Buzz asks: How to build a skidder?

[Buzz-sawyer]

I have been collecting stuff to build this thing and may actually end up doing it. 8) 8)
Anybody interested in this kind of project? ???

I am planning on using 2 ,2 way cylinders to articulate with a single lever/joy stick

The wheels are off f gleaner combine so 28" (I think) i am cutting out the chevy truck rims and welding them into the combine steel.....the two ton rear ends are 2 speed types off 1968 chevy grain trucks, I will look around the net for ratios. Does anyone happen to know off hand??

I have several gas and diesel motors to power the pump...I am a little unclear on calculating what would be needed in a pump to power this rig.............I also want to use the hydaulic power to break(slow)

[sprucebunny]

What's going to drive the wheels? Four wheel drive?

[Buzz-sawyer]

The components are 1) 2 chevy 2 ton truck frames and rear ends

                              2)  4 combine tires bought at auction

                                3) 2 hydraulic motors to direct drive rear  

                                     ends/ provide breaking

                                 4)international diesel power plant

                                  5) large hydraulic pump

Now , what do ya think, what do I need as far as drive motors and the primary pump?

I would rather under power the rear ends so I bog before a breaking point.....

[J_T]

Buzz thare is a book out on homade equepment .I forget the name of it . I beleive those 20' wheels will weld right in. Had though of using a hydro rear from an old combine and run it with a pump.Also though of an old 4x4 two ton truck then weld those rims on it and bend it in the center.I know a man put a control like you said on his factory skidder as their parts were to high . 8) If I had enough parts I would done built one.

[J_T]

Buzz my neighbor has some hyd pumps . Don't know how big they are one has a 20hp 3ph motor on it he also has hyd tanks too.I would put a pressure by pass on them motors or give it a study at least.

[Buzz-sawyer]

JT ...................Man I need that Dang name........ ;)
I have heard a few people mention all the good ideas in farm show magazine???
I need to get the hydraulic sizing right on this beast

[Paschale]

Hey Buzz,

You ever heard of Junk Yard Wars on the Discovery Channel?  That's a very cool show--I think you'd fit right in there!   ;)  You've got more ambition than me!

Let us know how she turns out...

[sprucebunny]

It's a good thing I don't know how to weld.I'd have a yard full of contraptions instead of a yard full of beat trucks. I've thought about hydraulic drive things alot but don't know much.
How do you drive a regular rear end with hydraulics? The opposite of a PTO?

[Buzz-sawyer]

Spruce
It is really simple, a hydraulic ( :)high torque/low speed) motor has a shaft comming out and you simply hook it to the input shaft of the read end.....

[slowzuki]

www.machinebuilders.net is a good place for info!

[Buzz-sawyer]

I think so too zuki....... Actually,
they are, as to project building, as forestry forum is to milling...the best on entire net  8) 8)
And I need all the help I can get.... ;)

[redpowerd]

id like to make something like that, but a bit smaller. like with 1ton x's and a 4cyl contenental, i dont need it to tow a large amout of large logs, just a small amount, plus i have a pair of corperate 14 bolts laying around doing nothing. hydraulic is a very wise idear, brakes, steering, and drive all in one. kinda. how big is the pump and the motors, has that been established yet?
why are you using such big x's?

[Bruce_A]

Slowzuki; you have to have a streak of pure meanness or you are nuts.  I can't get enough sleep now trying to read all the neat stuff on this forum and then you have to add another to my favorites list.  Industrial hydraulics manual by Vickers may give you the specs you need for your motors and pump.  All else fails, find someone junking an old excavator for pumps and drive motors and good luck.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Buzz, yer NUTZ. Absolute, bony fied NUTZ.  My kinda guy  ;D ;D ;D

  Good thing we don't live near each other. Between us, we would probably revolutionize somebodys Industry.  ;) ;) :D :D :D

[Buzz-sawyer]

Did i mention its methane powered ;)

[karl]

I usta own a Ford 9030 Bidirectional tractor that was built a lot like you are designing. It had one (big) pump and hydrostatic drive to regular X's. don't have the manual anymore either, but maybe a tractor mechanic  could find the info.
Tires on the beast were 16.9-28, no clue as to the ratio.
It was 105Hp but you wouldn't need more than 60 I wouldn't think.
Seems like I 'member Surplus Center catalog having formulas for HP,pumps,and motors. They've gotta website.

Good Luck with  the Buzzskidda

[Buzz-sawyer]

Karl
Do you recall what kinda center pivot that ford had? :

[

[Buzz-sawyer]

Redpower
I have a set of 1 ton axels, but they look like tooth picks......I figure asking automotive equipment to do this kinda work it is best to over size......also I want some weight to it so it can work(push) with a blade

[Murf]

Buzz, get the BIG truck warmed up.......

Sitting in the yard is not just the log loader, but what's left of a mid-sized excavator, no motor, but the pump, bell housing and drive motors are all there.

Should I just work you out a price by the ton ??   :D

[Buzz-sawyer]

I like tonnage pricing. ;).He who has the biggest PILE wins

[Murf]

I thought it was he who has the biggest pile STANDS UP  :D

[karl]

Buzz-
Pivot was like two big ole hinges(big- maybe 2" thick plates with a 1 1/2-2" pin through) one above the driveshaft/pto shafts and one below.
The front and rear frames were only able to pivot side to side- the rear axle was hung on a pivot to allow tires to follow the terrain. you could jack one wheel up prob'ly 10-12 inches. There were many times that there were only 3 tires on the ground. really should have more twistability for a skidder.
It had locking diff's- I would much rather be able to brake one wheel on each X to aid control on side hills and turns- taken a couple of interesting sideways rides with all four turning. It can get real frustrating when all you can do is go back and forth in the same ruts, or further down the hill.

[theonlybull]

buzz, what's the hp rating on the motor your gonna use?  
say it's 70 hp, i would look at about a 50 gallon variable displacement pump, to run 2 motors that require 25 gallons each.  make sure the pumps a through shaft pump, or has a  charge pump on it to run your steering cyl, blade, and i assume a hyd winch.  

the varriable pump, although more expensive, will give you much better control.  this will have to be a closed system, with case drains going back to your resivour, and make up oil supplied by the charge pump.  you should be able to put inline pressure relief's that will prevent you from damaging the machine.  these are adjustable, and are much more reliable then "bogging" the motor.

i think our skidder is steered with one 3" cylinder.

as for piviot. you'll wan 2 ears on one half, and 4 on the other. this will give you a good tight center, that will last a long time.
as for articulation. i would simply put a couple ears on top of the rearend, and run a pair of tubes to the front of the machine with another set of ears.  then plate this area in to give you a good skid plate.  i think you can see  what we have in the pics of our machine.

i caution who ever plans to use 1 ton truck axles, i think you will find them way too weak for forrestry use, unless your only gonna use the 16" wheels and truck tires, which won't work very good in the woods.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Hey thanks for da input
I would like to use a little diesel (perkins) 4 banger.
If I was to gear it down through two trannys it would do the stuff......but I am not sure if it will cut the mustard with 50 gpm hydro pump????

     You said  ,"the varriable pump, although more expensive, will give you much better control.  this will have to be a closed system, with case drains going back to your resivour, and make up oil supplied by the charge pump.  you should be able to put inline pressure relief's that will prevent you from damaging the machine.  these are adjustable, and are much more reliable then "bogging" the motor"


5.44 CU IN EATON VARIABLE HYDROSTATIC PUMP

     I find this interesting, I am un educated in the variable pump, and motive power applications.......so this is good food for thought. ;)


as for piviot. you'll wan 2 ears on one half, and 4 on the other. this will give you a good tight center, that will last a long time
Do ya have a pic of this.. ???

 ???

[Buzz-sawyer]

Ifound this.......25 gpm reversible motor

15.36 cu in DANFOSS 151B2082 HYD MOTOR

[theonlybull]

i don't have any pics buzz, but i'll see if i can grab some tomorrow at work.

basically, a rule of thumb is, 1 gallon of flow, for 1 hp.  now you'll have to save some for your other cylinders, and you'll only get half the flow for each axle.   you'll have to size your pump to your engine, and your motor's to your pump.  don't forget to alow a little for loss, hyd, is rather inefficent.

i'm no hyd expert, but i'll give ya what i can.

[KENROD]

I'm new around here, but here's my two cents whorth. Find a farm machinery junk jard and ask if they have a hydo. pump off a combine that is the right size 'still working good of course'. Most combines are hydrostatic drive. Better yet, find an old 4X4 combine and retrofit. It won't be articulating, but they can turn in there own tracks. ;D

[Buzz-sawyer]

hey KENROD
I would like to find on at an auction sale and glean the diesel engine and hydraulic pump of it......anyone know if they  (OLDER) (cheap and abundant at farm sales)
1) put out anyting like 25 gpm?
2) are directly hooked to hydro pump
they have hyd steering, and I bet other hyd functions........

[Buzz-sawyer]

Another home build...........

[ScottAR]

Lord help the operator if the cable ever breaks....  

[Murf]

Scott, me thinks it would be more like.......
 
Operator, meet Lord, Lord, meet Operator.  

[SwampDonkey]

Just get an old tree farmer for $1500 and be done with it. ;) I'de like to see your 'beast' in operation, I think it would be fun to tinker at that stuff weather it works or not. This thread is interesting.

By the way Buzz, don't ask me to sit in that home made skidder when winch'n your 40 inch oak logs. I'll watch from a safe distance. ;)  Look out rock piles, ditches and gullies, here I come. :D :D


Reminds me of the old timer my grandfather talked about that haywired everything together as fast as grandfather broke it up over ledge knols and rock outcrops. Some folks get themselves into aweful scrapes. :D

[Buzz-sawyer]

Hey farmers and junk lovers.....I need a bit of info on combines it has been suggested to me several times to consider using combine hydrostatic drives...would it be suitable to use two of them to build my machine, if  so what size brand would work ???

[J_T]

Hey Buzz I think most those bull gear units were made by a couple Co  just need to make the ratio of front and rear the same As in differnt size tires on front as on rear.If nessary 8)

[Sawyerfortyish]

Hey Buzz do you just like building stuff out of your junk pile or what ?  By the time you get all the parts put in all the time to build it you will have more in it than you could buy a old used one for. I bought an old 230 Timberjack 15 yrs ago for 8000$ and am still using it a lot. But if you want to tinker around I would try to get plantariy rears from a army truck or front end loader. That will gear you down for power. As for hydraulic power my timberjack has a small pump to work one steering cylinder the two cylinders on the blade and the winch. A big pump is not needed.

[Buzz-sawyer]

I do enjoy building, and engineering things, and sometimes they even work, and make me money (MY circle mill)
I also enjoy building on a budget, I make DanG look like a high roller... :D :D
I will invest no more than $1000 in this project if I use hydr.  drive,  :P
otherwise I might spend couple of hundred for rods, and bolts etc. I have ALL I need to build it direct drive for essentially free..
thats kind a the goal...use what ya got to build something cool and useful

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I say, quit foolin around and just GO FOR IT  8) ;)

[mhasel]

Buzz,

Check out this site and order up a subscription it is well worth the money and you will get plenty of ideas.

http://www.farmshow.com/

Also check out http://www.surpluscenter.com they have a welth of charts and formulas to help you figure everything out or at least come close:)

Good luck and I hope to see the finsished project!!

Mike

[woodbowl]

OK Buzz, what's the story on yer skidder? It ort ta be finished by now.  :

[leweee]

Buzz....found you a parts source.....check out this thread. ;D
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=24108.0

[Coon]

Hey there buzz,

Go look in my gallery.  There is a hydraulic system off a Massey Ferguson 410 Combine in there.  This is the pump I will be using on Critter.  Those combines are hydrostatic and have sizeable enough pumps for your needs.  If you get one off a combine you should be able to get the resevoir, pump, and 3 bank contorl valve set up at a decent price.  You would definately need a larger resevoir that what I have got but you could use the filter and line setup's on your own tank.  The control valves are currently set up as 2- 1way and 1-2way but there is the option of changing over one of the oneway circuits via a plug.  If you want more info let me know as these systems are as common as flies on a gut pile in the summertime, around here. :D

[KGNC]

Buzz, If you want to do this but don't want to spring for the variable displacement pump you might consider this set:
Have one set of wheels direct drive through a transmission or what every you have laying around. Have a hydraulic pump on the output of the transmission, between the transmission and the rearend. This pump will will drive the motor on the other wheels. As the speed of the direct drive wheels increase the pump will run faster and drive the other wheels faster. Of course you will need to make sure that you are pumping enough flow so you are not just dragging the hydraulic wheels. You will need to use a larger displacement pump since it will be turning slower or gear up the speed of a smaller pump.
You will want a 2nd pump on the engine for steering and your winch.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Buzz....found you a parts source.....check out this thread. ;D
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=24108.0

Sadly, I have been to spitting distance of the holy land you speak off....but was only able to get a look at Dangs portable solar kiln....... :'( :'( :'( :'(

[woodbowl]

OK ........ now what about that skidder yer building?    8)

[Corley5]

Did I mention the piles of Rockwell top loader axles at Hooties and the winches of all sizes and the engines of all sizes and the.... ;) ;D ;D

[woodbowl]

I know how it is with stalled projects and all, I've got a hunderd of em.  :-\

Look at what this guy is doing. He's building a homemade, 4WD, hydraulically driven,  articulating tractor.  He's gooood!  http://www.weekendfreedommachines.org/discus/messages/17/63457.html?1110213280

[twobears]

your not kidding that young man did a heck of a job building it...i just found that tractor and i can,t stop thinking about it or reading about it .i can see a bigger tractor like that with a winch on the back in my future,  ;D

delbert

[Swede]

I´ve been looking at a rear end from a 6x6 truck from the army to build a logging trailer. Think it would work good after a tractor with what we call "halvband". The trailer also needs "halvband" and a knuckleboom with grapple. I just need some time to take this out of my head and into the woods  ;D

http://user.tninet.se/~irs543h/volvobm/400band.html
http://user.tninet.se/~irs543h/volvobm/bandare.html
http://www.fergusonklubben.se/abild40.html

The first "Halvband" was made 1952 at ÖSA, Österbergs Fabriks AB in Alfta. First out was an old truck, the owner forsed the veihcle up to 80 km/h! The first tractor to get Halvband was a Bolinder Munktell BM-10 and after that they were put on a lot of other brands, Oliver, Deutz, Ferguson. 20 set of halvband was also sent to Canada for mounting on Oliver tractors.

http://home.swipnet.se/Halvbandet/Skogsbrukets%20mekanisering/osa/osa.htm
http://home.swipnet.se/Halvbandet/Skogsbrukets%20mekanisering/osa/negercykel1.htm
http://home.swipnet.se/Halvbandet/Skogsbrukets%20mekanisering/osa/bamse/bmb_230_bamse.htm
http://home.swipnet.se/Halvbandet/Skogsbrukets%20mekanisering/osa/osa260/osa_260_skotare.htm

Swede

[sprucebunny]

Great links, Swede !!!! Thanks 

[isawlogs]

 Swede , my dad bought a set of those halftracks , not really sure if it was from this compagnie or not ... way back in the fall of '54 or '55 . They where put on a Massey 2085 , just like the one on one of your links. Dads did have headlights though ...
  We still have that tractor at home , I dont think that there is one kid that came to the farm that did not learn to drive on that tractor ....

    Thanks for the link ... I sent my dad a copie ... I am sure he will go look at that some ...

  It will bring some memories back ...  he hauled pin with that tractor a whole winter across a lake ... Coldess winter he ever remembers ever having ...So cold he sometimes put the tractor in first gear .. pull the manual throdle .. and jumped off and ran beside the tractor to warm up . He had ordered the cab at the same time ... it arrived in the spring ... after he had finished hauling the wood .