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Stihl ms 461

Started by motohed, May 11, 2016, 08:21:10 AM

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motohed

Hi guys , I have a chance to buy a brand new MS 461, from my local dealer for 900.00 bucks out the door . So is this a good price ?

Walt

Mine new with a wrap handle a couple months ago was 1065.00 with a 28 inch bar and a 6 pack of oil. Your price seems like a deal to me. Great saw BTW...
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

tburch

Good deal.  I have one.  It's a beast. 
Peterson 10" WPF with slabber. Cooks AC36 Diesel.
'94 Ford 4830 Diesel 2WD & FEL.  Norse 450 skid winch.  Logrite fetching arch.  Fransgard Forestry Grapple.

tburch

What size bar?  Mine came with a 25", and I bought a 36" to go with it.
Peterson 10" WPF with slabber. Cooks AC36 Diesel.
'94 Ford 4830 Diesel 2WD & FEL.  Norse 450 skid winch.  Logrite fetching arch.  Fransgard Forestry Grapple.

motohed

It was with a 20" bar . I was going to buy it today , but the oiler is'nt adjustable on it , unless you buy the 461R . I'm not looking to carry the extra weight , and I just can't understand why Stihl and Husky , are making good sized saws without adjustable oilers . Does anyone know if , the oiler off the 461R will fit the regular 461 . I would think it should .   :-[

Greyhound

All MS461's have adjustable oilers (R or not).

Greyhound

The 461R has the "high output" oiler. Also adjustable, just a little higher max  flow than the standard 461 oiler.  It's not needed for anything but the longest of bars in the driest of conditions.  It takes about $40 and 30 minutes to convert the standard 461 oiler to h.o. If you ever want to do it, I'll be glad to provide you the part numbers and links to the directions.

Straightgrain

Yes, mine cuts like a light saber.

Get the wrap handle and an extra filter sock.
"We fight for and against not men and things as they are, but for and against the caricatures we make of them". Joseph Schumpeter

tburch

The saw hasn't complained, but the MS 461 is pretty stingy with oil.  I have the adjustment max'ed out, and it still only uses about 1/2 tank of oil per tank/fuel.
Peterson 10" WPF with slabber. Cooks AC36 Diesel.
'94 Ford 4830 Diesel 2WD & FEL.  Norse 450 skid winch.  Logrite fetching arch.  Fransgard Forestry Grapple.

Greyhound

Quote from: tburch on May 12, 2016, 04:58:23 PM
The saw hasn't complained, but the MS 461 is pretty stingy with oil.  I have the adjustment max'ed out, and it still only uses about 1/2 tank of oil per tank/fuel.
If you think this is a problem, it can be fixed.  See my post above.

sandsawmill14

my 441 only uses about 1/2 tank of oil per tank of gas too :-\ its does ok with the 25" bar but the 28" heats up some when the cut is over 8' but i dont have to run the 28" all that much but i would like a little more oil :)
far as the price on the 461 it sounds good to me my boss bought 1 about a year ago and it was $1050 with 25" bar and no oil :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

tburch

Quote from: Greyhound on May 12, 2016, 09:55:12 PM
If you think this is a problem, it can be fixed.  See my post above.

Sure, I would like the info please.
Peterson 10" WPF with slabber. Cooks AC36 Diesel.
'94 Ford 4830 Diesel 2WD & FEL.  Norse 450 skid winch.  Logrite fetching arch.  Fransgard Forestry Grapple.

joe_indi

The MS461, in my opinion is one of the best saws ever from Stihl.
Its like the Twilight Zone of saws. Half of it is from the late 90s and the rest from the beginning of this decade.
It has stratification, but not at the inlet. It uses the exhaust gases to do the job. The result is a saw that is like a MS460 on steroids.  :D.
Regarding the oil issue mentioned by  tburch, could the half tank oil remaining be because the fuel is being used up faster (rich carb setting)? Or higher viscosity of the oil?
When you check for oil flow is the chain getting oil and does it splash off as it should be doing?

Joe

tburch

Hi Joe.

I bought the saw new in January 2016.  I have not made any adjustments from the factory settings (except the oil flow).  When I use it, I do not sense a rich mixture from the exhaust.  I am using premixed fuel, 94 octane.  It's blue. 

I am using Stihl oil from the orange jug.  This one: 

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/chainoil/

It seems to be a winter mix (thin oil).  (I use the same oil on my sawmill's slabbing attachment, as it requires a thin winter mix due to only having a gravity flow.)  I do have some other bar oil I use for my Echo saw that is noticeably thicker.  With my Echo saw and the thicker oil, I can run the chain and obtain an oil pattern from the oil slinging off.   I cannot obtain a slinging oil pattern from my MS 461.  My oil flow adjustment screw is turned fully clockwise.  I inspect the oil port too when I chain bars, which is frequently.  No debris clogging the flow on the power head.

When I run my 36" bar on my MS 461, the chain seems really dry.  Too dry.  I believe I am going to get the high flow pump from the MS 461R saw. 

I also use Stihl chains.  (33RS-84 for the 25" bar) 

Thinking my saw had an oiler issue, I did ask (a couple months ago) my distributor about the oil flow.  They stated that it's typical to only use 1/2 tank oil per tank of fuel. 
Peterson 10" WPF with slabber. Cooks AC36 Diesel.
'94 Ford 4830 Diesel 2WD & FEL.  Norse 450 skid winch.  Logrite fetching arch.  Fransgard Forestry Grapple.

tburch

Quote from: joe_indi on May 14, 2016, 08:29:31 AM
The MS461, in my opinion is one of the best saws ever from Stihl...

I have to agree.  The first time I used it, I happened to be wearing shorts.  (I don't make a habit of wearing shorts when I use chainsaws.)  It was the first time I had ever used a chain saw and the exhausted chips actually hurt my legs when they hit them.   
Peterson 10" WPF with slabber. Cooks AC36 Diesel.
'94 Ford 4830 Diesel 2WD & FEL.  Norse 450 skid winch.  Logrite fetching arch.  Fransgard Forestry Grapple.

motohed

I decided to buy a new Jonsered 2172 ported and polished with the muffler mod . I know it's not a ms461 , but the oiling issue just , well you !!!!! I should never have let a guy talk me out of my ,046 and ms 460 . I may buy one after , I get over my episode , LOL , but it will have the oiler changed . I wish someone would come up with a biodegadable bar oil that works , key word being , works . We need a bang head imogie !!!!!!!

DelawhereJoe

According to HolmenTree he uses straight canola oil in his saws with no ill effects, unless you let it set for awhile. Next time I get a chance I plan to run a tank just to see how it acts, but at this rate with work I'm not making it into the woods for a month.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

Greyhound

If you are using 32", 36" bars, definitely upgrade the oiler.  It's faster but ridiculously expensive to buy and replace the whole oiler.  If you have a little time and a negligible amount of mechanical skills, you can do the upgrade for about $40 in parts.

joe_indi

Quote from: Greyhound on May 14, 2016, 11:55:11 AM
If you are using 32", 36" bars, definitely upgrade the oiler.  It's faster but ridiculously expensive to buy and replace the whole oiler.  If you have a little time and a negligible amount of mechanical skills, you can do the upgrade for about $40 in parts.
If you have the time and the skills consider converting the existing oil pump to the one with the higher output.
The standard pump is a 0.8 pump while as the higher output pump is a 1.1 pump. I have no clue to what the 0.8 and 1.1 stand for, maybe the pump stroke in mm or output/second in ml. What matters here is replacing two parts converts the 0.8 standard pump into a high output 1.1 pump. They are:
1128 647 0602 Pump Piston 1.1
and
1128 647 4803 Control Bolt for Piston 1.1
The counter bolt is the adjustment screw, but on the top it functions like a cam to increase the pump's stroke.
Both these items are common to the 046, the 460 and 461.
tburch, If the winter oil is not viscous enough for the present climate, it might not pump enough. Try adding some thicker oil to it and try. You should have only about 100 -80 ml left when the fuel runs out.
Regarding the canola oil Holmen is using, its not a bad idea to use veggie oils. 75% or of the saws running here use veg based oils here, mostly palm oil, which is the cheapest. Safer on the saw and safer for the environment


motohed

Hi guys , I guess , Iv'e gottom over the small oiler problem , with the Stihl ms461 . My question is , will the o46/ms460 dual port muffler fit the ms461 , I was just wondering ? I have a supply of stihl parts etc for many saws Iv'e owned over the years .

motohed

Ok , so I went and picked up my Stihl ms461 today , I had them order the parts for the oiler up grade . I'm thinking about puting on the duel [ort muffler front cover from the 046/ms460 . I was just wondering if anyone has done this , or replace the whole muffler from the previous designations ?  I got out the door for 900.00 with the 25" bar and a new camo Stihl hat .    8)

Walt

"Watch this".......Why mess with perfection. run it like it is, mines an animal, box stock.....
Mines the R version and it shows chain oil spray with a 28 inch bar. The oiler is wide open. You got a good deal and a nice hat to boot, enjoy.
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

joe_indi

Quote from: motohed on May 20, 2016, 09:54:30 AM
I'm thinking about puting on the duel [ort muffler front cover from the 046/ms460 . I was just wondering if anyone has done this
That is a definite BIG yes! We fit them here. It will be a good thing if you were to also order a 0.70 fixed jet to replace the stock 0.68 one.

motohed

Hi joe , I was wondering if that was a direct bolt on , or if you had to modify it to fit . It's been so long since , I've done ahything with stihls that I can't remember. LOL

joe_indi

Motohed, it is a direct fit. Since the dual port increases the air flow, it is advisable to allow the carb to run a bit richer with a 0.70 jet. But not absolutely necessary. Joe

Spartan

Quote from: motohed on May 20, 2016, 09:54:30 AMI'm thinking about puting on the duel [ort muffler front cover from the 046/ms460 . I was just wondering if anyone has done this , or replace the whole muffler from the previous designations ? 

I put the dual port cover on mine.  Never noticed a difference in power, just louder.  If you like loud go for it.  Otherwise save your cash for sharpening tools cause that will help it cut faster than any muffler port will.

motohed

The cover itself will not give you any extra power , without working the rest of the muffler . I have the sharpening down , with over 40 years at it .

Wildman Ben

I'm up in Canada, bought my ms 461 magnum with full wrap, artic package which is handle warmers, 28" bar and chain for $1300 CAD.

I replaced the full muffler with a dual port I got off ebay, its just completley open inside not like the stock one, sound is deffinatley louder must have got a bit of power also, whats this about upgrading the jet, can I not just fiddle with the screws to get the same effect or is the bigger jet a good idea? and where can I get this item and instructions on installing it?

Wildman Ben

how do you guys find tuning these new saws? since its got the computer in it you have to tune the high side in the cut, I find this difficult to do :/ anybody got any tips? do you use tachometers at all? with my work im always gaining and dropping lots of elevation so I need to adjust pretty often on site.

DelawhereJoe

Come to Delaware, you'll never need to adjust the carb for altitude again. The state runs between 0'-448' in elevation.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

motohed

I like to put the saw in the wood with a tach and tweek it to max rpm under load . Thats the best you can get . I would'nt do it with a bar over 20 to 24 inches .

Straightgrain

Quote from: Wildman Ben on May 24, 2016, 09:10:52 PM
how do you guys find tuning these new saws? since its got the computer in it you have to tune the high side in the cut, I find this difficult to do :/ anybody got any tips? do you use tachometers at all? with my work im always gaining and dropping lots of elevation so I need to adjust pretty often on site.

Run a couple tanks at low-moderate RPMs and give the new saw a chance to self-adjust.
"We fight for and against not men and things as they are, but for and against the caricatures we make of them". Joseph Schumpeter

49er

I would tune a 461 like any other saw, that is in the wood listening to 4 stroke. I would use the tack only to make sure I was not up against the rev limiter. When the saw hits the limiter it sounds like it is 4 stroking. I don't know if a 461 revs that high stock, I never ran one but a 7900 will.
Husqvarna EC390 365xt
Jonsered 2188 2165 2260 2253 70e
Redmax GZ4000

khntr85

Quote from: motohed on May 20, 2016, 09:54:30 AM
Ok , so I went and picked up my Stihl ms461 today , I had them order the parts for the oiler up grade . I'm thinking about puting on the duel [ort muffler front cover from the 046/ms460 . I was just wondering if anyone has done this , or replace the whole muffler from the previous designations ?  I got out the door for 900.00 with the 25" bar and a new camo Stihl hat .    8)

  Hey good purchase you will love the saw...I also got my ms461 for the same price with a 25" bar... I also got a 20" bar for it, I know that seems small but when cutting shagbark hickory, it is a good pairing.... I do know that it takes 10-15 tanks of fuel to break these bad boys in.... Once mine started breaking in she is now a beast... Also you can tell the compression went up because when starting the saw you have to pull the cord hard and brisk!!!
  I was goin to add some pics but can't figure out how to!!!

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