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Sawing by yourself with a walk-beside sawhead.

Started by RPowers, July 19, 2016, 09:48:07 PM

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RPowers

I am about to upgrade my Lt28 (way overdue on that) to a larger hydraulic mill for my small business. Most often I have either the customer or a helper off-bear for me, so the drag-back on a larger mill will work well for that. What about sawing by yourself? is it possible to utilize dragback in an efficient manner on a walk-beside if you are alone? I am guessing that it just means chasing the sawhead down at the end of cut. I am looking at a very new used LT50 with all bells and whistles EXCEPT Remote or Command Control. I did some research on here and found that upgrading to remote was $8k for an existing mill, which is not an option budget-wise. I'm used to a manual mill with no power-feed right now. Anyone else utilize the dragback feature when sawing alone with a walk-beside mill??

2013 Woodmizer LT28G25 (sold 2016)
2015 Woodmizer LT50HDD47

Brucer

Yes.

I added a dragback to my walk-beside LT40 hydraulic after I'd owned it for a couple of years.

I usually saw alone, so before the upgrade I practiced dragging boards and slabs back without the dragback ???. I found if the board isn't too heavy, you can drag the blade back through the cut (but not when it's moving!) and the sawdust will pile up on the blade and lift the board slightly. The board will start to come back when the saw head is about halfway back along the log. This experiment convinced me the dragback would work for me.

The dragback is designed to gradually push the board off to the side away from the operator, which for me was a nuisance (I eventually fixed this). However, I found it was very easy to "steer" the board by simply resting my right hand on it as I was walking back beside it.

One really important thing to plan for is where the board is going to go as it falls off the end of the cant. You really don't want to dump everything on the ground and then have to pick it all up later. I handled this by building a long roller table that the boards would drop onto. That kept the boards at a comfortable height; I could start the saw into the next cut, then deal with the board as the sawhead was travelling on its own.

Always consider the range of lengths you'll be dealing with as the boards get pulled off the mill. Short boards (8') were a nuisance with my setup. Long boards (10' to 32') worked fine.

The downside of the dragback is it reduces the height of the throat above the blade by about 2". Overall, though, for my particular setup it was a great help.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

WDH

Yes, I use the drag back when sawing alone.  It saves you one trip on each board.  For instance, if you did not have the drag back, and when a board is sawn, you tail it off the mill and stack it where you stack.  Then you have to walk back to the head to retrieve it for the next cut.  With the drag back, after you stack the board, the sawhead is in position for the next cut.  Or, like Brucer, you can drag back the board, initiate the next cut, and while the sawhead is traveling along making the cut, you can stack the board, essentially doing two things at one time.   
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

There are caution labels on the sawmill about using the dragback while sawing alone.  There is an inherent danger, so as with any sawing operation, keep safety at the top of the list.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

scully

Just a thought . The LT50 is allot of mill to be walking with. Add in drag back and return speed plus sawing alone ,I'm not sure that is a good formula .
I bleed orange  .

Magicman

I would be adding a seat to that rascal.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WDH

I don't feel unsafe when sawing with the drag back alone.  What is the concern?
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

RPowers

Thanks for the responses. I think that it sounds as though this will be a very workable setup. I think I would prefer the Command Control, but waiting around for a good used mill at a good price can take a while. This is available now and not too far from me.
2013 Woodmizer LT28G25 (sold 2016)
2015 Woodmizer LT50HDD47

Magicman

Quote from: WDH on July 20, 2016, 09:14:59 AM
I don't feel unsafe when sawing with the drag back alone.  What is the concern?
I don't know Danny, but there is caution/warning sticker on my sawmill.  (It probably is an "insurance/liability" issue.)


 
Of course it is a non-issue with me because I removed my board-dragback very early on because it took throat space.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

John S

A WM rep once told me that if I upgraded to an LT40 Super or an LT50 to be sure  get command control on one of those mills.  I have an LT40 standard hydraulic.  His reason was that I would have trouble keeping up (walking) with the speed of the mill.  This was both during the cut and on the return.  MM has a seat, he might comment on how fast a Super travels.
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

Bandmill Bandit

My Mill is the LT40HDG28 "almost Super"! every thing but the lift motor is upgraded to the same equipment as the LT40 super.

I use my board return ALL the time weather I am alone or have help.

It is my opinion that the Board return actually presents a greater safety risk when you HAVE help than when you saw alone. WHY? because the sawyer needs to be aware of where the help is as he pulls back the head with cut board.

BECAUSE; If the offbearer is standing at the end of the mill waiting for the board it is real easy to misjudge board speed and get nailed with a board that is being pushed by a saw head that weighs a few 100 lbs powered by a 3/4HP motor geared down drive that will easily move a few 100 lbs more quite easily and/or break a board. (don't ask how I know)

I have an 8 inch convex mirror mounted to my head so I can see what is behind me when I am using my seat. The 2 foot space between mill and landing table is a NO GO ZONE for any reason when sawmill is operating.

When I saw alone I don't use my seat BUT my board return is indispensable. I guide/steer the board with my right hand BUT I have modified my return arm (similar as others have) so that it is actually is carrying the end of the board rather than pushing. With the table and the modified return arm over all operator risk is minimized significantly.


 


The set up below is my prefered setup. Especially whne sawing alone.


 

IMHO the safety risk WITHOUT the board return (with mods and table) is actually higher when working alone.   

As with ALL machinery there are a operational risks. You MUST be AWARE of them ALL and it is your responsibility to ensure that ALL persons around the mill fully understand those risks and how to mitigate them to avoid injury or worse.

If someone cannot grasp the concept they should not be anywhere near the equipment.

Return speed of the saw head is not an issue for me and I am 60. I find the speed a bit slow at time actually.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Percy

Quote from: Magicman on July 20, 2016, 08:36:16 AM
There are caution labels on the sawmill about using the dragback while sawing alone.  There is an inherent danger, so as with any sawing operation, keep safety at the top of the list.
Quote from: WDH on July 20, 2016, 09:14:59 AM
I don't feel unsafe when sawing with the drag back alone.  What is the concern?
I have a remote LT70 and operate from the "other end" of the mill so Im out of harms way. When I first got my 70, I didnt have a receiving table of any sort and would just let the pieces land on the floor. One 16 foot 2x6 wrc for whatever reason, caught a crack in the floor, perpendicular to the boards direction of travel and the board stopped instantly but the head kept moving as it weighs quite a bit. The 2x6 literally exploded sending shards of pointed sticks everywhere including where I would have been standing had I been running a walk along type. After that episode, I spent many an hour refining my receiving apparatus so boards of all lengths and widths and thickness dragged off the mill smoothly and not catching or hanging up on anything. I think a walkalong operator would have an advantage building/refining the receiving apparatus as he would be able to see prblems/potential problems but he would be in harms way. Use your head and be observant and things should be ok. 4X4 American and Peter Drouin have both added tables/dragback mods to their mills so you could get some good ideas there..  ;D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

derhntr

I have the remote command control and rarely use my board return, it always kicks the boards to the left side of the mill out on to the track. Which is a pain when saw by ones self.
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

Magicman

I can assure you that the return on my sawmill is plenty fast, but I can ride at any speed.   ;D   :D

Speaking of help, my preferred setup is to always have all of the help, slabs, and lumber in front of me.  That way I can immediately stop if I see something that is unsafe or something that I do like.  I do not like anyone doing anything behind me that is within "striking distance" of the sawmill.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

woodmills1

My 70 is a remote, but I would think the walk along with drag back would be a good option.  Here are two reasons why I think a seasoned operator would be safe.  First, unless it has changed the back on the drum switch is not on a detent, so easy to let go if it looks like a problem.  Then, second  if the board or slab doesn't need to drag back just raise the head higher and no drag back.  As said above the drag back with a walk along needs an efficient set up for slabs, flitches, and boards.  In fact working alone always needs an efficient set up.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Bandmill Bandit

I hear MM and I have considered trying a board return that shoves the lumber to the "back" of the mill from the hitch end as it is making the next cut BUT that presents a whole bunch of other safety issues that I think may be more difficult to mitigate.

Either way the mill operator has to be very aware of what is going on around the entire milling site. Sorta like operating any heavy equipment, you just gotta be positive sure you are aware of every thing that is going on and keep the number of things happening and people to the necessary minimum to allow good long term productivity AND maximum safety.

Get in a rush and things start to go wrong fast. Get too tired and are results are similar to a rush.     
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

YellowHammer

Here's a professional sawyer (Customsawyer) who knows a little something about walking and sawing and who uses the dragabck to save steps and time...He told me once how many board feet he cuts in a year, I've since forgotten, but it was a LOT. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_lwnVIuRq0&time_continue=57&ebc=ANyPxKqb1Chpn6WTxyqt6ELauIiu_lAP7S273fSs6kKQssLl9iOpl7piTnQ2DnnozBCdDiKLo-va
I wouldn't saw without the dragabck, but have the command control station. 



YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

tnaz

Thanks for sharing.  Very impressive, and looked like everyone new their task.

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