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Why is bar nose so easily worn out on BOSCH AKE 30 S ?

Started by Woodwood, April 30, 2016, 05:19:18 AM

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Woodwood

Hi, thank's for admitting me to this forum :-)

I am cutting a lot of pallets for firewoods every week - to save money on heating.

But the bars are expensive and my bars are easily worn out on the nose  :-\ How can that be? I am not using the nose of the bar to cut the pallets....

I tried to research on this, but didn't find the reason.

Any ideas? :-)

Thank you very much,

Patrick

pstanton

I used pallets for firewood for years, but used a carpenters electric "skil" saw to cut them up.

Savannahdan

Patrick - My bars have to be greased occasionally.  Oregon 26365 is one product out there for this.
Dan
Husqvarna 3120XP, Makita DCS7901 Chainsaw, 30" & 56" Granberg Chain Saw Mill, Logosol M8 Farmers Mill

CTYank

Quote from: Savannahdan on April 30, 2016, 07:42:07 AM
Patrick - My bars have to be greased occasionally.  Oregon 26365 is one product out there for this.
Dan

Back to the top- what is a "Bosch AKE 30 S"? We're presuming it has a sprocket nose that can be lubed? My tool of choice for busting up skids is a P-C saber (recip) saw. Suitable for cutting up steel. Handles nails & staples effortlessly with suitable blade- a BIG PLUS.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

fossil

They wear out due to insufficient lube as Savannahdan said.

Are you using bar and chain oil?
Tim

lumberjack48

 Sounds like its not getting enough oil. When you burn a tank of saw gas your oil tank should be just about empty. As far as greasing the bar, i quit doing that back in the 70's. It was a proven fact that a roller nose would last x times longer if you didn't grease it. The last Stihl bars i bought back in the 90's didn't have a hole for a grease gun.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Woodwood

Hi!

Thanks a lot, for all of your replies!

Quote from: Savannahdan on April 30, 2016, 07:42:07 AM
Patrick - My bars have to be greased occasionally.  Oregon 26365 is one product out there for this.
Dan

I am not using any bar oil - as I only have one tank on my electric chainsaw to put the chain-saw oil (I am using this one: http://www.harald-nyborg.dk/p7977/sana-kaedesavsolie-4l )

Quote from: CTYank on April 30, 2016, 09:05:14 AM
Back to the top- what is a "Bosch AKE 30 S"? We're presuming it has a sprocket nose that can be lubed? My tool of choice for busting up skids is a P-C saber (recip) saw. Suitable for cutting up steel. Handles nails & staples effortlessly with suitable blade- a BIG PLUS.

This is it: https://www.bosch-garden.com/gb/en/garden-tools/garden-tools/ake-30-s-3165140536714-199968.jsp

I am only cutting in the wood on the pallets - well, sometimes I do hit a nail by mistake, but not very often. I assume it would take a lot more time to cut the pallets with a reciprocating saw.

Quote from: lumberjack48 on April 30, 2016, 03:40:14 PM
Sounds like its not getting enough oil. When you burn a tank of saw gas your oil tank should be just about empty. As far as greasing the bar, i quit doing that back in the 70's. It was a proven fact that a roller nose would last x times longer if you didn't grease it. The last Stihl bars i bought back in the 90's didn't have a hole for a grease gun.

I don't have a roller nose on my sword. Could that be the reason why the nose wears out so fast?

ladylake



  If you cut on the top side of the bar that will put a lot of pressure on the bar tip wearing it faster, cutting on the bottom with the chain a little loose shouldn't wear the bar tip much.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

starmac

I couldn't decipher that oil add, but assume that chainsaw oil is the same thing we call bar oil.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Woodwood

Quote from: ladylake on May 01, 2016, 05:27:19 AM
  If you cut on the top side of the bar that will put a lot of pressure on the bar tip wearing it faster, cutting on the bottom with the chain a little loose shouldn't wear the bar tip much.  Steve

That could definitely be a contributing factor! Thanks, I will never cut with the top side of the bar again. I think I have been doing that around 10% of the time actually. Maybe this will reduce my "bar-budget" in the future ... :-) Thanks!

Quote from: starmac on May 01, 2016, 10:50:06 AM
I couldn't decipher that oil add, but assume that chainsaw oil is the same thing we call bar oil.

The add says that it lubricates both the bar and the chain.

John Mc

Can you post a picture of your worn bar with the chain removed from the bar?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

sawguy21

The saw should deliver enough chain oil to lubricate the bar tip. Are you periodically removing the bar and cleaning the groove and using a good quality chain oil? You may also be running the chain too tight
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Cedar Eater

Is the bar mostly wearing on one side (top or bottom, left or right)? Can the bar be removed and rotated bottom for top to even out the wear? I sometimes file the edges of the bar when I have a chain off to square them. Have you tried that?
Cedar Eater

Woodwood

Quote from: John Mc on May 02, 2016, 10:46:29 AM
Can you post a picture of your worn bar with the chain removed from the bar?



Quote from: sawguy21 on May 02, 2016, 11:32:28 AM
The saw should deliver enough chain oil to lubricate the bar tip. Are you periodically removing the bar and cleaning the groove and using a good quality chain oil? You may also be running the chain too tight

I never cleaned the groove - it always seems clean.
I am trying to keep the chain a little loose, so that should not be the problem.

Quote from: Cedar Eater on May 02, 2016, 11:53:47 AM
Is the bar mostly wearing on one side (top or bottom, left or right)? Can the bar be removed and rotated bottom for top to even out the wear? I sometimes file the edges of the bar when I have a chain off to square them. Have you tried that?

It's mostly wearing on the left side, all the way from the top to the bottom of the nose, as shown on the picture. The big change on the bar is, that the side of the bar has been "moving" a couple of millimeters forward. The chain still fits on the bar, but now the side of the bar that "moved forward" is touching the chain rivets. Therefore, when I use it like this, it is creating a lot of sparks.

It is a brilliant idea to file the edge of the bar on the nose. I am going to try that!

Thank you for your replies everyone!


Al_Smith

That bar is obviously made of very soft steel .On a normal hardened tipped plain nose bar it would take years to wear one out that bad.

Ianab

Also, when you clean out the bar groove, take the bar off and check the little hole that carries oil from the saw and into the groove. It can get plugged up with compacted dust, and then the bar doesn't get enough oil, and then the bar wears out really quick. Get a piece of fine wire and make sure the hole is clear.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

thecfarm

Woodwood,welcome to the forum.
Not that I can help,but how many bars have worn out on this saw?
And how long do they last? I was going to ask how many times you fill the gas tank up,but have to ask how many times you fill the oil tank?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

John Mc

I think others have hit it here. It's either:

  • not enough lubrication on the bar
  • Chain too tight
  • Bar tip is soft metal (or possibly it started out hard, but got overheated due to lack of lubrication, destroying the temper of the steel

Keeping the chain sharp will also be easier on your equipment, and should help the bar last longer.

As others have mentioned, check to make sure the little hole that allows oil onto the bar is open. You should also check that it is properly oiling before you begin to cut. I usually hold the tip of the bar pointed at a log and run the saw a bit. You should see a stripe of oil appear on the log as it gets thrown off the chain on the way around the the tip of the bar. If you don;t see the oil getting thrown off, stop and find out what is wrong. Check to make sure you have not run out of oil when cutting. On a gas saw, the tanks are usually sized so that you run out of gas before you run out of oil. On an electric saw, you just have to remember to stop and check. (It could be that running out of oil is what caused your bar to wear in the first place.)

A belt sander works great for dressing the bar to remove burs and fins. Oregon (as well as other companies) also makes a Bar Rail Dresser which is just a file in a holder that helps you keep the file perpendicular to the bar. I find it very handy.

I'm not sure if the tip of your bar may be too far gone to recover. If you have to file it down too far, the drive links on the chain start scraping the bottom of the groove in the bar, and the chain no longer rides properly on the bar. If you do hae to replace the bar, I'd think about replacing the chain also. There is a chance that the uneven wear on the bar has also worn the underside of the chain unevenly. The bad fit between the chain and bar can cause problems with lubrication even if the oil is getting out onto the bar. You'd hate to trash a brand new bar because your chain was messed up.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Woodwood

Quote from: Al_Smith on May 03, 2016, 05:18:15 AM
That bar is obviously made of very soft steel .On a normal hardened tipped plain nose bar it would take years to wear one out that bad.

Okay, maybe I should buy myself a hard nose bar next time then... Thanks.

Quote from: Ianab on May 03, 2016, 06:07:16 AM
Also, when you clean out the bar groove, take the bar off and check the little hole that carries oil from the saw and into the groove. It can get plugged up with compacted dust, and then the bar doesn't get enough oil, and then the bar wears out really quick. Get a piece of fine wire and make sure the hole is clear.

Found some old dirt in the bar groove, and also found the hole. Used a compressor to clean things out. I think maybe it is getting more oil now.

Quote from: thecfarm on May 03, 2016, 06:34:58 AM
Woodwood,welcome to the forum.
Not that I can help,but how many bars have worn out on this saw?
And how long do they last? I was going to ask how many times you fill the gas tank up,but have to ask how many times you fill the oil tank?

Thanks :-)

I am filling the tank when oil level is in the middle, or sometimes when it hits "minimum". A few times I did forget it, and I think it ran out of oil, but then it was for a short time - maybe I should be more careful about it in the future though. I have worn out 2 bars in around 8 months. The first one "lasted" for maybe 7 months, but maybe I actually used it for too long without fixing it (as shown on my first picture...). Yesterday I grindet both bars with a bench grinder. One of them seems to work okay now. The other one BROKE after using it for 10 minutes... I don't think it has to do with the grinding, as I did it very gentle. I am starting to think this bar is of bad quality - this is what happened:



Yaiks.

Quote from: John Mc on May 03, 2016, 10:10:02 AM

John Mc, thanks for your many useful tips. I will try the oil-check on a log. For filing the bar down, I think it worked quite well with my bench grinder actually, so I am gonna stick with that for now. I will put a new chain on my next bar, so I don't mess it up. And sharpen the chain more often - only did it after every 4-8 hours of use. Maybe I should do it every second hour or so...

Thanks everyone!


John Mc

You want a smooth finish on the rails when you are done. I'm not cure if a bench grinder will do that. You might want to touch it up with a file or something after grinding to polish things up a bit. Also, make sure you are filing/grinding square to the bar. If you are off just a little bit and one rail ends up higher than the other, the saw will try to cut in circles, and will continue to wear unevenly.

Good luck with it.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Hilltop366

Yes, keep your chain sharp, it does not matter how much time you have cutting as long as it is sharp.

Sometimes I can dull my chain on the first cut, there is no point in continuing on with a dull chain.

Cedar Eater

You might want to look for a sprocket nosed bar. They cost more, but offer less friction and less wear on the straps of the chain.
Cedar Eater

John Mc

Quote from: Woodwood on May 04, 2016, 03:08:05 AM
And sharpen the chain more often - only did it after every 4-8 hours of use. Maybe I should do it every second hour or so...

How long a chain stays sharp is not necessarily a function of the hours of use. If you are cutting wood with dirt stuck to the bark, the chain will dull quickly. Likewise, if you even nick the ground with a running chain, the chain needs to be sharpened. A properly sharpened chain should feed itself into the wood. If it's not feeding, or if you have to put pressure on it to make it cut, your chain needs sharpening. In fact, if you have to put pressure on it, you are past the point where it needed to be sharpened.

The guy who taught me how to use a chainsaw and sharpen one properly used to say: "You don't sharpen a chain because it got dull, you sharpen it to keep it from getting dull." If you take that approach to chain sharpening, your chains will last longer, your bars will last longer, and YOU will last longer: it's a lot easier on the operator as well as on the equipment.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

The OP said he was cutting pallets .Those things could contain any number of things,dirt,metal shavings you name it .

If he was using the bar tip that would  explain why it's in such a sorry shape .

CTYank

IMO that saw doesn't look like the best tool for the job, by a long shot. Not too many chainsaw bars sold nowadays without sprocket-noses, for good reason.

IME a saber-saw, aka "sawzall" is a much better tool, and yes, no matter what you do you are going to hit some metal, and likely dirt. A basic demolition blade can handle it, and is cheap to replace. Just noisy. I've been known to bust up a few skids for kindling and wouldn't think of using a chainsaw for that. The wood is too dry and it's way too easy to have only one or two cutters making contact. Not good. Dangerous.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

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