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First Cuts of Spring (BelSaw)

Started by Dave303223, May 14, 2016, 09:49:53 PM

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Dave303223


Happy Spring!  Finally the snow is off the old Belsaw sawmill and got the tractor hooked back up.
Well, sawing is not going as good as it did last summer :(  Saws dragging the tractor down when I tried 14 footers, just can't handle them.....my deck collapsed with three logs on it......after manhandled them on the carriage the tractor is still dragging down causing the blade to heat and dish Grrr!  Nice curved 2X4s if anyone needs them!

Inspecting the blade today I see I have thrown a Bit and Shank to who knows where (glad it didn't hit me!)

I remember I found the explanation somewhere on the blade marking for my Hammer Speed being 600 but can't find it again, anyone have a link to the blade markings??  BTW it's stamped 40 over 38 with 7 to the left and 8 to the right.  Below that is 6 over 78, somehow I got 600 from that, LOL.

I'm pretty sure the first set of numbers is the blade diameter and teeth (it does have 38 teeth) and I think the 6 over 78 was somehow the speed??  Anyway, calling Menominee Monday for some more Bits and Shanks!

My neighbor stopped by on his tractor and said he needed a big beam cut, I said sure but we need to back up that 60 hp Kubota to the saw cause my 24 Yanmar ain't gona cut it, lol.

Hope others digging out from the winter are having better luck.......
Dave
These Are My Mountains

Kbeitz

Blade mills really takes some Hp.
The one next door to me is 600 hp.

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ozarkgem

Quote from: Kbeitz on May 14, 2016, 11:33:03 PM
Blade mills really takes some Hp.
The one next door to me is 600 hp.
How  about some pics of that.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

BUGGUTZ

My Belsaw sports a 40" blade and a 350 Chevrolet 2bbl engine. Probably close to 200HP with the cam it has.
Everyone has to be somewhere.

Kauff44

My sawmill is run off a  straight 6 international. with a 48" blade and does well.

 

Just set up a month ago. need to make some changes tho. 

 
Not sure if im out of squqre or what. the bunk measure off the blade is perfect but im varying on thickness on longer material by up to 1/4". Any ideas what to check for? 8' material seems alright
Thanks, God Bless

svart ole

Dave,

Here is a formula for HP requirements. A bit complex.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwido7-a5-HMAhVB7IMKHWgWC8kQFggkMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Focs.fortlewis.edu%2Fswcommunityforestry%2Fworkshops%2FSawmill%2520Improvement%2Fdata%2FPresentations%2520Articles%2520Worksheets%2FSaw%2520issues%2FHow%2520to%2520Calculate%2520Hp.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFYKpkS9huwxP1uid_mmQ2xV3OpGA&bvm=bv.122129774,d.amc&cad=rja

Here is a link to a handy little booklet. It has a chart with feed, speed and HP requirements.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjlpPqE6eHMAhUKzIMKHaEhCl4QFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.simondsint.com%2Fcircularsaws%2Fcircle%2520sawing%2520publications%2Fld%2520publications%2Fthe%2520efficient%2520saw%2520mill_10-09.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEJWDEVnVu52LxouC4EnW_98EBFhA&bvm=bv.122129774,d.amc&cad=rja

7/8 is a gauge of the saw plate 7 at the center and 8 at the rim. A tooth bite of 1/10 of a inch is what I figure. That depends on wood and summer or winter. Not having enough HP is a big issue. It results in feeding too slow and making fine sawdust that wont stay in the tooth gullet. It spills out and gets between the saw and the cut and will cause heating. Max saw speed 9 to 10000 fpm rim speed is my target. You need to have enough HP so the saw does not pull down in the cut. No more than 100 RPM drop.  I have always like a 80 + HP tractor on a PTO driven mill with a 1000 RPM PTO. That way you can run the saw speed up till it stand up nice and you have enough HP. My favorite engine when I ran a mill with a 50" saw was a 671 Detroit (This one ran backwards CCW at the front). 175 HP lots of torque and a snappy governor. Only way I have been able to saw well with low HP is with a saw with less teeth.
My wife said I collect junk, I told her I am a amateur industrial archaeologist just trying to save valuable artifacts.

Dave303223

Menominee was really helpful on the bit and shank replacements.

Thanks for the info, I really need more HP I know.  I'm looking to try and build a standalone diesel engine/transfer unit to drive the mill.  I can get an engine but not sure how I'll transfer the power out at the speed I need for the saw to run.  I'd like to see more ideas you guys have come up with.  If I could find an old (higher HP) tractor that is junk other than the engine and pto I'd be set!

So on cutting with less HP by less tooth on the saw......How did that work?  Could I take every other bit & shank out and do better in the short term?
These Are My Mountains

Josh3760

I was at a sawmill last summer. It was a pretty good size mill and he just took an old REO semi tractor cut it off behind the cab and removed the front axel. Then just hooked the PTO shaft to the back of the transmission. Worked out pretty slick had 10 speeds to choose from. All the gauges worked, fuel system was all set up, and had some where warm to sit for lunch in the winter.. Lol I believe he did use the power steering pump to run his live deck as well.
Josh

Dave303223

I've been racking my brain on a rig to hook up or an engine PTO clutch combo to get but have too many irons in the fire to spend the $$ this season. Got a CJ5 on the site but use it a lot around the area so don't want to cobble it up.  My Ford 7.3 would do the job but don't think I could get it in position to hook up even if I could rig a PTO off the transfer case (at 9K feet in the Rockies ain't no level place that ain't been cut there :D).

Just going to have to cut smaller stuff and slower until I can get a power unit setup.
These Are My Mountains

svart ole

Dave,

I would not pull teeth and shanks out of a saw as a way to reduce the number of teeth. It will change the tension in the saw for one thing and even if it would work
I would worry about damaging the empty tooth sockets in the saw.

At one time I built a Dixion type mill that was portable/on wheels. Used to tow it with my 83 3/4 ton pickup with a 6.2 diesel. Needed a quick replacement for the tractor I
was using at the time and figured I would just use the truck. Welded up the spider gears in the rear end and hung a governor off a combine motor on it. Made a PTO stub
adapter that bolted to the end of the axle shaft. Would pull the mill out to the woods, jack the rear end up and block it up and hook up the PTO shaft. Hook up the
governor belt and linkage and make sawdust. Pick a gear that would give me what I needed for rpm to make the saw stand up. No shortage of power and did not take
much fuel. Just ran it on the road when I was moving the mill so tire ware was not a issue for me. It worked very well and it was always nice to have a warm cab to take a
brake in on those real cold winter days. One of the up sides of that set up is that depending on what direction you parked the truck you could pick what direction your
output shaft turned. Put a topper on the box and had dry storage area to.
My wife said I collect junk, I told her I am a amateur industrial archaeologist just trying to save valuable artifacts.

Dave303223

Been awhile but finally got some HP to pull the mill.  I found an old Perkins 6.354 diesel that had a Twin Disc PTO on the back. Runs the mill perfect at 700 rpm just above idle.  Only issue is its backwards :o  You knew that was coming right :D

I have a PTO reverser on the way and hope to have it all setup before the snow flys........
These Are My Mountains

Kbeitz

You can take a pumpkin and lock the drive shaft so it cant turn
and drive one wheel and the other will turn backward...
Cheap PTO reverser ...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Dave303223


That would be pretty slick!  Wish I would have thought of that.....
These Are My Mountains

bandmiller2

Most of the original bellsaw  headsaws were hammered to run around 550 rpm as they were designed as a tractor mill. If you turn the engine around so the radiator is facing the mill and use a jack shaft you will get proper rotation. that's also an opportunity to tweak the rpms. Sometimes over winter foundations move and things settle. Spring is a good time to recheck alignment, lead est. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Dave303223

Speaking of hammered speed, mine is hammered for 600.  I have a laser hand tach that I can read the RPM but is it read at the blade (by the bits) or at the arbor /shaft?  It is a big split in RPM.

I was thinking at the arbor just because that matches the Tach on the power source and/or the tractor PTO.
These Are My Mountains

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