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Sugar maple invasion

Started by Klunker, May 25, 2016, 09:40:47 PM

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Klunker

about 3-4 years ago we had a ridiculous production of seed from the sugar maples in the area. County wide at a minimum. Now there are significant areas that dominated by maple seedlings. Seems nothing eats them. They are everywhere. I have hand picked them out of several small garden areas. One was a small area about 6ft in dia. under a walnut tree. I'll bet there were at least 50-100 maples/sq ft. I had a 5 gallon bucket packed tight with nothing but maple seedlings that were about 6" tall. My main concern is in the woods. There are areas that are pretty much nothing but maple seedlings. I'm concerned that regeneration of oaks, which already is terrible due to deer eating any and all seedlings, and other more desirable to me trees will greatly suffer. Also will this negatively affect other plants, flowers and under brush?
Right now my plan is to cut only living maples for firewood, I leave all dead and or dying trees. And when I find the rare more desirable tree seedlings I'll fence them off from deer if need be and hand pick all maple seedlings within maybe 4 ft of the seedling and cut any maple saplings nearby.
Any thoughts on this invasion of maples? will something eventually take a liking to them and put them in check? or am I doomed to have to maple syrup on my wheaties?

DelawhereJoe

The red maples and silver maples do that every year hear, you get around a few reds and a wind blows it will look like its snowing. Also the sweet gums are prolific breaders here too, every year I'll get some little gum tree trying to grow in a few square inches of dirt in my barn.
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Klunker

This was a extreme production. I've never seen it before. The seeds were everywhere.

Carson-saws

It's the Sugar Maple that tends to offer up some good "birds eye" and lotsa curl isn't it?
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bill m

Maybe the reason the maple is doing good and the oak is not is because of soil chemistry. I generally do not see oak and maple doing well together.
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petefrom bearswamp

I wish I had that problem here.
Havent had a good seed production year in several yrs now.
Deer love them here especially inn the northern part of NY.
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Clark

That's an interesting situation where, as Pete notes, most would welcome the invasion by sugar maple. You're also in an interesting part of the state that has had some extreme changes over the last 100 years.

I'm a bit familiar with SE WI, my in-laws live down there. It's interesting in part because it was the historic interface of forest and prairie and whenever that happens you have interesting dynamics working against each other that can be very difficult to pin down after 100-150 years of farming. The prairie would have been dominated and influenced by fires that swept over them every 1-4 years. The forested areas could be heavily or not at all influenced by fire. The north side of ridges, kettles in the moraine and the east side of lakes were typical areas that had year round moisture to keep fires at bay. The ridge tops, south facing slopes and flat ground would have had more fire.

The influence of fire directly influences what species would have grown there. On the drier sites we would expect oak and hickory; the moist sites ash, maple, cherry and walnut. After 50 years of putting out any and all fires which was preceded by a slightly more lax fire policy which was preceded by fires burning every forest that was cut it is easy to see how things aren't what they once used to be.

Generally the fire-intolerant species (maple, ash, cherry, walnut) have spread to those sites where they historically never grew. Oak woodlands are being are being replaced by maple (if they haven't been replaced with corn). The kicker on top of it all, as you noted, is that deer are a major problem in regenerating oak. If you want oak back you could burn and that would take care of the maple. Fencing small areas (up to 5 yards across will keep deer out with even a small fence) would show you what wants to regenerate there.

I don't think the maple will be a problem, especially if you fence and get some oak growing. If you have too many saplings down the road you can start hacking some maple and letting the oak grow. I'd look at the maple as a back-up plan if you can't get oak to regenerate.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Klunker

Thanks Clark, great comments.
My woods are kinda interesting. One portion is decent sized trees that are well over 150 yrs old. This area was selectively cut approx 5 yrs ago removing a vast majority of white and red oaks. The stumps are 2-3ft across. The large sugar maples were left. Oh sure, there is a cherry here or there, one or two Beeches, a couple of hickories, a couple of sad looking ash and maybe one or two oaks left that were left because I doubt they were worth much. Crooked trunks. If I had to guess I'd say the total mass of trees here is probably 80% Maple. In the more open areas left by the cutting there is alot of under brush popping up. I found in one of these areas about a dozen small white oaks, seedlings. Most are re-sprouting from being chewed off last fall/winter. I'm going to put tree protectors around them and keep an eye on them.

The other section of the woods is relatively new. It supposedly was "clear cut" back in the 50's. It does have a few larger trees. Maple and red oak, lots of mature Aspen and tons of smaller hickories, both shagbark and bitternut, cherries and ash. There are some smaller white oak in there.

What I find interesting is there are no small sapling white oaks any where in either the woods. Also no Basswood anywhere.

I don't manage my woods for lumber, I manage for wildlife. So I keep old dead trees, especially den trees. I like to encourage a diversity of species. But I really like to keep the oaks. I feel they are one of the better wildlife attracting trees. I also encourage various forbs, especially spring wildflowers.

So I have areas that are as I mentioned pretty much nothing but maple seedlings. The deer do not touch them. They seem to have a leg up on everything else in the place. This is especially true in areas that are very shaded.

So my plan is to encourage more oaks and beech. I have found a couple of sapling beeches that I'm going to do some release cutting around them. Protect the seedling oaks I find. Because I have no Basswood I'm going to see if I can start a couple from seed or transplants from another woods I own. Any cutting I do will be first and foremost of Sugar Maples. Especially the smaller ones (saplings to maybe 12" dbh) that are competing with more desirable trees. Also I decided I would cut maybe a dozen large aspen that are in a group to encourage more smaller openings on the ground for forbs and underbrush. I'll use the aspen for lumber and the maple for firewood. I'll also get some planting of forbs. I don't have any bloodroot or wild leeks or a couple other spring flowers so again I'll transplant/seed some in there.

On a side note there is a 3 acre field that we are building a house in that once the house is done I plan on seeding with native grasses and forbs. Think prairie plants. There is also an another small field that I planted some burr oaks in this spring along with last falls and this springs transplanting of about 2 dozen different types of forbs.

Any thoughts on my plans?


Ron Scott

You seem to have a northern hardwoods ecosystem of predominately hard (sugar) maple which is a valued sawlog species in the Lake States. There is nothing wrong with managing it selectively for the hard maple and the included species favoring the wildlife mast trees of oak, American beech, black cherry etc.
~Ron

grassfed

Sugar maple is a great tree. As long as you are not talking about invasive species you should encourage vigor. Nature knows what should be growing and it sounds like you are lucky! Don't waste time and energy trying to push against nature you will just end up encouraging low vigor low grade trees in the long run.
Mike

SwampDonkey

Can't beat nature, she decides what grows best and where.  :)

Although I don't agree that doing something different that wasn't placed there by nature produces low grade. But you have to actively manage in the direction you want to follow. That does not mean introducing a species that is outside of its range or soil type. For instance, planting a sugar maple in a cedar swamp isn't going to work, nor is planting a black spruce in the Florida everglades. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Rural

We had the same thing here in 2008 according to my notes with the ground is some areas near a large maple completely covered with a carpet of seedlings and it happened again this spring. It all seems to sort itself out over time with the stronger seedlings taking over and the weaker ones dying off over time. I have tried to attached a pic of how it looked that spring. (its in my 'album' but cant figure out how to insert it to post!)



 

Ah, got it!

SwampDonkey

We get that carpet under mature sugar maple all the time. But unless the stand is opened up with some light they don't do anything but stagnate.

A carpet of sugar maple under this brute.




Firewood cutting promoted all those beach, post sized trees around with grey bark.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

I don't know how it is in Canada but here in the giant corn field of the midwest maples are very prolific .They have sprouts in eave spouts ,buckets,flower beds and just about any place they land .Fact I have a nice crop in the bed of a dump truck .Some eventually will grow to maturity,most don't. I seriously doubt those in the dump truck will.

Rural

Seems to be a bit dependent upon the year, some years germination is prolific some years not so much. For those focused upon growth for commercial harvest the removal of less valuable species and competing growth is no doubt a viable management routine. Others like myself for whom commercial harvest is secondary to managing for natural regrowth and wildlife refuge may prefer a less aggressive management regime. The removal of dead, cankered or damaged trees for fuel wood that lets the light in will always encourage new growth of a variety of species (trees , shrubs and undergrowth ) in the area revealed , I let nature decide which is going to thrive and which will do less well. BUT I have none growing in a dump truck.....   ;D

j_d

It sounds like you have the makings of a sugar bush.  I am losing my ash but encouraging maple.  We have tapped on a small scale but it was very rewarding and left me wishing for more maples to tap.  Just a thought.  - josh
God, Family, Tribe

Rural

Yes, my bush is also mostly Maple and Ash, although the EAB has been identified not to far away I have yet to see any signs of dieback due to them at this point. There certainly is the potential to tap the Maples.... I wonder how much this little one near one of our trails would produce?



 

Klunker

Quote from: Rural on June 15, 2016, 08:04:44 AM
Yes, my bush is also mostly Maple and Ash, although the EAB has been identified not to far away I have yet to see any signs of dieback due to them at this point. There certainly is the potential to tap the Maples.... I wonder how much this little one near one of our trails would produce?



 

That is a beauty!!, good forestry management would dictate cutting I would think. Myself, I'd leave it.
I don't know about you but I like big old wolf trees. And that one looks like an excellent climber for the kids.

Rural

Klunker, I see that like myself you "don't manage my woods for lumber, I manage for wildlife. So I keep old dead trees, especially den trees. I like to encourage a diversity of species." I view old trees like that Maple as "mast" and "nurse" trees for the wild life and future generations of the species and would never even dream of cutting it or similar oldies. We have several more Maples, a beech, some basswood, the odd Cherry and at least one big old healthy Butternut of close to (but not as big around)  the same size.

SwampDonkey

I don't mind cutting trees, in fact the whole lot was cut 23 years ago. It has regenerated and I planted areas to. I've now thinned every acre and soon going back through and thinning again, and again....etc. No scarcity of wildlife including birds. I even have some deer until winter when they migrate out. Deer were never that thick in my area, we have moose by the herds though. I always see grouse and hawks. Never see owls, since the old stuff is gone including the stubs. I do have one big old yellow birch with a nice veneer log on the but, almost 30" through by now @ dbh. Not a dead limb on it. I'm waiting another 7 years to do a volume estimate since the last thinning was done in 2013, so that will be 10 and older since the first thinning. I've got every tree species known in New Brunswick on the lot except bur oak, red pine or jack pine. Got butternut I started from nuts off local trees. I keep the brush away from those. Rabbits never touch them but moose can tear them up if they are in the mood. Moose will destroy pine. I planted 3500 white pine, they rip up any they find with their antlers and besides that the currants host their rust disease that kills pine.  :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

grouch

A reminder of a (dangerous) old saying:

"A woman, a watchdog, and a walnut tree
The more you beat 'em
The better they be."

(Don't try the above at home. It's an ancient saying that will land you in deep, dark trouble if practiced).

Every time I've seen a prolific production of seeds it's been because the plant was under severe threat. Maybe something's after some or all of your maple trees. I've seen dying trees -- apple, persimmon, walnut, maple -- produce two or three times as many seeds as normal during their last seasons.
Find something to do that interests you.

grassfed

I manage my woods for timber production but I can tell you that there is no conflict whatsoever between good timber management  (in my area) and good wildlife management. I constantly cut different areas around my 350 -+ acres that are wooded. I usually work a 5-10 acre area depending on what stage it is in. I have so much wildlife it is not funny: Bear, Moose, Deer, Fisher, Coywolf Owls turkey, eagles, hawks....I could go on it is very crowded on my land. One of the reasons I cut in so many different spots is so I will have fresh regen that will pull some of the browse stress off other areas and let them the advance regen progress. 
Mike

Klunker

yes, timber management does not have to conflict with wildlife management but in cases they do.

Like I mentioned I don't cut dead, diseased or dying trees. These trees provide alot wildlife food/shelter/nesting situations. This is in conflict with managing for timber.

I rarely cut large "wolf" trees, I prefer the larger trees for mast, shelter and just cause I like them. This conflicts with managing for timber.

I cut smaller more common trees. To release other rarer (in my small 26 acre woodlot) or more desired trees. Most the trees I cut are in the 12" or smaller range. This is why I cut Sugar maples first and foremost, they are everywhere. I do have quite a few large maples, again, den trees.

Wildlife often causes problems. Deer make regeneration of many species almost impossible. Do a experiment. Fence off a 20 x 20 area so deer can't get in there. After 2-3 years look at the difference of plants in and out of the fencing. Not just trees but shrubs and forbs.

I spent about 4 hours Monday afternoon planting BloodRoot seed that my woodlot is missing. I'll also be transplanting trillium, bloodroot and hepatica later this summer along with seeding Jack in the pulpit. I'm always looking for native plants that I can add to my woodlot.

I've got about 3 acres that I cleared of small ash, box elder, shagbark hickory and elm that I'm going to replant with native grasses and prairie forbs. More diversity of native stuff. pith poor forestry management but better for wildlife diversity.

Nothing right or wrong with either type of management. Heck, nothing wrong with doing nothing and letting it all go.
I like coming to this site and learning about forestry. The people are great, the info is great and its about trees, what more can a guy ask for?

theRooker

I had a similar event here last Fall/this Spring and I use 'I' rather than 'we' as I really don't know whether it was a more widespread event for the area or specific to my farm. As a matter of fact, this past early Summer, the mower was down for 2 wks or so and nearly the entire yard and small field that I mow regularly was covered in maples (sugar). My thought was that if I truly wanted out of the grass mowing business like I'm always threatening, now was the time and we could reforest instantly. :) It was mostly the same story in the woods and I view the whole thing as a blessing in disguise as the cervine population(you know, antlered rats)  decimates young oaks and with EAB not far away, any desirable species was a gift. I have basically a mixed management plan but I would much rather thin later than attempt to plant. The deer will usually hit the maples  eventually whether it be new young growth or when preferred food sources are dwindling during the season.
"Trees are the answer"

Klunker

We had severe winds this summer that knocked over or broke off lots of my large maple.
Now it looks like seedlings/saplings will have a chance.
Lots of open patches in the woods with no brush.

I have been cleaning up the woods, making trails clear again and so forth.
Lots of brush piles.
I'm going to burn them and hopefully the leaf litter in hope that the fire kills alot of the small maples.
Next spring I'm going to plant into the openings Beech, Basswood, Red and White Oak and Hackberry.

I see adding the Basswood and Hackberry as increasing the diversity of the native species and the Oaks and Beech as giving a head start to some less common species in my woodlot.


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