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haveing issues

Started by coxy, May 24, 2016, 07:02:48 AM

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coxy

with the plunge cut  when I make the front cut    I snip the sides about an inch(to cut the sap wood) then do the back cut when the tree falls it will split on the hinge and sliver say 3-4in of the tree (most of the time it only rips a 3-4ft slab off the tree)  am I not cutting the front wedge deep enough or am I leaving to much hinge wood the hinge wood is only about 1-2in thick the trees are about 20-28in on the stump and its ash don't have any trouble with other trees

xalexjx

try a smaller hinge for ash,
Logging and Processed Firewood

grassfed

Ash with its straight grain is prone to splitting (makes you look good when hand splitting firewood ;)). Make sure that your wedge/face cut is perfect-no bypass. Make sure that your back cut is level not over or under your hinge. I would try making the hinge a bit on the narrow side and or bore out the middle a bit. That is all I can think of right now but watch out for bypass cuts when you nip the sides too-anything that can start a crack.
Mike

sandsawmill14

i always tried to cut about 1" above the bottom of the notch :) i dont know if that was right or helped or not just what i did ??? boring through the notch will certainly help but ash is hard and it was not uncommon for me to bore to much and the tree set down on the saw :-\ then have to use the other saw to release the tree but they didnt split ;D  i did cut 1 that was about 30" dia that was real crooked curved to one side about 2' then turned back up straight it broke into 3 logs when it hit the ground the green had gren leaves when it was cut and was sound but ash is very brittle as well a straight grained  :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

RHP Logging

Gut the heartwood instead of the sapwood.  Leave an inch or less of hinge.  Even big trees don't need as thick of a hinge like everyone claims.  Are you boring them because they are leaning? Also use a wider face and a snipe.  The snipe allows the tree to keep moving over the stump instead of stalling which causes the split.
Buckin in the woods

thenorthman

Sounds like yer ash is like our alder.

make a wide open face, lets the hold wood flex as much as possible, stalling on the face is what starts fiber pull, and stalling in general will cause a chair, bore the heart if possible, and get the back cut up about an inch or so, this lets it break the hold wood rather then pull fiber.

Not knowing how ash holds on the stump I'm not going to suggest leaving less hold wood, but for alders less is better, at least with fiber pull and chairing. Of course unless you plan on beating it over with wedges, then more is better and fiber pull is a secondary concern
well that didn't work

BargeMonkey

 I know what your getting at. Hillside / heavy lean or "swamp ash" doesn't take much to rip and look like an amateur.  :D lately I've been moving my hinge in a little bit, and contrary to "Mr Supercuts" opinion's no single method works best, I had a kid who cut for me for a while, had cut for my cousin / wagner, did alot of things unconventional and pulled off some trees and angles that left me speechless.
We cut this decent ash / maple lot a couple years ago, 2 guys working across the hillside, became a competitive sport, especially after people watch "ax-men" and think those guys are gods gift. We had a phrase when you pulled off something wicked.
"Free lessons, be here all week" and pick up your saw and walk away.  :D

ehp

Coxy , does the ash have EAB in it as that changes everything , the longer the tree has EAB the harder they become to cut because the tree  becomes a lot harder and brittle to the point its like cutting glass . You bore cut everything with as small of hinge wood as you can without the tree sitting on the saw and bore the heart wood , If you leave a hinge like in maple the ash will split

treeslayer2003

i would block and gut them. depth of gut depends on lean.

happy birthday barge monkey.

treeslayer2003

coxy can you show me a pic of the but cut off? i want to see what the heart looks like. plus we can better tell you what ya might have done wrong.

BargeMonkey

Quote from: treeslayer2003 on May 24, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
i would block and gut them. depth of gut depends on lean.

happy birthday barge monkey.
Thank you. Getting "old".  :D 
Again I love reading the FF because the wealth of knowledge is huge. Seeing what / how some of you guys handcut makes me feel like an amateur sometimes. I would try moving your hinge in a but more, and try and leave as little wood connected as possible. A small block off the end hides alot of shame sometimes.

treeslayer2003

Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 24, 2016, 09:44:25 AM
Quote from: treeslayer2003 on May 24, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
i would block and gut them. depth of gut depends on lean.

happy birthday barge monkey.
Thank you. Getting "old".  :D 
Again I love reading the FF because the wealth of knowledge is huge. Seeing what / how some of you guys handcut makes me feel like an amateur sometimes. I would try moving your hinge in a but more, and try and leave as little wood connected as possible. A small block off the end hides alot of shame sometimes.
add 12 years lol

motohed

Typically on big ash , I will bore cut to the hing cut and wedge the that cut and release from from back of the tree . This will allow you to get an inch to 1.5 inch hing with the tree still standing releasing from the back has worked well .  Be carefull till you learn the technique .

coxy

Quote from: ehp on May 24, 2016, 09:29:11 AM
Coxy , does the ash have EAB in it as that changes everything , the longer the tree has EAB the harder they become to cut because the tree  becomes a lot harder and brittle to the point its like cutting glass . You bore cut everything with as small of hinge wood as you can without the tree sitting on the saw and bore the heart wood , If you leave a hinge like in maple the ash will split
no EAB think I figured it out was not making the notch big enough going in about 6-8in worked good and cut 3-4in in on the sap wood side  no splintering like I said they where not splitting just ripping a slab off the notch side  and in 2 weeks ill have to go to the doc and get the rest of my leg put back on ill be on half flat ground again            thanks for the info  guys            treeslayer2003 ill try and remember my phon I don't get service there so I leave it home  :)

RHP Logging

Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 24, 2016, 09:06:52 AM
  contrary to "Mr Supercuts" opinion's no single method works best.

If you'd been paying attention there is no single method to how I cut.  Maybe you should get a caliper and calculator to dial in that exact hinge thickness when you bore cut.  Or maybe just stay on the boat. At least I've moved beyond what my chainsaw operators manual teaches on how to "fell" trees.
Buckin in the woods

BargeMonkey

Quote from: RHP Logging on May 24, 2016, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 24, 2016, 09:06:52 AM
  contrary to "Mr Supercuts" opinion's no single method works best.

If you'd been paying attention there is no single method to how I cut.  Maybe you should get a caliper and calculator to dial in that exact hinge thickness when you bore cut.  Or maybe just stay on the boat. At least I've moved beyond what my chainsaw operators manual teaches on how to "fell" trees.
Wow. I threw out a comment, primarily for the NE guys who have done GOL in this area, and you took it as a personal offensive remark. I literally have nothing but respect and awe for you guys who can handcut on that level I see posted. We have an instructor out here who literally goes by "that name", you took it completely the wrong way. Unfortunately do to the age gap, regional and occupational differences its hard for me to post on here, but send me your address and I will overnight you a case of tissues and feminine products if your still upset after me explaining my post and my apology.
Been reading the FF for 3+yrs now ???, actually met some great people and have went out of my way to help a few guys if I could. I really try not to post and be "that guy". You do this for a living, to me this an expensive hobby and I'm biting my tongue right now trying not to be "that guy".
I have thick skin but took the boat dig personal. Not going to continue this any further and will actually stop posting for a while so no one gets their nose bent out of shape.

RHP Logging

Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 25, 2016, 03:16:46 AM
Quote from: RHP Logging on May 24, 2016, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 24, 2016, 09:06:52 AM
  contrary to "Mr Supercuts" opinion's no single method works best.

If you'd been paying attention there is no single method to how I cut.  Maybe you should get a caliper and calculator to dial in that exact hinge thickness when you bore cut.  Or maybe just stay on the boat. At least I've moved beyond what my chainsaw operators manual teaches on how to "fell" trees.
Wow. I threw out a comment, primarily for the NE guys who have done GOL in this area, and you took it as a personal offensive remark. I literally have nothing but respect and awe for you guys who can handcut on that level I see posted. We have an instructor out here who literally goes by "that name", you took it completely the wrong way. Unfortunately do to the age gap, regional and occupational differences its hard for me to post on here, but send me your address and I will overnight you a case of tissues and feminine products if your still upset after me explaining my post and my apology.
Been reading the FF for 3+yrs now ???, actually met some great people and have went out of my way to help a few guys if I could. I really try not to post and be "that guy". You do this for a living, to me this an expensive hobby and I'm biting my tongue right now trying not to be "that guy".
I have thick skin but took the boat dig personal. Not going to continue this any further and will actually stop posting for a while so no one gets their nose bent out of shape.

Whatever.  It sure seemed like it was directed at me.  If you read from the top down kind of hard not to take it that way.   I'm 3 years older than you so I'm not sure what that' about.  I'm used to getting poked at on other sites about my cutting.  Wouldn't be surprised if it carried on. 
Buckin in the woods

thenorthman

Well... I though I was Mr. Supercuts... i'm terribly disappointed now.  You know on a account of the flowing locks of shaggy hair :D

well that didn't work

teakwood

Calm down guys. No need to get offensive.
Barge has been a well respected ff member for a long time now, and i have never seen an offensive post from him.

How did that cougar situation go?? ;D
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

BargeMonkey

 I've got nothing to gain by trying to trying to belittle someone else, especially someone who is 1200??? Miles away and cuts by hand fulltime, had 0% intention of that. All my stupid "equipment posts" and dumb questions aside I'm a business man. I try to not rub anyone the wrong way without motive or intention, that "supercuts" comment was a direct shot at someone else and you mistook it, again no harm intended towards you. I will probably look to the pool of qualified people on the FF with the intention of literally poaching someone to work for me, very careful how I go about stuff most of the time, you don't know me, I don't know you, but logging is literally a tiny fraction of what we have our hand in, so again I try to look at anyone who is a "professional" as a source of information and knowledge.
The cougar sounded fun, when the truth came that "I was going to be Jodi" I realized quick to run away fast.
That my friends is what I call a "UNICORN" because it's a mythical creature that's only seen and never captured. That is a 28yr old farmers daughter who runs a 100 head dairy up north and is counting the days till I get home. She TOLD me I was going with HER to Boonville. Literally lost a piece of my man card last night but I don't care.

 


   She laughed when I said I was throwing her picture up, so hopefully no one gets to upset, or falls out of the chair.
Just something good to laugh at, hopefully no one takes offense.

Gary_C

Nice heifer there. Looks like a keeper. The young lady too.   :D :D
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

ehp

Barge, we have never spoke face to face but you are one of the guys on here I like reading your post cause their pretty straight forward and good to read. And your a lot smarter than what you let on you are to be . As far as this lady goes from the picture I would tell you to put some time in to get to know her , she looks like a keeper and I'm, not talking about looks . She looks like she is a worker and that is what I looked for plus she is good looking

Ed_K

 Ok! all's good. I want to know what you bought for your B day. I have a bumper sticker "No farms no farm girls". Mine's 62 the day before your b day and I still have'nt got the farm part out  ;D .
Ed K

Jeff

Quote from: RHP Logging on May 25, 2016, 06:18:06 AM
  I'm used to getting poked at on other sites about my cutting.  Wouldn't be surprised if it carried on.

Well there's your problem.  THIS is not other sites. It is the Forestry Forum and we do not roll that way here. The Forestry Forum is all about the positive, and when it becomes other than that, you see my mug step in, or one of the other admins. I read down through the whole topic. Twice, and the only animosity I saw was yours. But now I understand. Forget what you learn at any other sites about how to react to a post, for within these walls it doth not apply.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

RHP Logging

Yeah I guess I was a little out of line. That time of the month around here, plus super tired, plus some crap days at work = sucky attitude. I just figured I had a name for myself behind my back already.  That's pretty much why I've ditched other sites.  Tired of the stupid bs from amateurs and has beens. 

Sorry Barge!  Nice looking lady friend. Or special lady?  (I.E. Jeffery lebowski) ;D
Buckin in the woods

Bruno of NH

Barge
Keep posting I enjoy your post you are a smart guy and a hard worker .
Bruno
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Jeff

Ditto! (Before Ron Scott could slip one in...)  :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Logger RK

X 2 barge. I grew up on a beef farm & worked on a neighbor dairy farm(when there was time). Farm girls are pretty amazing  :o

treeslayer2003

hey Jeff you ain't gotta be the admin to chat. step in any time, i'm sure you have plenty to add.

barbender

     Barge, all I can say is, you get in a lot less trouble when you're on that boat ;)
Too many irons in the fire

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Gary_C on May 25, 2016, 04:25:12 PM
Nice heifer there. Looks like a keeper. The young lady too.   :D :D
Gary,

   Sounds to me like you have been spending too much time in the woods alone if you notice the cow before a pretty girl! :D :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Gary_C

That's not it. It's just old habits from an ex dairy farmer and I didn't say what I saw first.  :D :D
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

petefrom bearswamp

I was going to jump in after reading the snide remarks but it seems all is ok now which is great.
I understand that sometimes the fingers begin typing before the brain is fully engaged.
cheers to all
Pete
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

sandsawmill14

i had to go back and look for the cow :-[ ;D :D :D :D
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

chet

I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

teakwood

National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Autocar

Very pretty gal Barge and Boonville is a great show we were there a few times years ago. My wife and I would saw twenty inch pine logs with our raceing saws. And the log trucks put on a good show also.
Bill

Ohio_Bill





Quote from: RHP Logging link=topic=90564.msg1394508#msg1394508 date=1464218172
.  Tired of the stupid bs from amateurs and has beens. 



/quote]
Hey , That's me . I'm a has been amateur.  :D
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

BargeMonkey

 I'm glad everyone has enjoyed the pictures.  :D I'm a politician and figured I would change the mood instead of cry over miscommunication. I know exactly how it goes being tired, irritable and think someone is trying to punk you, again I like the FF because you rarely see that.
I'm also on a maritime forum, it's literally "bloodsport" sometimes, the newer or younger guys are constantly cut down or embarrassed. Loggers, truckers and farmers are usually genuinely great people compared to "boat trash", especially work boat guys, so I purposely try and avoid that on here, and why I was so emphatic with my apology over miscommunication. Picture 5-8 guys trapped in a steel box for 2-12wks at a time ??? 99% of the boats I've been on we have a saying, "don't be the weakest animal in the pack" or "the weakest link" onboard because unfortunately it becomes a game of watching grown men cry.
Again just making conversation, we come from such different regions and backgrounds sometimes just throwing something out there is the only way to avoid the repetitive conversations.  :D
Hopefully cut some wood next week, should wrap this woodlot up and maybe get moved with 4wks off. My poor old Mack tractor decided she wanted to "retire" the other day and has been replaced with a newer heavy spec model. I've been pushing the limits for yrs moving our big stuff, I hate owning trucks but unfortunately it's a necessary evil right now.
I'm taking it slow with the farmers daughter.  ;)  We both openly admit that it's been a good thing I'm literally confined onboard and 200+miles away.  :D  I think I'm in over my head on this one. I see her work ethic, her broad knowledge of farming and equipment, very few woman call you as they are driving to pick up a new cutter bar for a heston haybine, and knew exactly what she was talking about, and planned on putting it back in herself.  :D.  I don't mean to ramble on, but you guys will laugh at this one.  ;D. The subject of "beer" came up, I prefer Labbatt Blue bottle. So I ask her her choice figuring I have it on hand when she comes down. She says "bud". Ok. I ask which "bud" ??? I can name off 12+ varieties of "bud" easily. She says, Budweiser comes 1 way, and in a can, and it better be cold, didn't hesitate.  :D. Between that, and some other discussions I'm very afraid I maybe looked at as the girl in this relationship by some close friends of mine.  :D :D :D.  Something funny to laugh at, I don't know how many of you guys have ever experienced this type of thing.

CCC4

Well DANG!!! I lose internet for 10 days and WOW!! LOL!

Coxy, everyone is correct, thin your hinge if you are going to GOL and don't nip your sides. Humbolts withe the heart gutted from the face work excellent with Ash. Box faced cuts work great for Ash.

Jeff, Sir, as posted...you should jump in with us more! I personally would love to read about some of your sawmill stories (I know, wrong area, this is Logging forum...but would love to hear them anyway)

Bitz, yeh, you and I both have caught flack in the past. You were just keeping your guard up...no foul. Heck, we are used to getting set on fire!! LOL!

BargeMonkey, good looking girlie, my little hawt wife even said she was hott and that she (my wife) has always wanted freckles. So....I'm gonna ramble here for a minute to ya. One thing, it's not that you are the lesser dominant in this new relationship...it is that maybe you are dating a Red Neck gurl! Nothing at all wrong with this...but I think she has you off your game...and this could be fun for you!

First off, if you are used to girlie girls...throw all that crap out the door. She is more likely to wanna stay at the house and have you cook for her then go bounce all around town. Instead of a romantic dinner, this girl is gonna appreciate a cook out or picnic that you have spuratically (sp) come up with. Take her back roading, go parking at an over look somewhere beautiful. One thing to remember, DO NOT put her in a situation where she is out of "HER" comfort zone by dressing her up and taking her to a snazzy restaurant unless this is something she suggests...TRUST me on this.

I have always enjoyed country girls. Never really cared much for girlie girls till I met wife (which I married on Halloween of last year dressed as dead people with fake blood pour all over me  :) ) She is kinda different for me, girlie but rough...had a rough life, went down some wrong roads and was never given a good life. So, going out to a 5 star dinner for with her is like we are experiencing it together, if that makes any sense. The one thing that I wasnt used to is the amount of clothes and shoes a girlie girl brings and or wants....glad she has a good job as an EMT LOL! I don't mind the clothes, she has had everything she has ever owned stolen or burned several times. When she started dating me, someone broke in and stole everything, she pretty much came to me with the clothes on her back. One thing about this girl, you take one that has been in her situation, love them and love their kids, they will show an appreciation you have never experienced.

Does your girlie have kiddos? I won't even get into that here....but I am learning a lot about raising Stepdaughters...so if you have ANY questions feel free to P.M me, I would actually like it, I may discover I am learning more than I thought by being able to discuss it.

OH...love the neck tatt, my wife and I are pretty inked out, love a girl with ink!! Some can be excessive but like with your girl, they can be there but not in your face. She has pretty blue eyes also!! Almost as pretty as Monica's!! HAHA too funny!! Good luck!! p.s....dont overthink anything, you already are...so quit it!!! :)

CCC4

Yep...loggers do get good lookin gurls!! ...and they can have hawt sisters!!  8)



  

 

barbender

     Pretty gals all the way around. My wife was born a girlie girl but she's had most of it worked out of her by now :)  She hasn't gutted her own deer yet, but she does provide the venison for the family more often than not ;) I don't envy you guys dating, at this point in my life I can't imagine trying to find the "right" gal. I've watched a few friends that went through divorces, it's like they revert to being 17, eyes rolled back in their heads (I'm not saying that's you fellas, just saying, I don't miss the heartache and having your world turned upside down on a weekly basis, as I remember from the dating game all these 17+ years ago) ;)
Too many irons in the fire

BargeMonkey

 I'm glad that everyone has jumped on this thread like a hand grenade and enjoys it, your suggestions about "red-neck" woman are spot on, she wants nothing more than dinner on the grill, cold beer and a ride on the wheeler out back.  :D  Tell your wife I said thank you for being a trooper and jumping into this one, her eyes are beyond blue.  ;) and I like the flag in the backround.
5 medium / large tattoos and 6 piercings.  ;) 
Anyway it sounds fun, 1 small step first. No children. She is still trying to finish her degree, going to school at night when she can, would like to be an elementary school teacher.
Again, something great to make conversation with,  :D


 


 
This is what I've dealt with the last 2 wks.  :D 

coxy

ok I'm going to rename the post to  having issues with females  :D :D :D :D :D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :) :) naa just poking fun   I'm glad I'm not doing the dating thing don't think I could handle the night life anymore  been with the other half 26 years all together and  the only thing I wish I could have done better was spent a lot more time with my oldest daughter when she was growing up instead of spending it at the bar

Grandpa

Wow
We started talking about cutting ash trees, had a small kerfluffle, touched on farming, and ended up with loggers giving each other advice on their love lives.

Please don't stop now, I'm headed to town to get more popcorn, I'll check in when I get back!!  ;D ;D

teakwood

I like that treat so much, its not always about the work! Kinda nice to hear girl stories from others.
My marriage went south after 7 years, divorce wasn't too bad, just $$ :(. At least there wasn't to much fighting going on. No kids. Since 3 years i am single, and I am all over the place!! ;D and *DanG do i like it, i am catching up with what i didn't do with 18. Have not met a keeper though
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

coxy

Quote from: Grandpa on May 27, 2016, 07:45:24 PM
Wow
We started talking about cutting ash trees, had a small kerfluffle, touched on farming, and ended up with loggers giving each other advice on their love lives.

Please don't stop now, I'm headed to town to get more popcorn, I'll check in when I get back!!  ;D ;D
here you go  popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

snowstorm

so bardge are you bring her up here with you??

BargeMonkey

Quote from: snowstorm on May 28, 2016, 07:35:48 AM
so bardge are you bring her up here with you??
:D :D :D.  Your going to get to see her in person.  ;)   how did the vacation go ???

timberlinetree

I sometimes cut a double notch (angle from top and bottom) and a big sharp saw and what others have mentioned.

These two sisters sometimes get frisky and try to tear my clothes off! Luckily they only got the sleeves!





I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

snowstorm

Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 28, 2016, 09:52:52 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on May 28, 2016, 07:35:48 AM
so bardge are you bring her up here with you??
:D :D :D.  Your going to get to see her in person.  ;)   how did the vacation go ???
the trip was pretty good. rome was interesting way to many people. Montenegro was my favorite on the way into port we passed 2 tunnels that were used by Nazi subs in ww11 to re fuel and repair. after 1100 miles at sea we landed in venice. the city of very expensive water taxis     

coxy

remember no pics it didn't happen  :D :D :D :) :) hope you had a great time   how much where the water taxes

Peter Drouin

Timber, It's good to be loved so much.  :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

timberlinetree

Its not all fun and games. I keep getting into trouble for wrecking my new jeans. ( I'm a magnet for greese). We do have a lot of fun though and I am married with morals so I don't get into anything that's over my head.
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

Autocar

Timberlinetree, times two on being a grease magnet. All I need to do is think about repairing something and I get grease all over my jeans  ;D.
Bill

rdobb13

Anyone else thinking FF calendar? 

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