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I don't quite understand....

Started by 1270d, May 30, 2016, 08:42:39 PM

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1270d

Why the 1x pine lumber in our local Lowe's store is stamped "product of New Zealand".
Is it possible to harvest, manufacture and ship the product here cheaper than sourcing US grown timber?   

Trying HiTech's lead in thread title :D

snowstorm

i read something a while back about lumber was being imported from finland and sweden because of the strong us dollar

Corley5

I've heard aspen pulp is being imported by rail to U.S. OSB mills because of the weak Canadian dollar  :(
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Ianab

I don't have the exact figures, but once you get something into a shipping container the distance it has to travel by sea is pretty much irrelevant.

Radiata pine grows like a weed here in NZ, makes 24"+ saw logs in a bit over 20 years, so it's pretty much farmed like you would corn, on any land that's marginal for grazing livestock.

I'm not even in one of the main forestry regions, but loads of pine logs like this are rolling though town all day.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

redprospector

A friend of mine bought a couple of bundles of 2x6x16' from Lowe's a while back. The tag on the end of the boards said Product of Austria I believe.
We pondered this same question for a while.  ???
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

newstick

How can our government keep letting this happen? I guess it's better to see jobs go over seas, and watch our timber burn or die and  then fall down.
Or it's like this let spend  millions of taxpayers money fighting fires and cleaning up dead trees. It's just stupidness.
Im am owner operator of Newberg Forest Products.We are a convental logging company with a Timbco feller buncher, two John Deere skidders , a strokeboom delimber, and a Serco log loader with circle slasher saw.
In the summer time my other company builds Handcrafted Log Homes. I love the woods!

Spartan

Quote from: newstick on May 30, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
How can our government keep letting this happen?

My guess is they figure natural resources will be the commodity of the future.  Let everyone else destroy the environment and we'll keep ours. 
Don't think they have figured out that buying it from someone who does it is just as bad as doing it.  OR... they can pass that off to the disgruntled public better as private business doing it.
Too bad they will drive us into debt so bad that we will never recover and all the countries that made money on their resources by us buying it  will own us (and our resources too) by then.

In reality though, I think that it just cost too much here vs elsewhere to make a board, and they can't reverse it now.  We already shot ourselves in the foot.

One mill around here ended up paying the feds almost as much in stumpage as they themselves pay a gypo for log tonage.  That aint right.
Feds wont even sell timber anymore it seems.  The ones that do get put up here in beautiful Bozeman area, most go up for lawsuit almost immediately.  Then the logger that had to put the money up front to win the bid has to have all that money tied up and sat on until it goes to court.  Who can really do that?  My pockets aren't deep enough for sure.

On the news in the last 5 months here, one of the larger mills around here reported their timber come mostly from Private with about 10% being State sales, and about 5% is fed sales.

We wanted to put a road through a corner of FS ground one time so we inquired about it.  They actually laughed at us and said no way, "we are trying to not do anything with timber anymore"  was one of the last remarks we heard.

Thats what I have experienced logging here in MT.

That's why wood is coming from other countries IMO.

newstick

I here yeah! This country's getting so politically correct that pretty soon they'll be giving tickets if they here you fart.
Im am owner operator of Newberg Forest Products.We are a convental logging company with a Timbco feller buncher, two John Deere skidders , a strokeboom delimber, and a Serco log loader with circle slasher saw.
In the summer time my other company builds Handcrafted Log Homes. I love the woods!

treeslayer2003

Quote from: Spartan on May 30, 2016, 11:36:21 PM
Quote from: newstick on May 30, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
How can our government keep letting this happen?

My guess is they figure natural resources will be the commodity of the future.  Let everyone else destroy the environment and we'll keep ours. 
Don't think they have figured out that buying it from someone who does it is just as bad as doing it.  OR... they can pass that off to the disgruntled public better as private business doing it.
Too bad they will drive us into debt so bad that we will never recover and all the countries that made money on their resources by us buying it  will own us (and our resources too) by then.

In reality though, I think that it just cost too much here vs elsewhere to make a board, and they can't reverse it now.  We already shot ourselves in the foot.

One mill around here ended up paying the feds almost as much in stumpage as they themselves pay a gypo for log tonage.  That aint right.
Feds wont even sell timber anymore it seems.  The ones that do get put up here in beautiful Bozeman area, most go up for lawsuit almost immediately.  Then the logger that had to put the money up front to win the bid has to have all that money tied up and sat on until it goes to court.  Who can really do that?  My pockets aren't deep enough for sure.

On the news in the last 5 months here, one of the larger mills around here reported their timber come mostly from Private with about 10% being State sales, and about 5% is fed sales.

We wanted to put a road through a corner of FS ground one time so we inquired about it.  They actually laughed at us and said no way, "we are trying to not do anything with timber anymore"  was one of the last remarks we heard.

Thats what I have experienced logging here in MT.

That's why wood is coming from other countries IMO.
yup, i go to lowes and see what they want for them crappy 2x4s you can push a nail in with ya thumb, then see what i get for big beautiful yellow pine......makes ya sick.

Ianab

QuoteMy guess is they figure natural resources will be the commodity of the future.  Let everyone else destroy the environment and we'll keep ours.
Don't think they have figured out that buying it from someone who does it is just as bad as doing it

I don't think it's even that.

The wood you are talking about is basically "farmed", plantation grown trees. The European stuff may come from a more "natural" forest, but one that's been managed for timber production for centuries. Either way the trees are regrowing as fast as they are being cut.

But there is very little production from Govt owned land here. All that wood is coming from privately owned land, and pretty good money being paid for it. So it's not even a case of other governments "giving away" wood to undercut the US market.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Chop Shop

As long as AMERICANS want to buy walmart lumber then we will get the garbage while our QUALITY stuff gets bought by countries that want good export timber.

Americans as a whole are BAD consumers.



There are way more KIA dealerships here than GM/Mopar/Ford combined.   Thanks your neighbor.

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: Chop Shop on May 31, 2016, 12:56:25 AM
...
There are way more KIA dealerships here than GM/Mopar/Ford combined.   Thanks your neighbor.

Chop Shop,

According to Google, there are "more than 755" KIA, 3,263 Ford, 4,355 GM and "2,300+" Dodge dealers in the United States. So, even though it seems like the KIAs are winning, they still have a long way to go...

Herb


madmari

Don't buy it. Get your lumber from a local mill. I get my hemlock and pine boards from a local mill ( there are lots of mills) and it's priced competitively with Lowe's, is better quality and I can get what I want without picking through two units for a straight board. Plus, they buy my logs!
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

coxy

Quote from: madmari on May 31, 2016, 05:10:44 AM
Don't buy it. Get your lumber from a local mill. I get my hemlock and pine boards from a local mill ( there are lots of mills) and it's priced competitively with Lowe's, is better quality and I can get what I want without picking through two units for a straight board. Plus, they buy my logs!
your lucky most of the soft wood mills in my area wont sell to home owner and if you can find someone with a band mill to saw you lumber they want 60-65cents a ft to saw it

Peter Drouin

Most times the logs go on a ship out to int waters and makes the lumber, doors, windows  . The boat is the sawmill. The waste from the log runs the boat. [Steam]
Back to port and unload, Get more logs. Where ever the boat is from is where the stamp comes from. Austria lumber Austria boat.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Peter Drouin

.60 to .65 to cut it? or sell it?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

4x4American

Sawmill boat?  Interesting..never woulda thunk it..
Boy, back in my day..

HiTech

It's hard to find good lumber. It's also hard to find good potatoes. Not to change the subject, but it is. lol

Spartan

Quote from: Chop Shop on May 31, 2016, 12:56:25 AM

Americans as a whole are BAD consumers.




last quote I heard, and maybe it's a little off, 1 in 4 people in the US are on some sort of assistance from the government.
With numbers like that, no wonder people shop at Walmart.

I don't think our economy is as rosy as they say.

I'm one of them sad to say, not because I don't work my but off either, but sometimes I can't afford to buy local or american even if I want to.

WDH

One thing that you can be sure of.  It is all driven by economics.  Lowes buys the lowest cost source of wood, whether it is produced in the US or abroad.  It has nothing to do with environmental issues.  Much of the timber produced in the US is grown sustainably, that is, the growth is equal or greater than the harvest.  It also has to do with exchange rates.  If the dollar is strong in relation to other currencies, then when lumber is imported, the strong dollar purchases more wood per the unit of currency of the importing country, making the wood cheaper to buy in the US. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

sandsawmill14

spartan i know what you mean i been sawing syp pine into 4x6 for a while now and we cant sell the side lumber period :( i have burned about 5-6 mbdft in the last 3 weeks or so the last we sawed we had about 20  mbdft that took over a year to peddle out to farmers at $200 a 1000  :( so this time i am only keeping maybe 6-8000 bdft and that only because it is so nice i  cant bring myself to burn it :(  then i go to lowes and see there prices a i cant figure out why i cant sell it i could kiln dry and 4 side plane it and still sell it for 1/2 price of their price so why cant we sell it ???
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Ed_K

 What ever happened to Lowes having to buy their lumber from certified U.S. source's? I've spent a lot of time $ and paper work to get certified thru Smart Wood and FSC. Just so i'd be ahead of the game for selling logs Green Certified  >:(   ::) .
Ed K

coxy

Quote from: Spartan on May 31, 2016, 07:05:08 AM
Quote from: Chop Shop on May 31, 2016, 12:56:25 AM

Americans as a whole are BAD consumers.




last quote I heard, and maybe it's a little off, 1 in 4 people in the US are on some sort of assistance from the government.
With numbers like that, no wonder people shop at Walmart.

I don't think our economy is as rosy as they say.

I'm one of them sad to say, not because I don't work my but off either, but sometimes I can't afford to buy local or american even if I want to.
x2       if I supply the logs    I'm afraid to ask what she get for her own logs to lumber

lopet

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