Forwarding trailers

[celliott]

So, the man I work for is wanting to buy a new forwarding trailer. We currently have a Patu 203. We need a longer reach basically. One of the biggest uses for the trailer is when we maintain the Rail Trails here in VT, we cut hazard\dead trees that could potentially fall into the trail, as well as trying to create a "tunnel effect" with the foliage, while ensuring the trail is wide enough for a highway truck or ambulance to go through smoothly.
We attach a PTO chipper behind a big FEL tractor, and attach the forwarding trailer to the chipper, so we basically have a land train going down the trail. Anything that's big enough gets put into firewood, otherwise, we feed the chipper with the trailer. Works pretty well. Problem is, more often than not we are 4-6 feet short of grabbing a tree with the trailer off the edge of the trail. So, grab a chain, hook it on, pull in, unhook chain, grab tree with loader, repeat. So longer reach would really help us out there.
We do some thinning projects occasionally, but not production oriented (actually slower is better, so we don't damage too many maple trees) and some firewood is the primary woods use of the trailer. We have 100hp+ 4wd farm tractors to pull it, so the 4wd option isn't necessary. If it's slippery in the woods, we won't go. If it's steep, we'll use a winch. The rail trail is flat. We also want to be able to put a sap tank on it as a backup sap hauler from the nearby woods with a muddy driveway. That's our primary usage, which might amount to 1.5-2 months a year.

I checked out a couple at the expo on Saturday. Not all the brands I've considered (online research) were represented there. Especially Kesla (Patu is now Kesla) I really wanted to talk to them and try to get a value put on our used 203. Maybe everyone here can help with that?

Patu 203- Valvebank leaks, grapple rotator leaks a little, the hydraulic hoses are starting to show their age. Other than that, the paint is a bit faded, but it really hasn't seen alot of use (especially not alot in the woods) Tires are in good shape, all functions work as they should, not dinged up. I think it might have been $20k new. Figure maybe half of new and go from there? Or........? Pretty sure it will be easy to sell. Fact is, I know a guy who wants to buy it already. But we want to treat them fairly, given the leaky valvebank, etc...

[celliott]

The farma trailers at the expo seemed pretty decent, maybe their 9 ton trailer with a 21' loader. The way the salesman talked, we couldn't get the bigger loader (27') on smaller than a 12 ton trailer, and then the 4wd is a must, and 4wd adds a big chunk to the price tag. 2 months out on a new one, and who knows how long on parts?

There was a farmi dealer, but he didn't have any on display. They seem like a very well built trailer. I liked the vario 121, with the 6185 loader. However the price tag is pretty steep compared to other similar capacity\loader trailers. $57k... 8 weeks+ out for a new one.

And the Metavic's. They didn't have the specific model, but the 2100xt(hd) is what I'd consider. 24' reach, 12 ton capacity. I liked that it had standard hydraulic fittings. Also it has a twin beam construction VS single on all the others, and this would be easier to adapt a sap tank to it. The dealer mentioned a possibly upgraded mast bearing coming out, I guess he sold one that the man uses alot, and the bearing hasn't held up with the bigger loader. Anyone else know about this?
Another plus is the dealer is a few towns over. Closest by far. And he says he keeps lots of parts in stock. Plus their made in Quebec which isn't far anyways for parts.
Only drawback I thought of with the Metavic is the swing bearing (we might be fine with the next size down though) and that you have to special order an option for the loader to swing beyond 270 degrees. It's a $1700 option for 330 degree swing, which is probably a must for feeding the chipper.


I'm leaning towards the Metavic. Would have liked to see a Kesla trailer in person, the Patu we have now is a fine trailer.

[bill m]

I spent a few years researching trailers before I bought mine.

 
It's a Metavic 7 ton trailer with hydraulic drive assist and the 1400xt loader. I know it is a bit of a ride but if you wanted to see it in operation I am moving it this week to my sugarbush to continue the logging there.

[celliott]

Bill, are you happy with the company and parts support from Metavic?
That's a concern I have with some of these European trailers (the Farma is built in Estonia) if it takes them 2 months to get us a new trailer, how long for a part the dealer may not have?

I talked to Pete's equipment, in Morrisville about the Metavic.

Always impressed when I see pictures of what you do with that trailer. If this were to be a full time trailer in the woods, I agree the hydraulic drive would be a must. But the woods work is limited, and if we do, it's not production oriented so we can get by.

[bill m]

Company has been first class all the way. Only part I have needed was the lower mast bearing that broke and that was my fault. I was trying to load a log that was in a difficult spot and was way to big for the loader, 21 feet long and over 28 inches on the small end. I needed the hyd. drive assist because I am almost never on flat ground and my tractor is only 55 hp. I bought it new in Feb. 2008.

[celliott]

The salesman said he sold a 2100xt to a guy in Maine who used it full time in the woods, and after a time the same bearing you are talking about broke, and has a few times. I guess the salesman thought it was just too small for the bigger loader, and said they may have an update for newer ones.
But for the amount it will get used, I gotta think it'll be alright.

[celliott]

Here is the used Patu. I forgot, it also has an extension bunk on it. Handles a 16' log with no overhang on the end. It is a 2003 model.

Any idea where to start price wise on this thing?



Leaky valvebank...

[Hiway40frank]

I too want onebut my problem is finding somthing small that dors not cost an arm n leg. The lowest price I found was 12k for a woody made in canada. Would really like to know if anyone knows of anyone who makes an entry level trailer for say under 10k? Would like to spend more like 5k.

[celliott]

Can't help you there. I know all the big names make smaller trailers but I don't know about the prices. I was looking at the bigger ones.
I saw the woody trailer at the expo, I don't think they make one big enough for our needs.

[bill m]

I wouldn't be afraid to ask for $15,000 to $16,000 to start. You can always go down if needed. It doesn't look abused and they hold their value well.

[lopet]

Agree, you can always lower your price. On the other hand if it has some leaks, it sometimes scares people away with all the insane parts prices we have.
The dealer may give you half what you paid for if you stay with the same brand but than he wants to sell it for a couple of K more.  :(
Love your redneck hydraulic oil recycling system.  8)

[celliott]

I wouldn't be afraid to ask for $15,000 to $16,000 to start. You can always go down if needed. It doesn't look abused and they hold their value well.

That much, really? Hmm. I wasn't thinking that high but yeah, easier to go down in price than up! It hasn't been abused and really has seen little use. The valve bank is troublesome, but, if it can sell for that it'd be awesome. I think the boss paid around $20k 10 or so years ago so that would mean the value holds really well.
I think they priced a new valve bank at $4000, I think the fittings, seals and such are oddball size, making a rebuild tricky.

Lopet, there's a lot of redneck engineered stuff around here  ;) amazing what farmers, loggers and sugar makers can come up with to keep stuff working!

[woodmills1]

I love my metavic.  Get one with the headboard winch and you can grab the faraway stuff.  Look into buying from Payeur.  I have had good results using them for parts.                                                                                             

 

[bill m]

Payeur is no longer a distributor for Metavic. They are making their own trailers and loaders and I don't think they look as good as the ones from Metavic.  $4000 for a valve bank is way out of line. IMHO You should be able to get a sectional valve for $1000 to $1500. When I did my log truck my 6 spool valve was less then $800. This was about 2 years ago.

[woodmills1]

I didn't know!  Checking the payeur website shows one payeur trailer and then woodys trailers.  My metavic is good at what it does.

[David-L]

If I was to buy another I would consider the twin beam frame and drive assist. mine is a Vreten 21' crane and a 9T Kelsa trailer. Bill M, who do you deal with for Valve bank stuff. Eventually I will need a rebuild. Celliott, 12k and that set up would be an easy sell IMO, so start at 15k.



 

[bill m]

David-L, there is a hydraulic repair shop about 30 minutes from my house in NY. Mooradian Hydraulics. They treat me very well.

[BargeMonkey]

We buy alot of hydraulic components from "surplus center", converted my 230 forwarder to joystick for about 1500. If you do deal with Morradian for anything more than a hose or off the shelf part I can't recommend enough to drive the extra distance to the Latham store and deal with Mike directly.

[78NHTFY]

Nice looking PATU--I have the smaller 525.   

  Valve banks were leaking so I bought repair kit (two  O rings and 2 plastic sleeves--Trottier Sales, a John Deere dealer locally).  Must be fairly simple to fix 'cause I managed with almost no mechanical ability.  Would think the 203 is definitely worth $ 15M.  All the best, Rob.

[motohed]

I'll be honest the trailers look cool but for the money , I think I would just buy a nice used forwarder , between a tractor and trailer , you could spend less money in the market at this time . JMHO

[woodmills1]

Don't forget that the tractor does many other things and a forwarder is just a forwarder.

[motohed]

I know ,but it also frees up the tractor to do other things , and a forwarder will go more places than a tractor . JMHO

[woodmills1]

I bought a blue ox so I could do road logs.  I would still need a dump truck If i had a log truck.  I bought my metavic so i could pick up woods logs as I would still need a tractor if I had a forwarder.  Things might be different for a larger operation, but for me a single owner operator I need to max out the value of each piece to reduce my cash outlay.  I always think I should get a unimog when I see the videos of the attachments for them

[motohed]

No harm , no foul . I'm just saying , Iv'e used both and the forwarder has worked very well . The logs don't get dirty from skidding and it will go anywhere a skidder will .

[bill m]

I'll be honest the trailers look cool but for the money , I think I would just buy a nice used forwarder , between a tractor and trailer , you could spend less money in the market at this time . JMHO

How much do you think a good used forwarder will cost? My tractor and trailer brand new was less then $60,00. Sure there are places a forwarder can go that my tractor/trailer can't but there are more places it will go that a forwarder can't. There are so many reasons a tractor and trailer work best for my 1 man operation I don't think I could list them all here.

[BargeMonkey]

 Unless your set up for a forwarder, have something to bunch with and own a lowboy I wouldnt buy one. The tractor / wagon set up is too handy, your not tied to a 1 use machine, not your not getting 4 cord but can still do quite a bit of work. Anything that's under 50K bucks is going to have issues, the rare finds get jumped on quick. I paid 20k for mine, and have put 10k in it, would go nuts if I had to sit in the squirrel cage with that 353 everyday to make a living.

[celliott]

I'll be honest the trailers look cool but for the money , I think I would just buy a nice used forwarder , between a tractor and trailer , you could spend less money in the market at this time . JMHO

Except our main use of the trailer is not in a forest application. Removing hazard trees and feeding a chipper, on recreational multiple use trails. That's the money maker for the trailer. They'd hate to see a 6 wheel forwarder rolling down that trail! We do some thinning projects, but then production is not key, saving and not damaging small maple trees is key.
We did cut 3-4 loads of spruce/fir this spring, and it was fun, the trailer worked fine. But that was an aside to a thinning.

[David-L]

Well not to start anything, but I have been places with skidders that no one in there right mind would put a forwarder. I have operated both and every machine has it's limits.

[celliott]

Well the Patu got sold locally to the brother of a guy we're doing a tubing system for.

The boss decided on a Farma trailer, and one is on order. I guess he seemed to like how they were built, and the price the best.
We got a 12 ton trailer with a 7m crane (21ft, fully extended) and the big float implement tires, with brakes. I'll get some pictures when it arrives and we get to test it out  to make sure it works, you know  ;)

[celliott]

I got to run the Farma trailer the other day. I can already tell the extendable boom is going to be invaluable. I also like that the crane is long enough to work directly off the end of the trailer, the patu we could not.
The controls are set up a little differently, it will take some getting used to. On the patu there was a "dogleg"? lever for the grapple rotation and opening. The Farma does not have this.

The brakes work very well. Hydraulically operated from within the cab, they are strong enough to hold the loaded trailer and 120hp tractor on a hill. You can stall the tractor (or drag the tires  : ) if you try and take off with the brakes still engaged.
The big float tires and the brakes will be really nice when we put a saptank on it and haul muddy\snowy roads with a good sized hill.

Haven't got any pictures yet, sorry... will try next time I get to run it!