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LT-28 mod the hand crank

Started by ScottInCabot, April 15, 2016, 02:23:17 PM

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ScottInCabot

This will be my ongoing 'mod-to-mill' topic. 
I will try to take as many photo's as necessary to illustrate what I'm attempting to do. 
What am I doing?  Simple.....I'm going to replace the two-speed 3,500lb hand crank on the LT-28 with a comprable size 12v Warn Terra 3,500lb winch.  I'll just use an extra 12v battery(I have a couple in the garage not doing much), and maybe even a solar charging station to give the battery a charge between uses in the field, to power it.
Why am I doing this?  Simple also.....second back surgery gives me one of two choices, Number one....sell the mill and be fat and old(er), number two....mod what I can mod to make this mill 'work for me'.  Guess which Imma pickin'?  That's right, daddy didn't raise a wuss....I want to mill logs!

Let's get started!

By taking a 9/16th box end wrench, the five bolts holding the hand crank come right off.  These are self locking nuts, so once they have been used, I'll try not to re-use them somewhere that I wouldn't want them to vibrant off from....put those on the list(5 new bolts, washers, and locking washers).

Here is the hand winch, hardly even scratched!  I did notice the second time I lifted the direction 'tab', that one side just snapped off....little weird that it would do that after two minutes.


I'll be un-spolling the winch line on here to use on the Warn 3,500lb 12v winch, as it's the same size, still about new, and I don't have to do anything with the hook that is already on the other end.  Yes, I could pull the entire length out and take the new cable and snake it all the way back through.....but I'm not gonna.  And I'll save the winch line that comes with the winch for a back-up/replacement....

And you are now left with this. The main plate to bolt the new assembly on.


I made a trip to Jacksonville Steel in Beebe, AR(yeah, I know....what does a name mean anymore) and inquired about purchasing anything that was 6by6 angle.  Asked for 1/2" thickness, sorry we don't have that...have a nice day.  What do you have?  I dunno.  Does anyone know?  Ugh....  Yes, that's pretty much what I thought, customer service....nope, got none.
Few minutes later a fella walks in from the 'yard', so I just ask him.  Sure we have plent of 6by6 angle!  Told him I wanted thicker then 1/4" and thinner then 1/2".....they had 5/16....sold!  I got a foot of it.  {for those thinking too thin...the hand crank bracket just under a tad from being 1/4" thickness, with the paint on it...}

Going to soak it in vinegar and scrape off the 'scale' overnight, and then start drilling holes in it.  Picked 3/8ths inch holes to match up with what is already on the plate that it'll mount too.  Made a template and transferred the markings.  BINGO, first time for everything....the bolts slid in.  Only had to use a chainsaw file a bit on the last one.

Time to wait on that 'Free Shippping'....you know, where you pay for the stuff, and they sit on the order for a week.....then overnight the part.  Yup, that's what is happening.  So I have to wait for the winch to get here to make sure I'll have clearance for the planetary gears under the main frame of the mill before drilling the holes to attach the winch.  If I don't have the room required for clearance, I'll turn the winch 90* and mount it that way.  Even then, I'll have to remove the winch from the mount and have a 'triangle'(for lack of a better word) to brace the lower end of the angle....that will need to be welded in place.

I'll get that photo up as soon as I have it welded, painted and winch mounted!  So stay tuned for more build/modding!



Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

WLC

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.  I've got the same set up and am interested in how your mod turns out.  I may be copying it.
Woodmizer LT28
Branson 4wd tractor
Stihl chainsaws
Elbow grease.

ScottInCabot

By all means, feel free to copy this in anyway you'd like to do.....I'm not one of those "don't-copy-me-folks"...



The winch arrived!  On sale at Amazon for $176-free shipping, of course....nothing is ever free.  So if you want your winch to show up in two days instead of a week and two days, pay the $14!  Two days ago the payment gets 'approved' and the shipment moves....even though the money was removed from my account the day I ordered(I digress)



Little larger then I saw in my mind, but it'll work.  With a pile of wires, I had to sleep on what to do with that mess....I don't much like a mess.  Of course the winch is designed for an ATV(you get 3500lb stuck, don't call me.....I can't help :D :D :D), so there is wiring for a 'handle bar mount', remote handheld controller, a plug for the remote handheld controller that has 12 feet of wire.....and the nuts and bolt package.  The bolts are all zinc something......I am replacing those with grade #8...by the way, they are metric(go figure).



Went to Wally World this morning and found this.  Can't believe the tax in my town is almost 9.85% now....when the crap did that happen?  Anyway, I found something really close to what I was needing...$7.53!  Next size down wouldn't hold the solenoid, next size up would have held the car....
Cheap box!  Opened it up and tossed the 'tray' into the 'some-other-day-I'll-need-it' pile!



Grabbed a piece of 1/4" cedar from the wifes' scrollsaw stack(don't let her know that it came from there).  Drilled a few holes and mounted the solenoid and the wired remote plug.  Shot some small nails into some 1-1/4" thick pieces to hide that mess of wires underneath.





Next thing was to start on the mounting plate of the mounting plate.  I figured I need all five bolts to hold the 6by6 angle to the mill brace, so some 'engineering' is going to happen....about 5/8ths of an inch of engineering!  Need to build up a plate under the mounting plate to allow for the lower bolt to the bracket already on the mill.....no problem, those cheap zinc bolts and washers can do it!

About the time I get started doing anything, I'm reminded of something I had planned 'for me'.....steak night, great.  So this will sit until tomorrow, and maybe the rain will stop long enough to mount the finished winch?



Until next time!

Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

tnaz

Looks like a plan; will return for the finish.

ScottInCabot

Everything is wet and more wet today, so I'll need to hold off another day to get all the pieces and mock-up a final time prior to drilling anymore holes in my angle.  {Anyone else ever notice where you need to work on stuff always has water sitting under it?  Seriously, whole yard is 'eh', but right where I need to be to bolt things up....3" of water standing!}

Day of rest....actually I'm going to go quote to more milling jobs today...but that's like a rest.



Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

Sixacresand

Good idea on the plastic box to store the controls.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

PineHill4488

Scott,
Plenty dry here in NE Ark and I got a Red Oak yesterday that would be a good test for your modification.

Much bigger than my mill will handle.

Let's talk.

Greg
Fall 2013 purchased Stihl MS 660 and an Alaskan 36" mill, am happy with the setup, hobbyist not a volume producer, have milled oak, hickory, yellow pine, and power poles.

outpost22

I was thinking about doing a similar mod. My concern is that when you turn a winch off, it continues to wind down as the motor stops (my Warn 8000 does this). So, to stop the head where you need it (for accurate cutting heights), I'm not sure how you will overcome this winch trait if your winch does the same thing mine does.  If you figure it out, please let us know.  Or if this new winch doesn't have this trait, sign me up for one  :)
Creating one more project one at a time.
Burg Bandsaw Mill
Stihl 010
Stihl 210
Stihl 251
Stihl 461
Husky 350
Kubota L3800

Kbeitz

I use a worm gear winch driven with electric motors from wheelchairs.
They have electric brakes that come on when the power is off.

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ScottInCabot

Quote from: outpost22 on April 17, 2016, 08:37:24 PM
I was thinking about doing a similar mod. My concern is that when you turn a winch off, it continues to wind down as the motor stops (my Warn 8000 does this). So, to stop the head where you need it (for accurate cutting heights), I'm not sure how you will overcome this winch trait if your winch does the same thing mine does.  If you figure it out, please let us know.  Or if this new winch doesn't have this trait, sign me up for one  :)


I am using this winch to pull the logs up the ramps and to turn logs....I'll still be using the hand crank and standard head crank.  Even if it does 'wind down', just means the log will just continue to get closer to the uprights....  And if I'm rolling a log 90*, it'll still be super easy to rock it back against the uprights.  I'm not trying to make a hydraulic mill...just something easier to use with a 50 year old double back surgery 'guy'.  I do not want to give up milling.  There is just something about being the first person to see a huge Butternut crotch sliced open, the figure, the grain structure, and then the customers' eyeballs popping out of their sockets....




The water drained away today, but the clouds are rolling in again.  Forecast shows another 5 days with rain chances above 40% for me(of course, wouldn't have it any other way).  So I may try to take a few 'cross your fingers and lets see what I can get done' tomorrow on the final mock-up.  Then it's just two more holes to drill, clean up the sharp edges, and paint.....wait a few then mount everything.



Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

Magicman

This is an easy fix.  You need a switch with contacts that will close and short the winch motor out in the off position.  This short (properly called a shunt) will provide electric braking and will minimize the "wind down".  This is what WM uses on it's up/down and power feed motors to keep them from coasting to a stop.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Slingshot


    I did a similar mod on an LT30 and used a 3700 Warn Winch. There was no coasting, the Warn 3700 winch stops instantly when the switch control lever is released to neutral. Slight taps bumps the log around as needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNHVKl11SIU

Slingshot


  This video is a little lengthy but the first part shows loading a 28 inch poplar
log off a trailer and then (after repositioning the cable) turning the log into
position....Then turning as I sawed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP4AwzKnx6Y

fishfighter

Quote from: Slingshot on April 18, 2016, 12:02:04 AM

    I did a similar mod on an LT30 and used a 3700 Warn Winch. There was no coasting, the Warn 3700 winch stops instantly when the switch control lever is released to neutral. Slight taps bumps the log around as needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNHVKl11SIU

Wish you had some pictures on how that is put together from the winch to the log turner. Very interesting.

outpost22

Quote from: ScottInCabot on April 17, 2016, 09:01:52 PM
Quote from: outpost22 on April 17, 2016, 08:37:24 PM
I was thinking about doing a similar mod. My concern is that when you turn a winch off, it continues to wind down as the motor stops (my Warn 8000 does this). So, to stop the head where you need it (for accurate cutting heights), I'm not sure how you will overcome this winch trait if your winch does the same thing mine does.  If you figure it out, please let us know.  Or if this new winch doesn't have this trait, sign me up for one  :)


I am using this winch to pull the logs up the ramps and to turn logs....I'll still be using the hand crank and standard head crank.  Even if it does 'wind down', just means the log will just continue to get closer to the uprights....  And if I'm rolling a log 90*, it'll still be super easy to rock it back against the uprights.  I'm not trying to make a hydraulic mill...just something easier to use with a 50 year old double back surgery 'guy'.  I do not want to give up milling.  There is just something about being the first person to see a huge Butternut crotch sliced open, the figure, the grain structure, and then the customers' eyeballs popping out of their sockets....




The water drained away today, but the clouds are rolling in again.  Forecast shows another 5 days with rain chances above 40% for me(of course, wouldn't have it any other way).  So I may try to take a few 'cross your fingers and lets see what I can get done' tomorrow on the final mock-up.  Then it's just two more holes to drill, clean up the sharp edges, and paint.....wait a few then mount everything.



Scott in Cabot

I misread what you were trying to do. Using it as a log loader is a no brainer. I was trying to figure how to use one for moving the power head up and down and retain accuracy. Thanks to MM now I can look into a "shunt".
Creating one more project one at a time.
Burg Bandsaw Mill
Stihl 010
Stihl 210
Stihl 251
Stihl 461
Husky 350
Kubota L3800

ScottInCabot

Quote from: outpost22 on April 18, 2016, 10:26:48 AM
Quote from: ScottInCabot on April 17, 2016, 09:01:52 PM
Quote from: outpost22 on April 17, 2016, 08:37:24 PM
I was thinking about doing a similar mod. My concern is that when you turn a winch off, it continues to wind down as the motor stops (my Warn 8000 does this). So, to stop the head where you need it (for accurate cutting heights), I'm not sure how you will overcome this winch trait if your winch does the same thing mine does.  If you figure it out, please let us know.  Or if this new winch doesn't have this trait, sign me up for one  :)

I am using this winch to pull the logs up the ramps and to turn logs....I'll still be using the hand crank and standard head crank.  Even if it does 'wind down', just means the log will just continue to get closer to the uprights....  And if I'm rolling a log 90*, it'll still be super easy to rock it back against the uprights.  I'm not trying to make a hydraulic mill...just something easier to use with a 50 year old double back surgery 'guy'.  I do not want to give up milling.  There is just something about being the first person to see a huge Butternut crotch sliced open, the figure, the grain structure, and then the customers' eyeballs popping out of their sockets....




The water drained away today, but the clouds are rolling in again.  Forecast shows another 5 days with rain chances above 40% for me(of course, wouldn't have it any other way).  So I may try to take a few 'cross your fingers and lets see what I can get done' tomorrow on the final mock-up.  Then it's just two more holes to drill, clean up the sharp edges, and paint.....wait a few then mount everything.



Scott in Cabot

I misread what you were trying to do. Using it as a log loader is a no brainer. I was trying to figure how to use one for moving the power head up and down and retain accuracy. Thanks to MM now I can look into a "shunt".



Thanks, I think?  "No brainer....ah, okay".....  I guess since everyone knows exactly how to do this, I'm wasting y'alls time.





Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

Slingshot

   
   Scott, You are wasting no one's time describing your winch replacement.
we are always interested in how everyone does their mods. I think no one
has posted the step by step process like you are doing. I think your winch
mount will be better and stronger than mine. I had trouble with my plate
bending from the winch power. I only posted my vids to let you know your
winch should work great and with no coasting to a stop.
    I used the cable that came on the winch and routed it the same as the
cable that was on the hand winch.
    You will like the mod. Interested in seeing the rest of your process.


_____________________________________



elk42

Scott
  Keep the update coming and the blue box you are using it looks like the yellow ones
that I got they leak around the handle. So you might need to drill holes in the box bottom to let the water out.
Machinist Retired, Lt15 WM 25 HP, Stihl 044, Stihl 311, Kubota M2900w/FEL, KUBOTA L4800 w/FEL,
Lincoln Ranger 10,000, stihl 034,

47sawdust

I copied Slingshot's winch on my Lt30.When I added a hydraulic pump for my toe rollers I had to relocate the winch.With the remote I can stand right at the log turner/loader to catch the log with a peavy as I get another bite.There is probably a better way but I haven't figured it out yet.Lotta different ways to turn a log.
Here's a picture of my winch mount.



 

There are 3 vertical pieces of 3/8'' steel that are welded to the base for the winch,U bolts from the spring shop fasten it too the mill frame.

Good luck with your fab job.

By the way your post is by no means a ''no brainer'',don't be afraid to share your enthusiasm.We all have more to learn.


Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

outpost22

Quote from: ScottInCabot on April 18, 2016, 10:47:55 AM
Quote from: outpost22 on April 18, 2016, 10:26:48 AM
Quote from: ScottInCabot on April 17, 2016, 09:01:52 PM
Quote from: outpost22 on April 17, 2016, 08:37:24 PM
I was thinking about doing a similar mod. My concern is that when you turn a winch off, it continues to wind down as the motor stops (my Warn 8000 does this). So, to stop the head where you need it (for accurate cutting heights), I'm not sure how you will overcome this winch trait if your winch does the same thing mine does.  If you figure it out, please let us know.  Or if this new winch doesn't have this trait, sign me up for one  :)

I am using this winch to pull the logs up the ramps and to turn logs....I'll still be using the hand crank and standard head crank.  Even if it does 'wind down', just means the log will just continue to get closer to the uprights....  And if I'm rolling a log 90*, it'll still be super easy to rock it back against the uprights.  I'm not trying to make a hydraulic mill...just something easier to use with a 50 year old double back surgery 'guy'.  I do not want to give up milling.  There is just something about being the first person to see a huge Butternut crotch sliced open, the figure, the grain structure, and then the customers' eyeballs popping out of their sockets....




The water drained away today, but the clouds are rolling in again.  Forecast shows another 5 days with rain chances above 40% for me(of course, wouldn't have it any other way).  So I may try to take a few 'cross your fingers and lets see what I can get done' tomorrow on the final mock-up.  Then it's just two more holes to drill, clean up the sharp edges, and paint.....wait a few then mount everything.



Scott in Cabot

I misread what you were trying to do. Using it as a log loader is a no brainer. I was trying to figure how to use one for moving the power head up and down and retain accuracy. Thanks to MM now I can look into a "shunt".



Thanks, I think?  "No brainer....ah, okay".....  I guess since everyone knows exactly how to do this, I'm wasting y'alls time.





Scott in Cabot

Sorry you misinterpreted my inflections. In the future I will refrain from responding to anything further you post.
Creating one more project one at a time.
Burg Bandsaw Mill
Stihl 010
Stihl 210
Stihl 251
Stihl 461
Husky 350
Kubota L3800

Chuck White

Quote from: elk42 on April 18, 2016, 03:51:15 PM
Scott
  Keep the update coming and the blue box you are using it looks like the yellow ones
that I got they leak around the handle.
So you might need to drill holes in the box bottom to let the water out.


I have a (mill) tool box with a handle like that!

Here's what I did to FIX mine.  Takes a while to complete.

1. Open the lid and put just a little bit of oil on the handle, where it's visible from inside the box.
2. Get some good silicone caulk and fill the recess where you put the oil on the handle!
3. Let it set, over night should work.
4. No more leak.

It still wouldn't hurt to drill a few holes in the bottom of the tool box.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

fishfighter

If you drill holes in the box, glue a piece of Scott Guard over the holes to keep bugs out.

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