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what is the proper time/way to thin pines?

Started by Thehardway, July 15, 2016, 02:38:47 PM

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Thehardway

I have several patches of Virginia Pine (shortleaf yellow pine)  on my property that are reaching about 3-4" in diameter and are about 20-25' tall.  When is the proper time and how should I go about lining them out, thinning them and stripping lower branches, Spacing etc.     I would like to eventually cut them up and mill them as saw logs.  Any breif guidance on best practice appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
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Texas Ranger

Prune to 10 or 12 feet now, and think about thinning when there is no "blue sky" around the individual stems.  All depends on how closely they are spaced.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Thehardway

Right now they are about 1-2' apart.  some die-off is occurring due to shading/overcrowding.  What is the best time of year to do the pruning?
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WDH

Look at the crowns.  When the crown ratio falls below 35 - 40%, you need to thin.  The crown ratio is the ratio of the height of the live crown (the part with green needles) divided by the total height of the the tree.  Looking at a tree, measure the total height.  Then, measure the height from the lowest green branches to the top of the tree.  Divide this green crown measurement by the total height.  If this ratio is less than 35 - 40% it is time to thin. 
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Texas Ranger

Not an expert on Virginia pine, but, thin to at least 8 feet between trees.  you probably have no growth at this time.  Best ask your state forester.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Ianab

Quote from: Texas Ranger on July 15, 2016, 05:04:51 PM
Not an expert on Virginia pine, but, thin to at least 8 feet between trees.  you probably have no growth at this time.  Best ask your state forester.

Yeah, sounds way overcrowded and might be starting to "stagnate" where no single trees are able to grow fast enough to become dominant and shade out the weaker ones to reduce the crowding.

But be careful about thinning too hard because the trees may be weak and when you remove the support of to many others the next wind storm can knock them all flat. Probably best to do the thinning in stages, allow enough space for the remaining trees grow a bit more, but still keeping the support of other trees. Then repeat in a couple of years as they close the canopy in again.

Locally we would start with about a 6 ft spacing, then thin to 12-18 ft as the trees grow. But that's with Radiata pine, and in a different climate, so probably doesn't apply. Hence TR's advice on asking for some local expert knowledge.

Lift pruning?  Removing any dead and dying branches wont harm the tree, or slow it's growth, and will improve the quality of the wood produced.  Those branches aren't doing any photosynthesis, and are just waiting to fall off naturally anyway. Removing them now means the tree can scab over the branch stub sooner, and lay down clear wood rather than knotty stuff. Dead branches especially leave 'black' knots that are loose and fall out of the boards when they dry. By removing branches as the trees get to ~4" in diameter you keep all the "defect" wood in the core of the log, which is going to be low grade anyway.

This only really matters if you can get a premium for "pruned" logs (which we do here), or you are going to mill it yourself, and want a higher % of clear boards. It's generally only the butt log that's practical to prune, but try and get that clear to whatever length you want, 10ft ,12 ft, 16 ft etc. If you only prune to 8ft, then cut a 12 ft butt log, the boards wont be completely clear.
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Wudman

Greetings.  I'm just a bit to the east of you.  First off, get an estimate of the trees age.  Virginia Pine (pinus virginiana) is a fairly short lived species.  It will really start dying out around 45 - 50 years of age, but you can find 75 year old specimens in the landscape.  Your 3 inch diameter old field stands may be 10 years old or they may be 40 years old.  Establish that fact before you decide to move forward. 

Virginia Pine does not naturally prune very well.  It will hold onto dead branches.  If you ever need some dry fire wood in a driving rain, break the dead limbs off a Virginia pine.  It is loaded with pitch and will burn in a downpour.  Virginia pine does not rate a structural lumber grade, so I have never seen any operational pruning done on it.  I have seen some beautiful paneling sawn from it.

Another consideration for thinning.....you are in an ice prone area and need to keep that in mind as you thin.  Tall, small diameter trees are especially susceptible to ice damage.  You want to leave your stand heavy enough at the first thinning to minimize potential damage.  Thin it back to 700 (quality) trees per acre or so to begin with. (You probably have 20,000 per acre now if a typical old field Va pine stand)  Plan on thinning it again as trees begin to put on diameter growth.  Finally, you will have a lot of slash to contend with.  Fire danger in a post thin stand can be extreme.  Lop the brush down as much as possible to facilitate quicker decomposition.  Good Luck.

Wudman
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

Thehardway

Thanks guys, that gives me a good starting point.  The land was cutover about 12 years ago so trees are fairly young.  Waste slash was left everywhere.  Big fire danger.  I have cleaned out the majority of the slash and am trying to get all the new growth manageable. Fire risk is a concern.
These logs will not be sold, I will mill them myself likely into paneling.  I have tried to prune and clean out most of the dead branches.  Wudman, you pretty much nailed my dilemma.  If I thin them too much, the ice and wind take a toll on them.  I think I will need to do this in stages.  The first patch I thinned out 2 years ago.  I left about 5' between trees so I could run my small bushog through.  Some of them got bent over and damaged the following winter with ice.  They have mostly recovered this year but think I may have been too aggressive.  Maybe I should start with about a 3'-4' spacing and do it in stages every couple years until 12-15' apart to protect from wind/ice.

As small as my stands are, I hate to call the forester out. 

Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

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