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Cutting 2 By's

Started by derhntr, May 20, 2016, 08:00:50 AM

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derhntr

I know this is a dumb question. Have customer that want his logs cut in to 2x4 and 2x6. Do you get best lumber by cutting 2 inches thick and flipping and ripping 4 or 6 inchers or cutting 4 and 6 inch cants and flipping and ripping 2 inch thick. I have done both way in past for myself.  Will be looking to square cant to 8-10-12-14 where possible. Customer has requested just to cut on 2-4-6 inch lines not worried about under sized by blade width. Hope this makes sense.

Cutting for him tomorrow. If customer likes what he sees I could be cutting 500-600 BF for him every 2 weeks.   
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

WV Sawmiller

   I will be interested in seeing the experts chime in on this one.

   I just cut 2" flitches till I have a big enough face to make my final 4" or 6" cants then flip them upright and slice in 2" boards to get my finished product then edge my 2" flitches to the size they will make. I may also slice out a 2" section at the pith to help box the heart.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

AnthonyW

I'm pretty sure MagicMan has a photo of a log cut into 2x4s which gives a good idea of how to do it. But DanG if I can find it. MagicMan?

Because I have a LT25 without hydraulics, I cut the log into 2" thick slabs so I can remove them from the mill between cuts. The 4" thick slabs just weigh to much to lift twice. With the LT40 and powered head, you can cut the slabs and leave them on the mill and raise the head over them.

I cut of two sides to get the estimate of the size cant, then cut one of the two remaining sides to be a combination of 4"/6"/8" widths. Then rotate the log and slab on 2" increments. I then replace the 2" slabs on the mill and cut then to the 4"/6"/8" widths on the 2" marks on the ruler.

'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

OlJarhead


I prefer to cut large beams first, then flip them up and mill the 2x's out of those.  Let's me get lots of them at one wack.

In this pic I missed my mark by about 3/4" so milled that out and left it in the stack while milling since the customer didn't want anything that size.  I don't usually have that issue though!


Even on the SMLT10 I would soplit a CANT taking care to avoid the pith

And then mill two 2x's at once....but I'm still a rookie with just a half dozen years or so of milling.
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

AnthonyW

Quote from: OlJarhead on May 20, 2016, 12:35:46 PM

I prefer to cut large beams first, then flip them up and mill the 2x's out of those.  Let's me get lots of them at one wack.

That is a good example of what I was trying to express earlier. I prefer to cut them this way as well but the 4" slabs are so darn heavy and with a manual head it is too much cranking to move it up, over, and down to make the next cut. Although the unloading would be faster your way (3 2x4 per pass) where as I have to remove (about) 8 2x4s before I could make the next pass.

It appears you turned the log into a cant and then cut the 2x4. If I could find MagicMan's picture, you would see the corners of the cant in his method are still very rounded. This could provide another 2-8 2x4s from the log.
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

OlJarhead

Quote from: AnthonyW on May 20, 2016, 12:59:57 PM
Quote from: OlJarhead on May 20, 2016, 12:35:46 PM

I prefer to cut large beams first, then flip them up and mill the 2x's out of those.  Let's me get lots of them at one wack.

That is a good example of what I was trying to express earlier. I prefer to cut them this way as well but the 4" slabs are so darn heavy and with a manual head it is too much cranking to move it up, over, and down to make the next cut. Although the unloading would be faster your way (3 2x4 per pass) where as I have to remove (about) 8 2x4s before I could make the next pass.

It appears you turned the log into a cant and then cut the 2x4. If I could find MagicMan's picture, you would see the corners of the cant in his method are still very rounded. This could provide another 2-8 2x4s from the log.

I do that sometimes as well.  It just depends on what size CANT I'm looking for.  If I can cut a slab, rotate, slab, rotate, slab, rotate and then slice the remaining cant, flip up the beams and go it can produce more.  I'm just getting to where I do that more often when trying to eek out a few more 2x's from a log.  I've also learned not to flitch 1x's when the customer doesn't want them ;) and I've gotten better at that too though the last time they decided they wanted stickers and I had no stick flitches to mill! lol
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

AnthonyW

Quote from: OlJarhead on May 20, 2016, 01:19:50 PM
I do that sometimes as well.  It just depends on what size CANT I'm looking for.  If I can cut a slab, rotate, slab, rotate, slab, rotate and then slice the remaining cant, flip up the beams and go it can produce more.  I'm just getting to where I do that more often when trying to eek out a few more 2x's from a log.  I've also learned not to flitch 1x's when the customer doesn't want them ;) and I've gotten better at that too though the last time they decided they wanted stickers and I had no stick flitches to mill! lol

For the few places I have cut, I have noticed there are never stickers. I figure I have two choices. Make green ones on site or make, dry, and transport them to the site. If I was doing mostly hardwood I would probably serious think about the latter. Where is is mostly pine, I do the former and make stickers on site. I cut the first two sides as whole slabs (no 1x, to hard to figure out and rarely works for me). Once I have my target size for the cant, I cut the slab and if I can get a 1x out I will. Same for when I open the log for the first 2x4. I target a 5" face for the 2x in the middle. If I get a 1x out with meat enough for stickers I do. Otherwise I don't worry about it. Since my cant may be of odd dimension (not increment of 2) and have one or more rounded corners, I cut my 2x material from the center of the log usually leaving me with some 1x material from the top and the bottom for stickers.
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Peter Drouin

What I do too.



  

  

  

 

My old log wrench when I had a manual mill, use it for 1" too.



 
With a PV it would slip and pull one board out sometimes. :D


I keep all the one side has to be edge together the two sides in a dinfent pile.


When I open a log I go for a 4 or 6" face.



 

Cut the 8" then drop it and go for the 2x4.



  

 

And when you cut use the scale if you don't have accuset that way all the lumber is the same size.



 
4¼ it works well. And after while you will hit the mark easy.

And you guys without a drag back, You might be surprised how well the blade works. ;)



 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Chuck White

I've been sawing White Pine these past few days and have a couple of days left on this job!

Today, sawing 2x4x16, once I got a squared up cant, usually ended up with 12x12 and I would drop down and cut on the 8" line, then return and cut on the 4" line.

Next, using the claw turner on the mill, I would stand the three cants up, clamp them and cut them on the 10, 8, 6, 4 & 2 inch lines and they came off the mill 3 at a time, and kept the off-bearer busy for a while!

Next, I edged the flitches that were waiting on the loader!

It's how I learned, so it's what I do.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Magicman

I do like they do.   ;D 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

derhntr

Thanks for all the input guys. 
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

WV Sawmiller

Peter,

   I can't believe you are able to use your blade as a drag back. Any special tricks to do so? Mine always pulls off the track if I forget to lift it.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WDH

Quote from: Chuck White on May 20, 2016, 09:30:07 PM
Today, sawing 2x4x16, once I got a squared up cant, usually ended up with 12x12 and I would drop down and cut on the 8" line, then return and cut on the 4" line.

Wouldn't that give you the bottom cant a full 4" width while the top and middle ones would be 3 7/8" when you flip them?  On my mill, the kerf comes off the top of the line, so if you cut on the 8" line for example, you end up with an 8" cant.  When you then cut on the 4" line, the kerf come off the top, so the upper cant is 3 7/8" (4" less the 1/8" kerf) and the lower cant is a full 4".  Right?
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

derhntr

2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

Magicman

 

 
Yes, allowance has to be made to the initial cant thickness before it is split so that each and every cut is the desired thickness.  The actual dimension is irrelevant, but in my instance, the starting point is critical.  In my example above, the top flitch is taken and then two more cuts made and each is dead on the mark.  (the camera angle makes the bottom cant look thinner, but it is not)  For those that are curious, these are 1 9/16" X 3 5/8".


 
The three cants are all turned and sawed through and then the (side lumber) flitches are edged making more 2X4's.
(again excuse the camera angle which makes some look thinner/thicker because they all are the same)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Peter Drouin

I go with the 1/8 for a kerf, If 4 cuts I start with a ½" .  Then lose a 1/8 for the next cut and so on. That way all the lumber I make is the same and full size.



A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

WDH

One must allow for the kerf  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

derhntr

customer decided on having me cut 5/4 boards and 4x4 posts.  Wanted 4x4 post out of 9 3/4" log  :D I told him there will be wane on outside edges. He was ok with that. Aslo told him by splitting in pith the post will curl. He was ok with that. That is just what happened. But he was happy with final product.
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

plowboyswr

Magicman when I was cutting some oak 2bys those pictures were floating in my mind. Thanks for posting them and explaining this in so many different threads.  smiley_clapping
Just an ole farm boy takin one day at a time.
Steve

Magicman

Here is another series of pictures showing setting up a log for sawing 2X4's.


 
The targeted cant is identified and marked.


 
The slab and two flitches are removed taking me down to my targeted cant.


 
The log was turned 90° and again the slab and two flitches are removed which took me down to my targeted cant.


 
The logs was turned 90° where again the slab and two flitches were identified and sawed as well as dropping down 3 5/8" and sawing the three cants for the 2X4's. 


 
This last picture shows the final 90° turn and sawing the three cants at 1 9/16" producing "store bought" sized 2X4's.  I use the same log/cant setup principal no matter what the actual size of the framing lumber will be.


 
Here are 5 cants ready to saw into full sized 2X4's a couple of weeks ago. (I noticed and removed the bark between the cants before I sawed.)   ;D

I should mention that I always have an odd number of cants so as to never split the log's pith.  It's either going to be 1, 3, or 5 and with the pith centered in the center cant.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

peterpaul

MM many many thanks for the photos and detailed discription.  I hope to get sawing some EWP next week on my SIL's LT15 and your explination and photos are very helpful and much appreciated.     
Woodmizer LT15, Kubota 4330 GST, Wallenstein FX 85, Timberwolf TW6, homemade firewood conveyor

waho

MM, when you saw into "store bought" sizes how much will those 2x's shrink?

Magicman

Notice that I mentioned 1 9/16 X 3 5/8 for 2X4's.  This will dry to a very usable/matchable 1½X3½. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

starmac

Ok, another shrinking question for MM. I assume the 1 9/16 works fro all 2Xs, but more than 1/8 would have to be used when 2X6's 8's or 10's would have to be used to shrink to store bought size.  Is there a general rule of thumb formula to use that covers most soft woods?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Magicman

Probably, but there are many questions that come into play.  Was the log from a fresh felled green/healthy tree or was it from a beetle killed SYP that was in various stages of dryness?

I know what generally works with 4's & 6's, but that is what I am mostly asked to saw.  12's will shrink somewhere close to ½".  I will be sawing 6's, 8's, 10's, and 12's (no 2X4's) for the next couple of weeks and the most important thing is to be consistent.  They will all be 1 9/16" but I will have to upsize the width proportionately.  The customer does not want full sized.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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