLOOOOW, and the duty cycle tends to be rather low (run for a few minutes under full load, then you have to let it sit for an extended period).

If you want to try it out with a low-budget winch, the Harbor Freight "Badlands" winch series is a decent value for the price. Not the greatest winch out there, but you get what you pay for, and it's an inexpensive way to find out if the winch will work out for you. Here's a link: Badlands Winches

I'd stay away from their 2500# winch. It's just too darn slow. Also since their duty cycle is rather low on these winches and you're more likely to be pulling near the limit of this lower rated winch, you'll be stopping to let it cool frequently. The 3500# and 5000# winches are about 50% faster (though still slow compared to other methods). I've used their 3500# winch a fair amount (though not for logging), and it seems to be holding up fine. These winches all only have 50' of cable, so you'll need something else to make the rest of the run down to your logs (cable, chains, STOUT inelastic bull rope, etc).

Another trick that will help you skid the logs out: Getting the front end up on wheels will make a HUGE difference (I've seen folks use an old Rubbermaid riding mower trailer with the tailgate removed for this: Loop the cable, or better yet a choker cable/chain around the end of the logs in the trailer, then tie the cable to the end of the tongue on it's way up to the winch. If no cart is available, a cone or plate for the front end of the logs to prevent them from digging in will go a long way. (Back when VW beetles were common, people would adapt their hood to use as a skid plate. I've also seen people use an old toboggan.).  If you don't have anything like that to use, tapering the end of the log (partially sharpening it, like a pencil) will help keep it from digging in when you drag it.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

AlexHart

I don't want to come off as insulting (because I really don't meant to be), and with the disclaimer that I haven't actually seen the area, but I think anything to do with a winch is going to be pretty much a waste of time, effort, and an exercise in futility.  I think winches are something that captures the imagination or whatever but when you actually go out into your yard to "really" get your trees up the hill there is going to be problem after problem after problem.     

Not sure if I can embed this youtube video but this thing (conveniently given an arbitrary 600 dollar budget) is $599 from northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company.   To me this is the clear route to go if you want to pick away at something like this over the course of months or even a few years.   Just keep making trips, one here, three there, 2 the next day and you'll get it.   It would also have other uses around the house or like I posted earlier if your spent a bit more on a higher quality DR Power wagon type thing you could sell it after your done and get most of your money back. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0BvfGKCGso

Good luck at any rate.    If you were a neighbor I'd tell you to spend some of your budget on the local equipment trucker and you could borrow a skidder for awhile.   

John Mc

Here is the wheelbarrow AlexHart posted form another vendor: PAW Electric Wheelbarrow. A little more expensive than the NT vendor, but with free shipping it works out to be less. I'd be a bit concerned that it might not handle anything other than smooth ground, but maybe it could work, if you can live with the 6 cu. ft. capacity.

As Alex mentioned, the DR Powerwagon is a whole lot more capable machine (rated for 800#, vs the PAW rated at 200#), but also costs a good bit more. On the other hand, maybe you have some other use for a powered wheelbarrow?

I do agree with Alex's comment that using an electric winch is going to be very frustrating. I provided those links, not because I think it's a good way to go, but because they are a cheap option if you are dead set on trying it.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ljohnsaw

I'll second the DR Powerwagon suggestion.  I picked up a used one (motor was replaced with a worn out 6.5hp) for around $600 (new $1,200-1,600) but works pretty darn well.  The small bed (34" wide x ~42") and stake sides was used to haul 600lbs of retaining wall blocks at a time.  I made a bigger bed to use for firewood gathering.

Super simple, cheap (free) log arch - could use this to pick up the front of the log and drag with the DR:

 

Original DR Powerwagon.  Black tub is just sitting in the stake side.  There is another frame it mounts on to replace the stake side.

 

The blocks I moved down into my back yard:

 

Smaller original bed inside the new one, front gate removed:

 
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

tallpall

  I will have to give a hand to you  guys who have figured out how to post photos to this forum.  I worked in computer stuff 20 some odd years ago and sometimes help people with *their* problems....but I have yet to figure this one out.  Next time I'll omit the beers before trying it.... :D
  Anyway, I *happen* to have a DR Powerwagon.  Didn't mention it because it wasn't supposed to become a factor in this "getting logs up the hill" scenario.  It's enough to wrestle that thing around on level ground.  Up incline covered with organic and other crap was and is out of the question.  My planned use of that was to transport split logs from the logsplitter to the stacking point, level ground... some 8 yards away.  Even those level ground steps make me weary so won't consider bringing up  split logs from the forest on a ground covered with crap that not only includes the organic matter dropped to the forest floor, but crap thrown down there from previous owners.  It's a struggle going uphill with the DR even on our uphill lawn....spinning wheels....but those patches will grow back in a year or two.  If I forgot to tell you our lot, 120 ft wide, goes down from the street for about 800 ft before starting back up to the mountain (read "hill") that I wish to expose by felling the trees in front of my view.

red

Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Puffergas

Here ya go..

http://www.backwoodshome.com/the-mini-skyline/

"The need to get firewood from a draw below my house to my woodshed started me on what became a fun project. After felling 4- to 8-inch diameter standing dead oaks, I could have cut them into four-foot lengths and pulled them uphill in my cart, but the uphill was a bit much. Another alternative was to clear a four-wheel drive road down into the draw, but that would have created an ugly swath and repeated trips of my pickup would have made unsightly ruts in the ground. Yet another interesting alternative was winching, or yarding, these pole-size, 15- to 20-foot tall trees uphill. That's what I decided to build."

The above was snipped from the above link.

Cut your heavy logs shorter.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

John Mc

Tallpall - That's surprising. I don't own a DR Powerwagon, but a friend does. It's hardly a "go anywhere" machine; it definitely has its limits. He runs it right up a pretty good slope, but I think he has tire chains on it. He does not use the town behind seat; he uses it as a walk-behind (which may help by not having to pull him up the slope as well?).
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Magicman

Quote from: tallpall on July 25, 2016, 06:35:24 PM
  I will have to give a hand to you  guys who have figured out how to post photos to this forum.
Go to the index page and scroll all of the way to the bottom.  Jeff has a nice picture posting tutorial there.  Don't be bashful to ask questions.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Neilo

Do you have a horse? Could be useful to drag or set up with cable or pulleys like others said.

How about buying a cheap 4x4?

I don't think a remote DC winch will be successful.

DDW_OR

tallpall, where are you located?

maybe get some weekend help from "the kids"

a weeks rental of a skidsteer should be about $600 to $900
use it and a cable to pull the logs up, then stack for future use.
and you can use the skidsteer to do other jobs, move gravel/dirt, build trails/paths,
"let the machines do the work"

square1

There are a bunch of old retired guys with toys like tractors and jeeps that likely would trade you a couple few hours of pulling logs for a lunch and maybe (but probably not) the cost of fuel.  Start networking at the local coffee shop, tractor pulls, church, conservation club...

Ed_K

 with all the big equipment I have, when it comes to working around the house and sugaring camp, I go right to a cub cadet 14 hp. It has a 4 cu foot wagon, 50" mower deck and a 48" snowblower. It came with a set of rear tire chains which I made more aggressive. Without the mower on it also has good enough clearance to get me up into the orchard and back. And best part, it cost me $250.
Ed K

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