iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

wheelchair motor wiring for auto feed

Started by revid, June 10, 2016, 07:38:41 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

revid

I just bought a invacare wheelchair motor with controller and joystick for an autofeed setup on my bandsaw mill but dont know where all the plugins go.I uploaded some pics to my gallery hoping someone to have a look at

Kbeitz

I would take a look but I dont know how to get to your gallery ....
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

revid

thanks bud, your always there to help.Iam trying to figure out how to post a link to it. Try this
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=7173

pineywoods

Where's the other motor? That controller positively will not function unless both motors are connected. The little 3 pin connector is for an external charger. The blue connectors go to 2 12 volt batteries to supply plus and minus 24 volts. If you hook up the batteries, the lights on the joystick module will blink error codes that will say Left (or right) motor fault and brake fault.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

revid

I thought I read about guys on here running just one motor. As for the connectors there are also two black ones with + and - signs on it so I thought that might go to batteries. The blue ones are the problem.


theres another blue connector coming from control box that I dont know where it goes.

Kbeitz

I use just one motor. But I use this controler to do that.



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

revid

Kbeitz did you get a chance to look at pics in my gallery?

fishfighter

Quote from: revid on June 11, 2016, 04:41:20 AM
Kbeitz did you get a chance to look at pics in my gallery?

I tried responding last night, but had a bad connection here. :(

Anyway, as others pointed out, you will have to have both motors hooked up unless to install what Kbeitz is showing you.

I have two of them for my set up, but yet to install them.

Kbeitz

Quote from: revid on June 11, 2016, 04:41:20 AM
Kbeitz did you get a chance to look at pics in my gallery?

Yep I looked. But with this picture of your wireing I cant tell much...



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

revid

Ok will try to upload better pics this evening. Pretty sure black plugs go to battery but don't kno where blue ones would go

revid

Might have to go hunting for another motor I guess

Kbeitz

Most of the time he motor has 4 wires. Two of them would work the brakes on the back of the motor.
Just maybe your blue wires might be brake wires. I dont see any brakes on your motor.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Slingshot


    The motor and controller I used on the LM Mark 4 Norwood came from
an Invacare Chair. The controller looks different than the one you have
but mine worked with only one motor connected. The wires for the other
motor just hung free. Either set of motor wires worked the motor depending
on how I leaned the joystick or held it in center which would have controlled
both motors if attached. I cut the wires to the brake and connected the black
and red wires to the battery through the controller.
  Here is a picture of the motor I still have (sawmill was sold) and pictures of
the set up on the sawmill. I don't have a picture of the connections on the mill.



 



 



 



__________________________
Charles

revid

Got the motor hooked to control box via"right" labelled plugin and then control box to joystick via respective plugin. There's a "left" labelled plugin and a blue three slotted plugin coming out of control box that has no where to plugin to. Will upload some more pics

fishfighter

That last plug might be to go to the batteries. Don't know for sure.

Slingshot

 
revid.....I have another wheelchair with connections that look to be similar to yours. It is an Action Power 900.... Will your 2 blue plugs connect together? Here are a couple pictures
showing connections on this one. Your two black plugs with red and black wires
look like these and they each connect to a separate 12 volt battery. They
connect together downstream to make 24 volt.



 



 



 


___________________________-


revid

thanks guys, when I first looked at the blue plugins I didnt think they would go together but when Slingshot posted his pics I had to go take another look and they do.Sorry about that fellers. I'll just cut the black ones going to batteries and put my own battery hookup.Slingshot our motor setup works ok with just one motor?? Some guys here says it will never work,I guess it may depend on type or Brand of wheelchairs .Will try to hook up later with one motor and see how it goes.Again thanks for all the help

Slingshot


The joystick is similar to yours also...anything more you may want me to check  I will be glad to do so..
A couple more pictures...

 



 



 


______________________---

fishfighter

Going back and looking at your first picture, your joystick looks just like mine.



 


Model number, if that helps.



 

pineywoods

There may be some controllers that might work with just one motor. It's a safety check thing. On power-up the controller normally goes through a check out procedure, where it checks both motors and both brakes. Also makes sure the joystick is in neutral. Think about it, this is a wheelchair. Powering up with one motor or brake disabled or joystick in full power position could result in some violent maneuvers, possibly tossing occupant on the floor.
All controlled by an on-board programable micro processor ie computer..
Dynamic Controls, the manufacturer of that controller has a very nice web site, where you can down load an installation manual with everything you ever wanted to know...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

revid

Yes Fishfighter yours is thee same as mine.The number on mine is MK4R2GJS

fishfighter


Hilltop366

Quote from: pineywoods on June 12, 2016, 03:08:41 PM

All controlled by an on-board programable micro processor ie computer..


Could someone with programming knowhow remove or modify the check for both motors and brakes part of the startup so one motor could be used with the chair control?

pineywoods

Quote from: Hilltop366 on June 13, 2016, 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: pineywoods on June 12, 2016, 03:08:41 PM

All controlled by an on-board programable micro processor ie computer..


Could someone with programming knowhow remove or modify the check for both motors and brakes part of the startup so one motor could be used with the chair control?

Nope, the control program is more or less permanent. One thing that might work would be to wire a couple of light bulbs in place of one motor and brake. I haven't tried  this but I will when I get another one in the shop...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

fishfighter

Piney, one day I have to drive up and see your operation. ;D

pineywoods

Quote from: fishfighter on June 13, 2016, 09:59:51 AM
Piney, one day I have to drive up and see your operation. ;D
Do that. Operation isn't much for show, but I'll stop whatever I'm doing and visit anytime...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

fishfighter

Maybe make it a day seeing you and swing by CaseyK's mill. I got to see that beast. :D

Kbeitz

I'm betting the computer just needs to see resistance in the second line.
So a big resister should make it work with just one motor.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

pineywoods

Quote from: Kbeitz on June 14, 2016, 12:02:03 AM
I'm betting the computer just needs to see resistance in the second line.
So a big resister should make it work with just one motor.
I'm betting you are right...question is ..how much resistance.  Gut feel says a 12 volt light bulb, but I ain't saying until I get a chance to try it. Right now, the only controllers I have in the shop are off a scooter, similar, but not quite the same...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Hilltop366

I wonder if you could put a rheostat on the second line to test for the right amount of resistance?

If a rheostat is not enough could add a resistor (bulb) in line to increase, once the right amount is achieved just measure what you got and get the right size resistors.

My electronic knowledge is limited but I do have a old electric wheel chair (given to me) that I thought of using if I ever have time to make another sawmill.

Kbeitz

If I remember right one small 12v light bulb is 47 ohm.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

revid

Just hooked up some new batteries and tried the motor....You were right I must need the other motor,all I see is blinking lights! So as for reisistor your saying a light bulb like out of a vehicle signal light might work or a couple of them?

Kbeitz

Quote from: revid on June 16, 2016, 06:55:45 PM
Just hooked up some new batteries and tried the motor....You were right I must need the other motor,all I see is blinking lights! So as for reisistor your saying a light bulb like out of a vehicle signal light might work or a couple of them?

Try one... Work your way up...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

revid

Which holes in the plugin ? There are four. What would the other two be for?

fishfighter

Two wires are power supplies and the two smaller wires are for the brake.

So, you will have to defeat both. The controller looks at the brake too! I tried disconnecting the brake and I kept getting the red flashing light. Hook it back up and was good to go.

revid

So I hook up a light(s) to both sets of wires to act as resistors?

fishfighter


revid

Ok had to use a sealed beam headlight for a resistor for missing motor and a signal light bulb for brake. Tried up to four signal light bulbs but no good so tried sealed beam. Motor works but I don't want to have a light all the time. What kind of real resistor could I use or make up now that I know motor/controller is good ? Any ideas?

Magicman

Measuring the resistance of the bulb should get you close, but I suspect that the bulb resistance changes when voltage is applied.  You may have to measure the current being drawn and get the resistance from that.  That will also help you to determine what wattage resistor that you need.  You will be back to Ohm's Law for your values.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Kbeitz

Use a variable resistor and when you get it working measuring the resistance
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Magicman

Measure the resistance of the motor that you are replacing, but then again, inductive resistance might be different but it should be close enough.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

revid

Ok thanks but  1 , how do I measure resistance,2 how do i measure voltage being drawn,3 where would I find a variable resister ? I know it's a lot of questions but I don't have a clue about that stuff. I got a good multimeter because someone gave it to me . Lil

Magicman

QuoteI got a good multimeter because someone gave it to me
You need "multimeter 101", and now that you need it, now is the time to learn.  I'll throw out some very basics, but my electronics school teaching days were over many years ago.   ;D

Your meter should have an R1, R10, R1K, etc. knob positions.  This simply means to take the number read on your meter's resistance scale and multiply that number by whatever value that your knob is on ie; X1, X10, etc. to find the resistor's value.  Having several resistors of known value to practice on will help.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Kbeitz

Quote from: revid on June 18, 2016, 09:34:39 PM
Ok thanks but  1 , how do I measure resistance,2 how do i measure voltage being drawn,3 where would I find a variable resister ? I know it's a lot of questions but I don't have a clue about that stuff. I got a good multimeter because someone gave it to me . Lil

Search E-bay for....

High Power Wirewound Potentiometer, Rheostat, Variable Resistor
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ga Mtn Man

Seems like it'd be easier to just put a cover over the light bulbs. :laugh:
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

fishfighter

Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on June 19, 2016, 08:31:09 AM
Seems like it'd be easier to just put a cover over the light bulbs. :laugh:

And leave it uncovered in the winter. :D

revid

well I figured the lights would kill my batteries quicker and I rather not have all that in my setup? Been looking on ebay and in what range of watts and ohms should I be looking for in a rheostat or pot? Is there any other used sources of resistors ? I have no prob with buying of ebay but it takes a month and a day to get to me.. I thought I might be able to rob one of a car or something like that,lol.

Hilltop366

A multi speed heater fan switch is the only place on a car that comes to mind.

Question, does the controller only check for the second motor and brake when powered up only or does it check all along while in use, if only at startup then perhaps you could put a switch on the lights to just use at startup.

Ga Mtn Man

A light bulb or equivalent resistor will use the same amount of power. 
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Kbeitz

The very cheapest and easy way would be to buy a few feet of nickel resistance wire.
Fasten one end of your wires to the end of the nickel resistance wire and the other controller
wire to the other end. Move your controller wire down the nickel resistance wire until you got it working.
That will be your resister. Wind it up on a chunk of insulator like a chunk of glass.
This is a homemade resister. An old toaster has the nickel resistance wire inside
for the element or any electric heater. You could also  grab a 10K resistor, connect wire in series,
and mesure along it untill You find the vaule You need. Then cut, solder, and be happy.

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

revid

Haha Kbeitz how the *DanG do you one up with it?? Thanks for all that guys buy will try and look for a "proper "like resister  or something robbed from something else. Any more ideas?

pineywoods

Nothing wrong with using 2 motors to move the head. Power consumption will
normally be close to the same as using 1 motor. Plus you have the extra power available if you need it. Like for a board dragback. A resistor will consume as much power as a lamp, just makes heat instead of light. Most controllers will do a continuous check on motor and brake status. Think about it, they are purposed designed for a wheel chair. Just about any safety situation is accounted for. Boogeying down the sidewalk and 1 motor quits, resulting in a violent turn into the dead motor, likely tossing the occupant out. Likewise on the brake. When the joystick is in neutral, both brakes are applied. Exiting a chair with one brake applied and the other broken could get a bit dicey.. If for some reason you need to use only 1 motor, get one off a scooter, only 1 motor used...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Kbeitz

Quote from: revid on June 19, 2016, 09:00:45 PM
Haha Kbeitz how the *DanG do you one up with it?? Thanks for all that guys buy will try and look for a "proper "like resister  or something robbed from something else. Any more ideas?

Easy to make...



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Den-Den

Quote from: Magicman on June 18, 2016, 09:55:19 PM
QuoteI got a good multimeter because someone gave it to me
You need "multimeter 101", and now that you need it, now is the time to learn. 

Magicman is right; getting this to work is going to require some learning or lots of help, keeping it working will require the learning.  You don't have to become an electrical guru but understanding volts, ohms, amps and their relationship will go a long way.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

fishfighter

You killing yourself. Why not just order the controller KB has put up? Yep, it takes forever, but in the long run, once it is done, it's done and you will have better control over all. ;D

Hell, I'm still waiting on sprockets. >:(

Kbeitz

Quote from: fishfighter on June 20, 2016, 06:27:04 AM
You killing yourself. Why not just order the controller KB has put up? Yep, it takes forever, but in the long run, once it is done, it's done and you will have better control over all. ;D

Hell, I'm still waiting on sprockets. >:(
And it's so easy to replace when you do have a problem...

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

fishfighter

I did order two, but should of ordered three. I will be using one to lift the head and one for tracking.  Would be nice to have a spare on hand. ;D

revid

I had ordered one with another motor but it fried it.I hooked it up just like guys here suggested.It worked fine as long as it was going fast but when slowed down like I wanted it ,it burnt out. So guys suggested to buy these wheel chair motors so thats what I did.I bought one with the joystick and control box figuring it would work fine cause everything from same machine. I wonder if I could get rid of the control box and just use motor and joystick cause thats where the speed control knob is?

Den-Den

The control box is the speed control, the joystick is just an input to the control box it is not the speed control.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

revid

Fishfighter did you use wheel chair motors also? If so can you tell me how and what you did? I ordered another controller like Kb uses just in case I dont get my present setup working. I just dont understand what happened the first time,the setup is not rocket science,lol.

Thank You Sponsors!