how to make a fair deal?

[Engineer]

I am working with a land developer, doing septic designs for house lots in a subdivision.  He owns the lots he builds on, and then either builds a spec house or has a buyer lined up for the new house.  Mostly all log cabins and homes.

Anyway, all of the lots have one to several decent large trees that would produce a sawlog or two.  Didn't think anything of it until the one lot we were doing yesterday had a 30" dbh cherry, clear for 30' up, sitting smack in the middle of the house site.  I told him I wanted the tree, he didn't think I was serious.  Now I have to figure what some of this stuff is worth if I have to go cut it down, load the logs and saw it, or maybe just bring the mill to the tree.  There's a fair bit of smaller cherry, as well as sugar maple, beech, spruce, hemlock and the occasional large yellow birch or white ash.    I definitely want to offer to trade for the sawlogs (and the firewood) but don't want to insult him and don't want to stick it to myself either.  

How would any of you approach this?  Any guides to value?  I'd really like to think I could get five or ten thousand board feet of veneer-grade logs out of his lots in the next two to three years.  Not much, but it will sure keep my shop well stocked.

[DanG]

I'd just ask him what he plans to do with them. Chances are, he's just gonna hire someone to haul them to the dump. If that's the case, he'd be glad to let you haul them away for free. ;D  If he's planning to sell them, you might get a chance to bid on them.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Had this same discussion a few months ago with an ausie with the same situation
basically who does he sell them to now that you have to out bid, and buying logs on the stump is much different than offa log truck.........is he planning on paying someone to remove em regardless.......I would not get to excited about an offer, rather ask him what he wants for as is.you doin the favor of removal........I never pay much for these kinda deals, they are generally headed for a dozer and burn pile.... ;)

[beenthere]

If you get them for 'removal', I'd go with someone else's suggestion, and mill them 'off site'. Soon as someone sees the lumber coming from these logs, they'll get all excited about the deal you made, and think they should be paid more. I don't think its unfair for you to get the trees at 'his' cost of removal (which may be a payment to you to remove).

I got into a deal like that once, back in '64. A road was bulldozed for house lots through a timbered 100 acres, and the trees pushed into huge piles along the new road. I inquired about yumming the piles and they said go ahead. I talked my hunting partner (who had a small mill and lots of sawing experience) into looking at the piles, and he thought we might be able to get a truckload out, of 8'+ logs. We worked a couple weeks every spare minute, and trucked out over 10k bd ft    Lots of work digging them out of the dirt, but resulted in sawing out 65% clear (yes - clear) 4/4 boards, most being red oak with a few white oak logs. This friend had the equipment, and he charged me 1/2 for logging, hauling, and sawing, and we split the other half between us. I had enough to trim, floor, panel, and jamb a complete 1400 sq ft house in red oak from that 'deal'.  
Good luck makin' a deal.

[rebocardo]

I would see if he just pays to have someone come in and chop and dump them. I know someone who builds houses, he just cuts the trees, dumps them into a 40 foot dumpster with a bobcat, and away they go to the landfill. All he cares about is clearing the lot. I was thinking about trying to grab some, but, the biggest thing is speed and not delaying the building.

[Jeff]

You see that a lot here, lot clearing is usually a hurry up and get it done deal. Most of the time the lot owner has to trade the wood in exchange for rapid removal.

[Ron Wenrich]

We have guys who clear the land before the developers go nuts.  They get big bucks to clear it, and keep the timber.  But, they also have to remove the stumps.

Most of these guys have a whole tree chipper.  The one also makes mulch by putting the chips through a hog.  

I don't particularly care for trees from land clearers.  They usually have trash metal in them.

[etat]

Around here they mostly get piled up to one side and burned.    Or pushed off the side of the lot and buried. Sometimes they go to the landfill.  All they're thinking of is fast removal.  If you could move em ahead of time you'd probably be doing em a service.  In that case if it was me I wouldn't feel guilty about removing them fast, or after hours, as a service to the guy clearing the lot. I see lots of logs laying around in the edge of the woods around houses.  If I had a mill and they were fairly easy to get out and if I had the time I'd offer to recover, and remove the logs.  Considering dirt, and possible metal in em I wouldn't want to pay much for em, if anything.  No need of feeling guilty about that.

[Larry]

I have heard more than once that pushing over a tree is a lot easier and faster than digging out a stump.  I'm not a dozer operator so don't know if the statement is valid or not.  What do you guys think that operate a dozer and how would you counter the statement if interested in the trees?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  From having had a dozer for 3 years, I believe that trees pushed out in the wetter part of the year are MUCH easier than during dryer times. I have broken off quite a few that should have pushed over, stump and all. Digging stumps is hardly ever better than pushing stumps with tree attached. You need a place for the whole tree to go, but, it's still easier.

  Once the tree is cut from the stump, the stump is harder to "steer" to a pile, unless you are AT the pile cutting them. Also, rolling trees to the pile shakes the dirt out and makes for a better burn, usually.

  I would bet the liability issue is why most trees are just pushed and burned. Time would be the second issue, in our area. I tried talking to developers. They just don't want to mess with you.

[Furby]

The only thing that gets burned on the lot around here are stumps and tops if there isn't a chipper. Logs are either going to a mill or something, or are sold to firewood buyers.
I still have a huge pile at a land clearing that I'm trying to get permission to take, even though I don't feel like hauling them. : They have been burning the stumps and tops ALL summer, then they turned around and started cutting more.

[hillbilly]

                     AHH,
                      This whole little subject is why I bought a mill in the first place.I've been working road const. for several years now when I first started I was pretty young but I had been raised around block mills during the summer time while not in school, but on my first job as a laborer I probably BURNED 20000 bdft of really good saw logs .I could'nt beleive it when they told me to light that pile up it almost made me sick.
            several years later I bought a mill  ;) I've gotten afew good deals here and there but most of the time on big jobs they don't have time to mess with you ,time is money big money .
                  I would at least aks what he was going to do with them and then work from there, if they push it out with a dozer it would help if you were on hand to cut it from the stump and the top while there dozer man is still there so they don't have to pay him to come back and roll the top and stump into a pile later .
                     hillbilly

[Engineer]

Well, I have a trailer and am soon getting a mini-excavator with thumb, so I can pick up most any sawlog that I can get my hands on.  I think that he'll want to get at least a few $$ for the logs, because most of the excavators in the area dabble in logging and will take stuff like that themselves.  

There is usually no slash-and-burn.  Most everything that gets cut on a lot, down to about 6" dia., gets pushed over, stumps and tops cut off, and the wood brought out as pulp or firewood.  The tops and stumps are either buried or burned.  A 30" cherry log sure wouldn't go into anyones burn pile.

I also constantly scrounge for firewood as well, so the deal I'll try to make is that I take everything bigger than 3" dia. and cut the stump flush.  The site is 30 miles away but three or four trips oughta get everything worth taking on any given lot.

[Norm]

Larry pushing over full length trees is easier than grubbing out a stump but a dozer is much harder to do it with than an excavator. Dozers tend to break or shear em off while with the hoe you can dig them out first, reach up high in the trunk and push. No matter what you use a stump is harder to get out than a tree as you don't have the leverage. Why not let them push them over cut off the sawlog and push the stump, I find the stump righted back up isn't too bad to push with the dozer, not as easy as full length thou.

[Gary_B]

It seems like if you ask about a log, with the attention of using it for firewood, theres no problem, but as soon as you mention milling it, there ears perk up, and dollar signs in the eyes

[SwampDonkey]

Most efficient method is using the escavator. Its as slick as snot to stump with an escavator and your gonna have to either bury or load the stumps into a dump truck anyway. Building roads and stumping with an escavator builds the best roads too. Trying to build roads with dozers ends up making a wet road with mounds of dirt to the sides and almost no ditching. Famalnd here is stumped by escavators with a rake like thing on the end or a thumb. Shake the root mass, throw into piles or windrows and rework the piles later when the piles dry some, then lighter on fire. They used to push everything to the field edge with dozers to rot, but you lost acreage and made a terrible mess of the woods edge. Plus trying to burn the piles next to the woods was a forest fire risk and pretty much forbidden now by law. With a permit, you still have to be 100 meters from the woods.