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Advice on dropping this tree

Started by schmalts, April 17, 2016, 08:02:34 PM

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schmalts

22 inch diameter, northern red oak. Would you consider this lean severe or moderate?  Regardless it may be a veneer grade and I would like to hear from the pros how to drop it without losing the value. The usual steep wedge and plunge through behind to form the hinge and then continue out the opposite of lean? If so how thick of a hinge? The last one I did like this cracked probably left the hinge too wide. Trying to get photo up..bear with me

CCC4

If it was me...I would cut in the kerf past the heart if the tree would allow me, put a conventional...fairly steep but not deep, bore the heart out from the face and let her rip. No fiber pull, low stump...not loss in value.

schmalts

Not familiar with the term kerf, except in saw blade width term.

treeslayer2003

gut the heart leaving a post on each side. matching cuts of course on the face, humbolt or conventional, don't matter.
i'd rather back cut a leaner, but thats just me. gut it either way.

CCC4

Quote from: schmalts on April 17, 2016, 09:27:51 PM
Not familiar with the term kerf, except in saw blade width term.

My apollogies, you are correct, I use the term "kerf" in sawmilling as the thickness of the wood removed by the blade. I use the term "kerf" in falling as a cut. The deep kerf I was referring to in this post should be called the initial cut I guess, I just call it a kerf.

Gary_C

I can't even imagine that tree being graded as a veneer. It's going to have an off center pith and a lot of stress because of the lean.

That being said, if you want to get it on the ground without doing damage to the wood, you need to see what's above too. there may be a better way by falling it perpendicular to the lean if it will not hang up. If it were me, I'd look hard at falling perpendicular to the lean and keep a good hinge to keep it falling in the best direction.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

John Mc

Schmalts -

Assuming you are dropping it more-or-less in the direction of lean, I would do exactly as you were describing (if I followed your description correctly): cut an open-faced notch (open enough that it will not close as the tree falls, deep enough that the hinge length is at least 80% of the DBH). Bore cut behind and parallel to the notch and set your hinge thickness. Bore towards the back of the tree, leaving a holding strap, which you cut when you are ready for the tree to drop. If you had problems with this technique in the past, it's likely due to leaving the hinge too thick.

Hinge thickness should be about 10% of DBH (diameter at breast height), so if this is really 22" tree, you'd use about a 2" thick hinge. Hinge length would be about 18" (minimum 80% of DBH). Remember that these are a % of DBH, NOT the diameter down low on the stump where you are cutting.

This is basically a textbook situation for the technique taught in Game of Logging. The advantage is that it lets you set the hinge thickness exactly where you want it before the tree starts moving, minimizing the chance of splitting or barber chairing on you. (Splitting or barberchair is more of an issue if you start cutting in from the back, and the tree starts dropping before you've gotten your hinge where you need it to be. There are ways of dealing with that, as others have noted, but I find bore-cutting to set the hinge easier, and it lets you work the tree more at your own pace.

If you are still concerned about splitting, you could make the hinge a bit thinner, but I've not had problems following the 10% rule of thumb (with the possible exception of white ash with a lot of forward lean). If you've got a lot of side lean, you don;t want to go too think and risk having it break early, losing the "steering" on the way down. You could also bore out some of the center of the hinge, but I've rarely found it necessary if the tree is sound and I've got the hinge thickness right.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ed_K

Took some picts of a leaner I cut to day. It's close to the property line with top heavy over the line.


 
Next 4 picts are each cut.


 


 


 


 
Last 2 are after release & how it landed. It's not pretty but works.


 


 
It rolled 180 degs on the way down and landed with the crotch flat.
Ed K

lynde37avery

bore cut if from the sides leaving a small back hinge
Detroit WHAT?

RHP Logging

In order to cut the tree properly you need to understand the tree.  Bore cut here, nip this there, percentage of hinge, etc, means nothing if you don't realize what it is that you are doing.  First you must understand your compression wood and tension wood.  When and where you remove them is what save the tree and you from total annihilation. 
Buckin in the woods

treeslayer2003

Quote from: Ed_K on April 19, 2016, 08:12:54 PM
Took some picts of a leaner I cut to day. It's close to the property line with top heavy over the line.


 
Next 4 picts are each cut.


 


 


 


 
Last 2 are after release & how it landed. It's not pretty but works.


 


 
It rolled 180 degs on the way down and landed with the crotch flat.
Ed the only thing i don't get there is why you nipped the sides. that what i use for control when i gut.

grassfed

I always "nip" the sides on bigger trees too. If you cut the bark off and flatten the outer edges of the hinge it really helps prevent splitting up from the hinge on the outside of the tree.
Mike

treeslayer2003

Quote from: grassfed on April 20, 2016, 06:16:14 PM
I always "nip" the sides on bigger trees too. If you cut the bark off and flatten the outer edges of the hinge it really helps prevent splitting up from the hinge on the outside of the tree.
i have never had that happen on any thing. but i do probably make a deeper face than most of you guys.

schmalts

Quote from: RHP Logging on April 19, 2016, 09:38:57 PM
In order to cut the tree properly you need to understand the tree.  Bore cut here, nip this there, percentage of hinge, etc, means nothing if you don't realize what it is that you are doing.  First you must understand your compression wood and tension wood.  When and where you remove them is what save the tree and you from total annihilation.
Understanding the compression and tension wood is easy, at least for me. It's making the cuts without F'in up the tree that is more a worry. I have a tendency to leave too big of a hinge most of the time.

Ed_K

 I nip the edges for reasons Grassfed mentioned. I cut a hickory once and didn't clip the sides and as it fell it pulled the bark up till it split the log, there is an awful lot of stress in hickory tho.
Ed K

David-L

Nip, cut your notch, bore the center out and start on the heavy side and work around leaving a trigger and the come from the light side then lastly cut the trigger. You might notice that once the tree is on the ground and in the pile it could check very quickly do to the tension in the tree from growing at an angle. Be safe and wear your Safety gear.
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

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