Need advice quick

[Rusticcreations]

Ok a guy who makes bbq smoking wood products is coming tonight to talk to me he wants me to cut him 4" wide Cedar boards by 3/8 thick by any length and he said that he will pay $.16 per lineal foot is my math correctly that this adds up to .33 per board foot?

He also may be interested in other species and such and he may want me to plane the boards for him.

What would you guys have to get per lineal foot to supply cut an plane these boards for him?

I don't wanna work for free and I feel if my maths correct that I would be working to pay for the logs and nothing  else

[Jeff]

Well, he is potentially the one making big bucks on you.  Fish planks go for a bunch!

EXAMPLE LINK

[derhntr]

4 inches is pretty small width for grilling fish less they are small. I went 5 1/2 wide 11 1/2 long !/2 thick,and that worked better. I made mine out of cherry. Can get 2 grilling out of them. Also use the planner shaving in a pan for adding  smoke to the grill. I will see if I can find the photos on my phone. Then watch this turn in to a food thread.   

[WV Sawmiller]

   I could not afford to sell them to him for that. I would possibly saw his logs for close to that. Figure out what your costs would be how much you have to make and make him a counter offer.

   I don't care what my customer does with his lumber or what species I am sawing. I.e. I don't have different rate for hard vs soft wood so I will saw pine as cheap as I do walnut. If I'm selling my lumber I definitely have different rates for different woods.

[derhntr]

 I figured I would have to get at least $9 each. To finish from rough sawn to finished product.



 

[derhntr]

 

 

[ozarkgem]

Well, he is potentially the one making big bucks on you.  Fish planks go for a bunch!

EXAMPLE LINK

1.50 bf for about anything. I don't do pallet lumber. sawing   only .30 BF 

[muggs]

I think your math is wrong. I calculate it at .96 cents a BF not considering waste.   Bob

[Rusticcreations]

So I'd be better off making some planks myself and trying to sell them myself

Was my math correct 4" wide x 3/8 thick would be .33 a bf? At .16 per lineal foot of board??

I hope this is not against the rules but the guys company is flamegrillingproducts.com

If I shouldn't have put that tell me and I will delete it immediately.

I'm seriously hurting for money n trying to put my mill and tools to use more so I don't have to sell em.

[esteadle]

I think I muddied the waters and am removing my post.

[Tom the Sawyer]

RC,

Check the math.  4" wide is .33 square feet per lineal foot.  3/8" thick would be .125 bf (1/8 bf)per lineal foot.  At .16 p/lf, you would be getting $1.28 p/bf for your product.  Even allowing for 1/2" thick (counting a kerf), you still be getting .96 p/bf.

[Rusticcreations]

Now I'm getting lost half u guys say it's a waste of time the other half say hell ya.

So whose math is right lol, the guy came and dropped off 3 36" boards 4" wide and 3/8 thick and was like this is what I need and will buy every bit u can get me

[Ianab]

One confusion is the 3/8" thickness. Under the grading rules that's counted as 1" when calculating board feet.

But when you are sawing your log, you are going to get ~2X the boards.

Rather than trying to work a BF rate, I'd go back to what the actual costs are, vs the return.

You know your cost for the logs?
You have an approx running cost for your mill per hour?
You know how much you want to earn for your labor?

So can you produce enough product per hour to cover those costs. So if you say $100 of logs, $50 of mill running time, and you want to make $30 an hour profit. After an hour do you have more than $180 worth of product?

Maybe the only way to know for sure is to just commit to a 1/2 day trial run. Track how many logs you use, how many hours work, and how much you produce. Then you KNOW how the maths is going to work. Worst case is probably that you end up only breaking even, in which case you can sell those boards for the agreed price, but explain that it's too cheap, and make a counter offer, based on your ACTUAL production costs. At least you get paid something, and write the day off to "market research".

Of course planing will be an extra cost. If he wants that, again you can do a trial run. How many hours to process X boards.

Other thought, is this a useful market for side lumber from other sawing job? Because any length is OK, then you can trim defective boards and sell "shorts" which will be perfectly OK for his purpose.

[Ricker]

I tried to do some sawing for this company.  He is a super nice guy but I couldn't make any money sawing the 4 inch stuff.  If you have your own cedar maybe it will work for you. I bought cedar from him at $200 per cord, it was pretty small stuff and it was too time consuming to handle the wood to cut the narrow stuff.

The way he figures it is .12 a lineal ft for sawing and .04 a lineal ft for the cost of the wood so it pays .72 cents a bd ft to saw it and .24 a bd ft for the cost the wood to get to .96 a bd ft.

My figuring brings me to at $200 per cord and it's at least 2 cord to the mbf makes my figures come to the wood cost of .40 per board ft at best so i ended up short there. So you could say you are getting .56 a bd ft to saw, and I had to pick up the wood and deliver it when sawn as well.

My test sawing was 8 hrs invested from pick up of wood to the delivery of the final product of 1600 lineal feet. Did small logs, all 8 footers 8-10 inches on the big end, and the 1600ft took 5 hours to saw.  So $50.00 per hour before any expenses of any kind was my result.  Bigger wood could make it more profitable.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Sorry I did not answer your basic question but I (and many if not most of us I think) count anything under an inch as if it were an inch and using that basis a 4" X 12" board would be 1/3 of a board foot. I tell all my customers I charge the same for anything under 1" at the same rate.

   I understand if you are selling the lumber your yield will be twice as much but I'd saw or sell for the same price.

   If he's offering $.16/lineal foot I'd calculate as $.48 (3X12) per board (actually square) foot. You should be able to cut and sell for $.96 every 1" X 3' board. If you are cutting and planning for that is it worth the time and effort for you?

[Rusticcreations]

I have a guy that will deliver to me Cedar logs for 300 per thousand bf could I make money buying the Cedar from him?

I'm sorry but I'm not the best at math

My mill cost per hour is only gas as I have 15 blades brand new and a friend that will sharpen them for free on his w m automatic sharpener.

The mill has already pd for itself

[Chuck White]

Yup, they're called grilling planks!

I've seen them for sale at Walmart, I think last Summer and they were quite pricy!

Do yourself a favor and google "grilling planks", then set your price!

[WV Sawmiller]

Yup, they're called grilling planks!

I've seen them for sale at Walmart, I think last Summer and they were quite pricy!

Do yourself a favor and google "grilling planks", then set your price!

Chuck,

   I love you man but I have to disagree with that philosophy. What the customer is going sell them for or make from them is or should be of no concern to us as sawyers. What is important is how much we need to and can make while providing a decent product/service to our client. Rustic is not trying to be the retailer, just being asked to be the wholesaler.

Rustic,

   By my math, 1,000 bf of logs should provide 2,000 bf of lumber which in turn would yield 6,000 linear feet of product (4"X3/8"). So your raw material cost should be $300 and your return would be $960 ($.16X6,000).

   Can you saw and plane the boards and make a satisfactory return at that rate?

[Ianab]

Can you saw and plane the boards and make a satisfactory return at that rate?

Yes, that's the main question, not stressing about the exact Bd/Ft rate.

Like Ricker mentioned above, he did a load to find out. He wouldn't have lost money that day, but might have ended up working for minimum wage. He decided it wasn't worth his effort, and didn't do it again. But at least he KNOWS.

When you are working out your daily sawing cost, you do need to factor in the blades. Even if you can resharpen them cheap, it's still taking time, and eventually they need to be replaced, so add something on for that. You don't have mill payments, but it's still going to need maintenance, and put something aside for depreciation etc.

It may turn out that this is a job you do when things are otherwise quiet and you have no other work that's going to pay better. It generates some regular cash flow each week, even if you aren't getting rich doing it.

[Ricker]

I think WV sawmillers numbers are what it boils down to.  After wood cost, and they have to be good size logs, you will have $660. Then take gas for the mill and gas for the truck if you have to deliver it.  And eventually you will have to replace those new blades, change the oil in the mill, so you have to figure something for those little costs that grab 20 bucks here and there.  And then what money you have left divide by the hrs you worked for it and see if it was worth it to you. 

[Rusticcreations]

The guy said he would pick up 1000 lineal feet or more so I think I will mill out 1000 feet and watch my time and any costs occurred very closely and see what the math adds up to once done.

I spend plenty of down time watching logs dry for my Furniture so it could help fill the void if I don't work for free once done

[killamplanes]

I agree saw a load write down hours do the math. I do it often. I saw ties and low end logs I turn the side lumber in pallet stock. .60 c bdft 3/4 by 3.5 at 88in. It works for me on junk I cant do anything else with. And the small thickness is great because small logs I cant get 1x out of before I hit the tie.  But I personally at this rate would rather starve to death than do entire logs this dimentions but im chasing the tie. If theres money in cutting for this customer cut away.

[Chuck White]

Yup, they're called grilling planks!

I've seen them for sale at Walmart, I think last Summer and they were quite pricy!

Do yourself a favor and google "grilling planks", then set your price!

Chuck,

   I love you man but I have to disagree with that philosophy. What the customer is going sell them for or make from them is or should be of no concern to us as sawyers. What is important is how much we need to and can make while providing a decent product/service to our client. Rustic is not trying to be the retailer, just being asked to be the wholesaler.

Rustic,

   By my math, 1,000 bf of logs should provide 2,000 bf of lumber which in turn would yield 6,000 linear feet of product (4"X3/8"). So your raw material cost should be $300 and your return would be $960 ($.16X6,000).

   Can you saw and plane the boards and make a satisfactory return at that rate?

What I was kind of getting at is, for a board foot, you have to do a lot more sawing.

What a lot of sawyers do is charge as 1" thick for anything less than 1" thick.

A piece of wood 1x12x12 and another one ½x12x12 would be charged the same for sawing.

[WV Sawmiller]

Chuck,

   Thanks for clarifying. I had mentioned that is the technique I use to cut/sell anything under 1" as a square foot that costs the same as a bf of 1" boards.

   I find customers tend to understand better when I use the square foot term for thin stuff better than when I describe bf or thicker wood.

[Jeff]

= I have to disagree with that philosophy. What the customer is going sell them for or make from them is or should be of no concern to us as sawyers.

And I disagree with that in part. One should always be attuned to the things around them that they could do even us lowly sawyers. If you can make them yourself and sell them, why not?  I'd rather sell one and get the same profit as selling 50 to someone else to get that same profit as selling one. Nothing wrong with developing your own value added markets if possible.