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vegetable oil for bar oil ???

Started by sandsawmill14, May 04, 2016, 07:07:58 AM

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DeerMeadowFarm

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 09:15:54 AM
And thats why divers get attacked by sharks so often....

Would you like fries with that?  :D

derhntr

Wal-Mart has Liquid Wrench Bio Based bar oil for $43.63 a gal. :o Think I will run down a get a couple gallons NOT!!!!!!!
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

danbuendgen

I am not saying that you guys are lying about your results or anything...
I have tried the Bio Bar and Chain oil from my local saw shop (land owner's request) and I didn't think it was as good quality at all... I had the same issues with the chain getting sticky if I didn't use the saw everyday. It was very very thin in summer and would FLY off the chain, and too thick in winter. The chain was always DRY and I would blow bar tips right and left... When I run regular bar and chain, I don't have any issues and the chain is sopping wet. Is it really better for the planet or your health?? Maybe so, all I know is that I poured a equal amount (one cup) of Bio B&C and Conventional B&C in my lawn, and both oils killed my grass overnight... Plus I can get conventional B&C for under $10 and Bio oil is over $20 per gallon! Logging has enough expenses, last thing I want to do it make my operation costs go up. Why pay more for less quality??!!
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

John Mc

I had the sticky problem with the veggie based bar oil years ago. The manufacturer reformulated and it worked much better. I could actually turn down my oiler with the veggie-based stuff compared to what I had to set it on for petro-oil.

I use the Stihl veggie oil now because it's the only stuff that is easily available in my area. Not cheap, but on two of the places I regularly cut firewood, it's REQUIRED to use it. I'm happy with the quality, have used it down to about 15˚F with no problems, and also use it in the summer (though I avoid doing extensive chainsaw use when the temps get really hot - which by VT standards means upper 80s or more).
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Czech_Made

There are additives to make veggie oil more sticky.

ppine

My uncle used it for years for butchering big animals like moose.
For everything else, I think it is too thin without enough viscosity.  The rotation of the chain tends to fling it off.
Forester

danbuendgen

Quote from: ppine on June 15, 2016, 09:48:08 AM
For everything else, I think it is too thin without enough viscosity.  The rotation of the chain tends to fling it off.

This was my experience, the oil would FLY off and the chain would always be dry. And I kept blowing new bar tips... When I run the conventional bar and chain, I have no issues and my bar tips last forever...

Also, the Stihl Bio B&C is made from waste veggie oil from restaurants, that's why it's so dark looking, No way would I run a waste product in a $800+ chain saw!
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

HolmenTree

Quote from: danbuendgen on June 15, 2016, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: ppine on June 15, 2016, 09:48:08 AM
For everything else, I think it is too thin without enough viscosity.  The rotation of the chain tends to fling it off.

Also, the Stihl Bio B&C is made from waste veggie oil from restaurants, that's why it's so dark looking, No way would I run a waste product in a $800+ chain saw!
Show us proof Stihl uses waste veggie oil.

Stihl just spent $99 Million US.dollars in upgrades. Do you think their going to mess with waste oil.
And even if they did it's the right thing to do in a green business sense and still have the best quality product on the market.

http://www.powerequipmenttrade.com/stihl-completes-multi-million-investment-germany/
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

ppine

If you have a Swedish or German saw and use it hard and make a living with it, why would you even consider going cheap and using dirty engine oil for your bar oiler?

Lubricants are very important for chain saws to function. They run at high rpms and generate a lot of heat. Use the best lubricants you can find.  I used to use "Optimol" made in Germany. Now there are probably better ones. It cost more, but lasted longer.  You could use less in a tank.
Forester

danbuendgen

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 15, 2016, 11:01:20 PM
Quote from: danbuendgen on June 15, 2016, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: ppine on June 15, 2016, 09:48:08 AM
For everything else, I think it is too thin without enough viscosity.  The rotation of the chain tends to fling it off.

Also, the Stihl Bio B&C is made from waste veggie oil from restaurants, that's why it's so dark looking, No way would I run a waste product in a $800+ chain saw!
Show us proof Stihl uses waste veggie oil.

Stihl just spent $99 Million US.dollars in upgrades. Do you think their going to mess with waste oil.
And even if they did it's the right thing to do in a green business sense and still have the best quality product on the market.

http://www.powerequipmenttrade.com/stihl-completes-multi-million-investment-germany/

I don't want to start a war, I don't care what folks use for B&C. All I know is the last time I used the Stihl Bio oil it was very dark brown, then I tried the Husky type and it was very light in color, my local saw shop told me (at the time, 2 years ago) that Husky used virgin oil from sunflowers, and Stihl used waste veggie oil. And that's how it looked when I poured it out...

Also, I don't want to be a jerk, I don't understand "Green Business Sense". With the amount of fuel I burn, gas and diesel, the small leaks in the equipment, tires I buy, blowing hydraulic hoses, buying oil constantly, oil changes every 100 hours in the 240 with Detroit, 200 in the Rottne, one or two tubes of grease per day in the logging equipment, there is nothing "Green" in the industry, Period. I am all about curbing pollution, eating health organic veggies from my garden, but again, the bio oil kills the lawn just like the conventional oil does, the "Green Revolution" seems to be a scam to me. Just a way for some people to make lots of money off everyone....
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

HolmenTree

Well said Dan,  but we're just talking about a little chain saw oil selection not for a Timber Jack 240 skidder and other logging equipment.
Don't always believe what your saw dealer says . The Stihl Bio was probably old inventory sitting for years.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

ppine

Dan brings up a good point. There is nothing wrong with being aware of the effects of the decisions we make.  A lot of the advertising is hype to sell stuff.  Separate it from the realities of making a living and making your equipment last.
Forester

danbuendgen

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 16, 2016, 10:17:30 PM
Well said Dan,  but we're just talking about a little chain saw oil selection not for a Timber Jack 240 skidder and other logging equipment.
Don't always believe what your saw dealer says . The Stihl Bio was probably old inventory sitting for years.

I am just saying that the logging/tree service/firewood industry is not "Green" at all but, honestly nothing else is either. I mean, we all drive a car, heat our homes, use electricity, go to the landfill, buy food from half way across the planet, ect, none of which are Green or sustainable.

Also, when I mentioned my equipment before, just saying that I honestly can't afford to spend more on something as trivial as bar oil, my costs are high enough as it is. For a home owner cutting up some firewood now and then, that's a different economical story all together...one gallon of b&c could last them a year! I can go through a 2 cases of b&c a week if I work 7 days, that would be around $180 per week, so I want the cheap stuff that works well, for under half the cost, And in my experience double the quality...

And I am not anti-bio b&c, I could care less about bar oil types. I just haven't had good luck with any of the brands of bio oil that I have tried, Stihl and Husky and some thing else I can't remember what it is. In fact I have had nothing but problems with it. And with my little DIY back yard science experiment, both oils killed the lawn bio and conventional, so I don't bio b&c any better for the planet. And I don't think the Stihl oil was sitting around for years, they move a lot of it. Lots of "crunchy" home owners go in there and buy it. And the Asplundh and Davey crews are required to use it when working around wet lands, I see them buying it by the case full.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

ppine

On the other hand, forestry is one of the original green industries.  We grow everything we need. The old log trains ran on waste wood from the logging operations.  Burning wood for heat is carbon neutral because combustion releases the same amount of carbon that was absorbed by the a tree during its life.
Forester

danbuendgen

Quote from: ppine on June 19, 2016, 07:57:08 PM
On the other hand, forestry is one of the original green industries.  We grow everything we need. The old log trains ran on waste wood from the logging operations.  Burning wood for heat is carbon neutral because combustion releases the same amount of carbon that was absorbed by the a tree during its life.

You are totally right about that, it goes both ways. I just get upset about all the petroleum products needed now-a-days...I hate having to give so much of my hard earned money right to big oil company's and I honestly forget how logging has good benefits also...
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

HolmenTree

To be honest I never bought Stihl or Husqvarna bio oil.
Only canola oil from the grocery store for about $6 a gallon jug.
I've  been running saws for 42 years now and my lungs are not as good as they used to be.
I use the canola as its been proven that petroleum bar mist in the air is hazardous to your lungs. And since running canola for about 10 years now I'm  breathing alot better.
Also running Stihl Ultra full synthetic mix in my fuel which is also claimed to be bio degradable.
You're only 29 now Dan but trust me it will catch up with you.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

skipster

I'm going to try the canola oil,but i find stihl Ultra gives me headaches (known phenomena)

danbuendgen

Quote from: skipster on June 20, 2016, 04:03:09 AM
I'm going to try the canola oil,but i find stihl Ultra gives me headaches (known phenomena)

I had a buddy helping me last winter, and he ran the Stihl saws and Stihl Ultra saw fuel, and I could not stand the smell. I could smell the exhaust from a long ways away... I used some of his saw fuel once when I was low, and I could not stand it. It also gave me a headache...I am sure its good quality, but it smelled awful.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

danbuendgen

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 19, 2016, 11:45:50 PM
Only canola oil from the grocery store for about $6 a gallon jug.
I've  been running saws for 42 years now and my lungs are not as good as they used to be.
I use the canola as its been proven that petroleum bar mist in the air is hazardous to your lungs. And since running canola for about 10 years now I'm  breathing alot better.

Oh, I know the bar oil mist in not good. Nothing is these days, I just spent all day working on my forwarder. I got covered in machine grime from fingertip to shoulder... I know that crap causes cancer... We live in a nasty world.

Holmantree, you run canola oil and don't have any issues with your bar and chain gumming up if you don't run the saw daily? How long do your bar tips and oil pump last? I see you do tree work, that is what I used to do before logging, so I know you don't put a ton of hours on a saw in a day, but I am just wondering how long you tips and pumps last. At $6 per gallon that's cheap... I would consider trying it if I knew my saws would not have issues. I cant afford downtime. Like have said before, I have had poor luck with the Stihl and Husky Bio Oil, and its $20 per gallon. I am well aware of the effects of oil mist and saw exhaust... If the canola oil works for you long term I would try it.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

DelawhereJoe

When I get a chance to start cutting again, to busy at work and yard care, I think I'm gonna try a 50/50 mix of canola and bar oil hoping to doesn't gum up as bad for sitting for a few weeks.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

HolmenTree

Never had a issue with bar tips, oil pumps or gumming up problems running canola. A saw can sit for the summer and never had issues. Had a chain once that I hung on the wall for a couple of years after running it with canola and it got pretty stiff. Soaked it in varasol for a few seconds and was as limber as a noodle again.

If the saw is put in storage let's say 6 months then yes drain the canola and run the saw for a bit with regular bar oil .

I'm  not running canola to save money... far from it.
Just for my lungs and forgot to mention my wife like it not grimeing up the washing machine.
Just give it a try and see what you think....that's the only advice I can give you. ::)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

danbuendgen

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 20, 2016, 10:29:32 PM
If the saw is put in storage let's say 6 months then yes drain the canola and run the saw for a bit with regular bar oil .

My saws never sit around, I work 6-7 days per week if the weather is good. The only time I slow down, on rain days. There is mud season (spring time) also, but then I am busy working on firewood. So the most they sit is a few days to a week. When I was running the bio bar oil my chain and bar rails would gum up in a few days...especially in summer time. Seems like the heat from the bar and chain would make it much worse. I will price out the canola oil next time I am at the grocery store.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Spike60

I keep the Husky Pro-Forest in stock for those who want to run it. I don't use it myself. I won't get into the politcal aspect of the debate, but there are some realties that exist on saws that see a lot of this oil.

Primarily there is a caking problem that affects the cooling of the saw, and the ease of working on it. The veg oil mixes with the sawdust and literally bakes itself into a much harder substance than you get with conventional bar oil. In most cases this stuff can't be blown out with air and must be scraped out with tools. If not maintained properly it will build up and cook the saw.

Some oils are worse than others. The Husky oil seems to be in the middle as far as this issue goes. I had one tree service customer who was using some oil he was buying from Canada that was horrible. The build up would get rock hard and it was a pain just to work on the saws. Every screw head had to be scraped clean and "excavated" so you could get a tool in it. Every saw had a gross smell to it; in fact the whole shop would have that smell when he'd drop off some saws.

Got to the point that I had to tell him either he changes oil or he needs to find another shop. I just didn't want to work on those saws anymore. Keep in mind, that this is one of my best customers, but that's how bad it was and I had enough. From his perspective, he accepted the reality that some of his saws blowing up was due to that hardened build up. He switched to the Husky oil and we're both a lot happier now.  :laugh:
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

John Mc

The stuff I had the problem with years ago with it stiffening up on the chain (and now that Spike60 mentioned it, it also caked onto other parts of the saw) was also from Canada. That was back in 2007 or 2008, I believe. A couple of years later, they must have reformulated it, because the problem got noticeably better (but did not go away entirely). 

The local supplier stopped carrying it. I've never had the problem with the Stihl stuff. I haven't tried the Husqvarna veggie oil yet. I've not seen anyone around here carrying it.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

HolmenTree

I think the problem with canola (Canadian oil low acid) is it doesn't work in the United States  :D :) ;)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

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