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sawmill from ground up

Started by metalshaper, May 13, 2016, 04:50:03 PM

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richhiway

Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

bandmiller2

Shaper, you have an ambitious project. Years ago there must have been an AB Farquar dealer in Ct. I bought one in Colchester from Willie Zagray years ago. Mine was on wheels no engine, I swapped  a stationary steam engine for an Ajax engine that was the right size to mount on the boiler 8 1/2X 11" I ran my sawmill with it summers diesel winters, for obvious reasons. I hydro tested to 160lbs and ran at 80psi to be conservative. To do a good job on oak you need 100psi or more. They were 150psi boilers in their youth but now their pushing 100 years old. Keep us updated. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

jeep534

My buddy and I have been discussing doing just this.  we are cheering you on from the cheep seats.

Happy Hunting
archie

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

bandmiller2

Shaper, when you set up your boiler be sure to leave enough space under the firebox so you can remove the ash box and crawl into the firebox to replace tubes unless your thin enough to crawl through the door. Most likely you have 2" tubes, I became quite adept at replacing them but my ears would ring for days. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

1-2 Tree

Man we don't have many steam engines in east Texas. I work for a company that builds boiler burners the 2 older gentlemen I work for have over a 100 years boiler experience .We have converted a lot of boilers from coal to natural gas I have helped on many boilers in the last 12 years. I own a bandmill but some day I would love to own a steam powered sawmill. One of our engineers converted the steam train at 6 Flags to gas fired in 1967 it was a smaller scale locomotive that was used by a sawmill in Louisiana in the early 1900s. Most the hydros  I have witnessed a are ran at 1.5 times the operating pressures I would love to see the engine run please post some pictures of the feed water system. You can rent the tools to swedge  the tubes depending on the condition of the boiler sheet sometime you still have to weld them because they will leak. Good luck   
I like the smell of saw dust in the mornings !I have a crescent wrench and I know how to use it ! The best hammer I have ever owned !

metalshaper

My boiler is in great shape, tubes, tube sheet, etc...  I am missing my injectors, and will be re plumbing all external pipes as the last owner didn't use schedule 80 or better fittings.  There is very little time on this boiler/engine because it was just a backup unit for a sawmill, and the original unit never wore out.  In the 80's it was hydro tested and put in use for a very short period of time.  It ran great and the two guys who ran it are both good friends of mine.  I will post photos as I make progress. 

metalshaper

Bandmiller, thanks for the tips, and if you have any more please keep them coming. this is my first major sawmill setup and I am open to any ideas from people who have done it before me. Building my carriage, set beam, and all track this winter if time allows.  working with 40' long steel sections and they do get a bit tricky to move around.  Lots of drilling to do but in the end I think the steel will be better than wood.  Most of the original mill is so rotten that as I take it apart it goes into the wood stove.  Thanks again for the tips.
Brian

bandmiller2

Brian, consider yourself lucky to find a boiler in good shape. they usually rust out in the front smoke box due to corrosive products dripping down the stack. My old boiler had thinning of the staybolts over the crown sheet. There is a formula to figure their strength by measuring the thinnest part it figured out to 100psi safe but I'am a little more conservative hence 80psi working pressure. I burned pine slabs, there is enough energy in a logs waste to mill the log into lumber. I ran my mill with diesel in the winter as wood will not keep the boiler warm all night And getting up in the middle of the night gets old fast. I think if you burned coal and banked the fire it would hold through the night. You will find your boiler will hold about 250 gallons of water to the gauge line. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

metalshaper

thanks again for the tips.  The firebox on this boiler is so big i was thinking it would keep warm thru the winter with no problem.  Looks like I can probably get a 1/4 cord of wood in there.  Might have to think of coal also as I don't have a diesel engine for a backup.  Any idea how much water you go thru if you are sawing for a day??  I have a 2000 gallon tank that I am going to bury in the ground, and I am going to dig a shallow well in a wet area to keep it fed with water.  Just wondering how much water I am going to need for a good day of sawing. 
Brian

bandmiller2

Brian, not really sure how much water I used and I seldom cut for more than half a day. I had a 30 gallon barrel to feed a Metropolitan Injector and a hose to replenish the barrel. Depending on your water supply you may need to add chemicals to the feed water. Most of our water is slightly acetic I added a little soda ash to neutralize it. Over night I don't think you would have trouble with the boiler proper freezing but some of the external pipes could fall prey. Keep your eyes peeled for old steam engineering books nothing modern will be much help. Terrell Croft power plant series or Audel boiler books are very helpful. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

metalshaper

thanks again Frank,
I have just about every Audel book ever printed and have a good grasp on the steam end of things.  Just wondering about real life experience when it comes to water use.  I guess I will find out when I start sawing.  I am building a roof over the sawmill and putting the steam engine on the upper level of the sawmill pad.  May close it in with some walls to keep some heat in during the winter.  Long way to go before I am at that stage but always planning. 

Kbeitz

Quote from: metalshaper on December 21, 2016, 03:45:20 PM
thanks again Frank,
I have just about every Audel book ever printed and have a good grasp on the steam end of things.  Just wondering about real life experience when it comes to water use.  I guess I will find out when I start sawing.  I am building a roof over the sawmill and putting the steam engine on the upper level of the sawmill pad.  May close it in with some walls to keep some heat in during the winter.  Long way to go before I am at that stage but always planning.

I would have no less than three pumps to get water into your
boiler.  If a pump fails you could be in big trouble.
I'm looking into buying another boiler and engine this week.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Gearbox

I don't know if it has been asked . What are you going to use for water ? In our old Avery we use water from our local power plant . Our city water has lime added to make it taste better . IF you are going  to use well water have it lab tested or if you have a power plant near they may test it for you . We just did flues in the Avery $ 12,000 it had to be done by a boiler company .2 guys for a week .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Gearbox

We go through 4,000 gal of water in a 3 day show with 1 40 - 80 avery and 2 small 30 hp engines . I would look at some kind of recycle if you can get by without inducing draft with steam exit into the stack .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

metalshaper

Thanks for all the replies.  I do plan on having at least 3 feed water systems in place to keep myself out of trouble. 
I do plan on digging a shallow well to supply water for the boiler.  Here on the farm, our house well was drilled, but shallow by standards.  Not exactly sure how deep but previous owner says 60 feet.  Perfect water and no system added for anything.  Have a shallow well on the property that was hand dug and stone lined a looooong time ago.  I use that well in the barn and have hydrants to all the fields for watering the animals.  Again, perfect water, have it tested every year.  A bit high in tannin because it is in a swampy area.  By the sawmill pad I am going to dig down as far as the excavator will go and line with stone and put in some concrete well tiles.  Once I have water back there I will have it tested.  Not exactly sure what the best water is to run in a boiler, where does the PH need to be?   What would perfect water test like?  Any help would be appreciated.   thanks for giving me an idea of water use for your Avery, it sure does help knowing how much water other people go thru. 

Kbeitz

Quote from: metalshaper on December 22, 2016, 03:05:00 PM
Thanks for all the replies.  I do plan on having at least 3 feed water systems in place to keep myself out of trouble. 
I do plan on digging a shallow well to supply water for the boiler.  Here on the farm, our house well was drilled, but shallow by standards.  Not exactly sure how deep but previous owner says 60 feet.  Perfect water and no system added for anything.  Have a shallow well on the property that was hand dug and stone lined a looooong time ago.  I use that well in the barn and have hydrants to all the fields for watering the animals.  Again, perfect water, have it tested every year.  A bit high in tannin because it is in a swampy area.  By the sawmill pad I am going to dig down as far as the excavator will go and line with stone and put in some concrete well tiles.  Once I have water back there I will have it tested.  Not exactly sure what the best water is to run in a boiler, where does the PH need to be?   What would perfect water test like?  Any help would be appreciated.   thanks for giving me an idea of water use for your Avery, it sure does help knowing how much water other people go thru.

Between  7.5 and 8.5. PH
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

bandmiller2

Brian, I'am going to ramble on a little. When you set up your mill have what I call a spring floor that is boards that have some spring under foot. In our part of the world you don't want to stand on the cold ground in the winter. I have found that its handy to have the top of the mill knees  about the same height as your pant pockets or finger height with your arm by your side. That height keeps you from bending down dogging and undogging the headblocks. Its also much safer some mills have the arbor the same height as where the sawyer stands, that makes it too easy to trip and fall into the saw. If the top of the husk is just below waist height it acts like a railing. You will need a fireman when your under steam I've tried it sawyer, off bearer, and fireman alone, doesn't work out well and production tanks. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

metalshaper

Frank, I always like it when you ramble on so keep it coming.  As you can see from the photos earlier in this post I have the husk sitting on a steel foundation.  From that point I am going to raise/lower the ground on each side to get the height that I want.  From the operator side of the husk I was thinking of about hip height, which would be comfortable to run the saw and dog the log down.  On the other side I was planning on doing just what you describe, waist height so it makes it easier to off load the lumber.  I recently got a Porter slash saw that I plan on setting up to make cutting the slash lumber into suitable size to feed the boiler.  I am planning on a 3 man set up when I get running.  Trouble is my "crew" consists of an 85 year old guy who is a steam wizard,and a 78 year old guy who I got the mill from.  I am going as fast as I can so they can both see the mill in action.  The guy I got it from set it up over 20 years ago, ran the steam engine, but never sawed a log with it.  I sure hope I can get it running soon while they are both still in good health.  As always thank you for the continued input. 

bandmiller2

Brian, you are better off with a sill style boiler for your sawmill, mine had wheels, and their a pain to line up. Once lined up you are loathed to move it anyways. On wheels you will have a problem of the boiler rocking and the flat belt flapping and waving, which to some extent affects your arbor and saw. Once the boiler starts rocking the water starts sloshing and everything is moving. The only cure is to bolt a beam from the top of the rear wheel to the bottom of the front wheels. I got a chuckle when you mentioned the Lane #1 husk being heavy, I have the same husk and it was all my old JD 60 with 45W loader and forks wanted to lift. My mill is a" Chase Da Lane" a Chase mill and a Lane husk. Most of the time I fed the boiler with the Metropolitan injector, also had a cute little Warren duplex steam pump and lastly I could feed the boiler direct from city main pressure. Injectors are interesting devices but don't like to work if their too hot. Most of the problems are caused by a leaky check valve after the injector. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

metalshaper

Trying to get a link out to a youtube video here.  Today I am forging some bolts for the Lane sawmill.  There are a few other videos out there showing the mill progress, but most are of me fabricating parts and restoring an old Willys Jeep. 
Enjoy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjj10DtiLYO

metalshaper

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjjl0DtiLYO
having some trouble with the link.  maybe this will work.

metalshaper

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjjI0DtiLY0
Maybe the third time will work.  Hope it shows up this time. Sorry for problems, with link.

47sawdust

In an older post you  were looking for Lane sawmill parts.LWI metalworks in Morrisville Vermont has some parts and also fabricates parts for Lane sawmills.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

metalshaper

thanks for the note, I did talk to John over at LWI a while ago and was able to get the final piece I needed for the mill build.  Needed one more piece of set rack and he had it for a reasonable price.  Shipped it out right away.  Good guys to deal with if anyone else needs Lane parts. 

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