iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Identifying bottlenecks

Started by Brad_bb, May 17, 2016, 06:58:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Brad_bb

I tried the cant edging method today on a 6ft walnut log.  I only had 4 boards to do, and could do 2 of them at once.  I didn't have my helper today, but if I did I'm sure I could have aligned all 3 and got him to clamp it while I held them.  It did work better because I was able to use the top of the cant as a reference to align the boards.  ...and the log was only 12" but I will end up with two 4"x8" pieces of brace stock with some extra material on them so after the outer surface dries a bit, I can plane them to actual dimension.  Sorry I only took a pic after the opening face cut.


 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Verticaltrx

This...

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 17, 2016, 09:04:12 PM
   Another FF tip/step I am working on for my home sawing is building and putting a couple of sawhorses by my mill and staging flitches by width to gang edge them faster and more efficiently. If this works well I may build fold up sawhorses to take with me to customer sites.

That method works quite well for edging and it is what I do. My sawhorses are the same height as the mill bed and positioned parallel to the mill just beyond the sawdust pile (operator side of the mill.)  You want them close enough so you and a helper can just swing the boards over to the sawhorses and back without much lifting or moving. If by yourself you just pick the flitch off the mill and swing around 180* and put it on the sawhorses. When I get a flitch I set it on the sawhorses, organizing them as I go by approximate width and those with one edge already. Then when I decide to edge them, generally every 2-3 logs worth I stack a bunch on the mill, like 10-12 or so, and make a pass. Unclamp, take out any that are done (those that already had one edge) pack the rest back together and use my cant hook to flip the whole bundle over. Then saw again, unclamp and take out the wide ones, so on and so forth. It sounds like a lot of work, but it goes fast. I can edge a bundle of 10 boards in just a few minutes. I really don't mind edging, it adds up board footage fast.

As for leveling logs, WM makes a what they call a 'taper wedge' for the LT15. Slides over the bunks and can be moved in and out to level the log. You do have to still use something to pry the log up, but it looks easier than fiddling with blocks or wooden wedges. I don't have one yet, but it's the next thing I am going to buy for my mill. You can get them through parts and I think they are only about $50-60.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

YellowHammer

I had a taper wedge for my manual LT15.  It was very easy to use, and a Logrite was the perfect prybar.
Later, I mounted a small car jack on the rails with some angle iron, and it also worked very well.


With my hydraulic mill, the easy way to gauge level for parallel bark sawing is to install drag back fingers.  Start the head at one end of the log, adjust the toe boards where the fingers just touch the bark, barely touching the surface of the log.  Then traverse the head and adjust the toe boards until the fingers touch at the same height the whole length of the log.  With the hydraulics anywhere modification, the bark can be leveled in the time it takes to drag the head across the log while jogging the toeboards, maybe a few seconds. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

red

Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

thecfarm

Edging on a sawmill is slow. I could almost saw another log by the time I recover all those boards. I try to do my edging after each log. Most times log size vary, so I can look and remember how I want to do. I have sawed out 3-4-5 logs and then came back and did the edging. Seems like it took me longer because I did not know what I had.I can see how sorting to size would help.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WV Sawmiller

Vtrx,

   If I were sawing at home I'd almost certainly be working alone but the sawhorse system should still work well. When you edge groups of flitches do you edge them beside a cant for better stability? One problem we have not mentioned in edging is the problem with clamping a large number at one time. Even though I try to put an already squared edge down next to the clamp and dogs (if no cant) if too many rough edges in a stack the whole stack wants to climb up under pressure. Using the cant helps get a better bite on the stack and reduces this risk. It gets worst when cutting stickers and want to cut that last 1X1 next to the rails.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Chop Shop

Constantly reading these kinds of threads is exactly why I have a MobileDimesion.

One man, NO edging.

thecfarm

Not many MobileDimesions on this side of the states. ;)  I saw one at show here in Maine. I was quite impressed by it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

4x4American

I tailed a mobile dimension mill for 3 years straight.  I didn't stop to go to sleep or eat or nothin!  Lol

That mill will put a hurtin on the tail man..
especially without any roller tables and you are stacking 20' away...and yea, you might not have to worry about having an edger, but, the guy tailing has to pull and handle two or three pieces sometimes depending on how the saws are setup.
Boy, back in my day..

4x4American

I really like their use of hockey pucks in their mill too btw.  Made
me laugh but they work good, I mean, ask any Canookian, a hockey puck is about the best thing since they invented the wheel.
Boy, back in my day..

WDH

The problem with edging on the mill is having to handle the boards so much.  Tote, stack, re-tote stack, flip, stack, re-tote, etc. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dan_Shade

I stack flitches on the loading arms.

I edge as many as I can at once.

Also, I find flipping cants 180° to open the second face to be more efficient than rotating 90°
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Dan_Shade on May 19, 2016, 08:43:58 PM
I stack flitches on the loading arms.

I edge as many as I can at once.

Also, I find flipping cants 180° to open the second face to be more efficient than rotating 90°

Dan,

   I think I often do what you describe. Open 1st face, cut 1 or 2 flitches, flip 180, open face, take off a flitch or two, flip 90*, open the face, take off 1, sometimes 2 flitches, flip 180* take the face off to my mark, may get 1 more flitch and start cutting edged boards. When I get down to about a 3-4 inches, stop and edge my flitches then reset to my mark and cut to the deck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Sixacresand

Nobody has mentioned bottlenecks caused by folks/kin (non customers) who drop by  to talk and visit.  Seems like people who aren't doing anything, want everyone else to do nothing too.   :D
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

4x4American

Quote from: Sixacresand on May 19, 2016, 09:25:23 PM
Nobody has mentioned bottlenecks caused by folks/kin (non customers) who drop by  to talk and visit.  Seems like people who aren't doing anything, want everyone else to do nothing too.   :D

:D :D :D  Yup!!  For the first time on monday I shooed a guy away.  I had a wm tech looking at my sawmill trying to figure out some tissues I've been having and this guy comes up out of nowhere in some police looking suburban, and starts asking me all sorts of personal questions and he did ask one thing I thought was great, he asked me if my lumber had been through a planer lol.  Lumber that was sticker stacked at the end of my roller table behind the sawmill.  We're out in the open on the edge of a hay field, do you see a planer anywhere!! Lol
Boy, back in my day..

Brad_bb

My mill is in my shop and the door faces the opposite direction of the road and my logs are too far from the road for anyone to see what I'm doing.  That pretty much keeps that bottleneck away.  I try to stay pretty private about what I'm doing.  Only my log supplier and the farmer I lease ground to have seen my operation. :laugh:
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

4x4American

If I have a bigger order and don't wanna be disturbed I'll put the chain up at the driveway with no trespassing sign.  I'm sure one day someone is gonna walk right around that and ask why I have the chain up lol
Boy, back in my day..

Chuck White

When I edge 1" flitches, I like to edge against the cant before flipping the cant for the last time, but I take the cant down to 5", so that I don't leave a bunch of marks on it from the edging job.

I stand all of the flitches up against the cant and mill through dropping 1" at a time, and when I get a clean edge, I turn that flitch over and make another cut, and so on.

When a flitch gets to a width I take it off and stack it, then I finish cutting the cant that I was sawing against!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

WDH

With the edger, I touch the flitch 4 times.  Once to take it off the mill.  Twice when running it through the edger.  The third time is taking it off the edger outfeed table and stacking on the tractor forks.  The last time is when the board is stickered.

Edging on the mill requires that the board be handled more times.  Once taking it off the mill.  Twice putting it back on the mill.  Third when one edge is straight and clean.  Fourth to flip the board to edge the other side.  Fifth to remove the board off the mill and flat stack.  Six to sticker it.  That is 50% more touches  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

I take a different approach concerning edging. 

Early in my sawing "career" I disliked or maybe even despised edging.  Well, I had to do like Cool Hand Luke and "get my mind right boss":  LINK

Edging is part of the job.  I get more lumber plus the stickers that I always provide free of charge to the customer.  I edge after every log or save them until I get about 6.  Of course it is easier said with the hydraulics and two-plane log clamp.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

4x4American

Aleyska Pete let me play with his cooks edger, and he was saying he gets more life out of his bands on the mill by not sawing through the bark on all the flitches. 
Boy, back in my day..

Magicman

And I suspect that he is correct.  My main dislike is sawing through bark that the debarker can not reach.  There are times when I know that I sacrifice lumber to get below the bark on all of the flitches.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Sixacresand

Quote from: WDH on May 21, 2016, 07:35:42 AM
With the edger, I touch the flitch 4 times.  Once to take it off the mill.  Twice when running it through the edger.  The third time is taking it off the edger outfeed table and stacking on the tractor forks.  The last time is when the board is stickered.

Edging on the mill requires that the board be handled more times.  Once taking it off the mill.  Twice putting it back on the mill.  Third when one edge is straight and clean.  Fourth to flip the board to edge the other side.  Fifth to remove the board off the mill and flat stack.  Six to sticker it.  That is 50% more touches  :).
Either way, it seems like we are wearing out a piece of lumber before we get it stickered on a stack.  From what I have seen with using an edger (and good help), it's  zip, zip, zip and you are done.  So much faster. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Brad_bb

Another way to try to improve the process:
Another thing I've started doing lately is cutting logs into cant.  Partly because I don't have the timber cut list yet, and I want to keep going.  But my thinking is that it takes more time and effort and mess to create the cant.  Once you get a square can't it's pretty straight forward sawing.  So the last week and a half we'be been making cants.  We are working on hardwood logs with a lot of size and length variety.  We did the smaller diameter stuff first and now are on the larger diameter stuff.  We load with the forklift and move the cants to the shed next door.  That way when we have the cut list, it will go much faster.  This also allows us to get all our slabs and cut them up for firewood, clean up all the bark we removed and burn it along with the sawdust.  When we get to sawing the cants, it will be a cleaner and faster job.  One other issue is that I plane a lot of my beams, and I've noticed that Ash(a lot of what I'm cutting) and Osage will tear out when wet.  I'm hoping that allowing some drying on the outside will reduce the tear out?  Another thing I noticed is that you go through more bands from slabs and where you hit some bark.  Osage really does a number on bands too.  If I can do all the rough cutting of the slabs, hopefully I'll keep my bands sharper when cutting the timbers and side boards from the cants.  For example, If I cut two curved osage logs flat on two sides, by that time my band is cutting rough and if I try to saw an ash into lumber, I get a rough cut.  But if I keep sawing into cants, that rough cut is on the outside and will matter less.  When I come back to saw the cants, I can put a fresh band on and get nicer cuts.  There is some more handling, but it's done with the forklift and is really not a significant time issue because I can bring back 3-4 cants from the shed and set them on bunks next to the mill.  I'm not making 8 extra trips with the forklift, only 2.  Just thinking this is more efficient for cleanup and band and quality of cut than completely processing one log at a time.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

barbender

     Brad, my only word of caution on that is that cants like to check as they dry, and those checks will be in the middle of your side lumber. If you're not too concerned about the side oumber, I think sawing cants oversized and then coming back and truing them to final dimensions should work well.
Too many irons in the fire

Thank You Sponsors!