iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Just Starting Out, Need All The Help I Can Get

Started by Woodmonkey, April 09, 2016, 10:53:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Woodmonkey

I want to buy a portable sawmill to build a small cook house (16x20 or so) and other projects around the house. I have a 38-acre lot with lots of longleaf and slash pine, and a good supply of poplar (up to 24" in diameter). I'm not in a hurry, I am retired, so I can work at a leisurely pace. I have a tractor with a grapple bucket that can easily handle moving logs. I have a pole barn where I could air-dry lumber if necessary.

I live near Newnan, Georgia, so I could easily drive there to pick up a Wood-Mizer sawmill. But, I don't want to limit myself to one particular brand. I want the sawmill that offers the best value for service and resale value when I'm through with it.

I have a few questions, so if you could get me going in the right direction, I'd be most grateful:

1.  Which bandmill? Why?

2.  Does the lumber have to be dried? How long?

3.  Can I use pine for framing, flooring and siding?

4.  Are there any construction methods I should use for lumber that isn't kiln dried?

5.  If you were in my situation, based on your experience and needing a similar structure, how would you proceed?
Woodland Mills HM126, Kubota GST 4240 with grapple bucket, Ford 8N, Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw.

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Woodmonkey.  I would be calling and driving to that WM outlet and looking at various models. 

I also would be making plans to attend this:  Another Project
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Verticaltrx

1. You can't go wrong with an LT15 or larger Woodmizer, if it's in your budget. Very solid, easy to use mills, great company backing.

2. For rough construction (framing, floor joists, walls, rafters, sheathing, etc) you can use green wood, straight off the mill. Build as you normally would, but allow the structure to dry/cure a while before finishing it or sealing it up. With pine lumber in a warm climate it may only take a few weeks to be almost fully dried. For the interior stuff the lumber should at least be fully air dried, otherwise you will have lots of shrinkage and possibly moisture problems. The rule of thumb for air drying is about 6mo per inch of board thickness, but I've found pine and poplar, in a warm, dry, windy area to dry faster than that.

3. Pine is excellent for framing, an good for floors too if you use a good hard southern yellow pine. Our white pine around here makes good siding, not sure if SYP would be ok for that or not. I would probably opt for the poplar for siding in your case, if you keep it dry (not touching the ground or areas that stay wet) it will last for many decades as siding. There is nothing wrong with using poplar for framing lumber as well. Heck, you can use many different types of wood for framing and sheathing a building. Just look up the span tables for load bearing members like rafters and floor joists by the wood type and size your lumber accordingly.

4. For rough construction just build as you normally would, there will be some shrinkage, but for most things it doesn't matter. You can use board an batten or board on board siding methods to negate the shrinkage/gaps, or lap siding properly nailed. Interior work is the same, with just being air dried there might be a little shrinkage, just use joinery that will allow for that.

5. Buy mill, saw lumber, air dry siding and interior lumber, build the rest green, let the building set a month or two, then finish it out. I build lots of barns, sheds and outbuildings with lumber straight off the mill and do some interior work with air dried lumber. Maybe not the best methods by today's standards, but 100yrs ago it was all done like that.

Hope some of this helps.  smiley_thumbsup
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Woodmonkey

Quote from: Magicman on April 09, 2016, 12:28:56 PM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Woodmonkey.  I would be calling and driving to that WM outlet and looking at various models. 

I also would be making plans to attend this:  Another Project

That's funny, I looked up the location of the "Another Project" you suggested I attend, and it's only 58 miles from my house.
Woodland Mills HM126, Kubota GST 4240 with grapple bucket, Ford 8N, Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw.

Woodmonkey

Quote from: Verticaltrx on April 09, 2016, 01:03:35 PM
1. You can't go wrong with an LT15 or larger Woodmizer, if it's in your budget. Very solid, easy to use mills, great company backing.

2. For rough construction ...

3. Pine is excellent for framing...

4. For rough construction ...

5. Buy mill, saw lumber, air dry...

Hope some of this helps.  smiley_thumbsup

It helps immensely. This is exactly the sort of advice I was looking for.
Woodland Mills HM126, Kubota GST 4240 with grapple bucket, Ford 8N, Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw.

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Better check to determine if any permits are required to build the structures you want to build. If permits are required, the building code and inspectors may require that you lumber be a proper grade stamp if used for structural framing.

Good Luck!

Herb

Woodmonkey

Quote from: PC-Urban-Sawyer on April 09, 2016, 01:59:44 PM
Better check to determine if any permits are required to build the structures you want to build. If permits are required, the building code and inspectors may require that you lumber be a proper grade stamp if used for structural framing.

Good Luck!

Herb

The Code Enforcement Officer is the son of my next-door-neighbor when I was growing up. This is a small community, odds are pretty good that if you don't know someone around here, you know someone that does. Building permits and local construction codes only apply to homes (dwellings intended for occupation) in my county. The cook house I plan to build will be outfitted with a deep fryer and a sink, with tables and chairs and that's about it.
Woodland Mills HM126, Kubota GST 4240 with grapple bucket, Ford 8N, Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw.

WV Sawmiller

Woodmonkey,

   Welcome to the FF. I am thrilled with my Woodmizer and especially to have the hydraulics and the support I have gotten to date. The other name brands are also highly rated and I hear good things about support for them too. Some even have features I don' t have but would like. I visited WM in Albermarle and Tyler showed me the features before I ever ordered my mill. I had never run or even watched a mill in operation but decided the design and maintenance were straightforward enough I could handle it even being mechanically challenged at times.

   I'd suggest you check with other mill owners in the area and if possible go talk with them and observe their mills in operation to help you make up your mind which is the best fit for your intended use and budget. Watch them in operation and ask about maintenance and support.

   I originally planned on getting a manual mill too but my wife and friends talked me into getting the hydraulics and it was the best advise they could have given me.

   Good luck. I am sure you will enjoy the sawing.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Chuck White

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

wesdor

Welcome to the Forum Woodmonkey.

I'm probably one of the smallest operations here on the Forum and as such no real expert, but I do own a Woodmizer LT15 which is a manual mill.  A couple of years ago I ran a Timberking B20 (Full hydraulic ). 

My opinion is that sawing quality lumber is a lot more than buying a good mill (I think your questions reflect that thought as well). Ideally you will be able to find a local sawyer and work as an off bearer for a few days.  Learn as much as possible so you can make a better choice when you do purchase. In my case I would have preferred a fully automated mill, but the wife said $$ were only there for the manual.   ;)
There are quite a few good mills out there and your production goals are directly related to how automated the mill.  Most of all I hope you can enjoy getting sawdust "in your blood". I always find it exciting to open up a log and see the grain.

Good luck

rooster 58

Welcome to the forum Woodmonkey.

   Hmmmm, let's see now. We have a goat and a monkey and a rooster here. Is this becoming a zoological site say_what

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

thecfarm

Woodmonkey,welcome to the forum.
Get yourself a cantdog or a peavey to help rolling,flipping the logs. Logrite is a sponsor on the left and they will tell you the difference between a cantdog and a peavey.
Different region,diffeant wood,but I cut the tree,saw it,and build with it all with in a few hours most times.
I built this for the wife. She is happy with it.



 

This has no inside walls,really just a shed. So the wood can breath and dry out with no mold happening.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

dgdrls

Welcome to the FF Woodmonkey.

Take a look to the left of the page, there are many mill builders there to research,
IMHO if you go WoodMizer go with a  Mono-beam mill, the 28 series or larger.

Also, do not hesitate to look at a used unit.

Best
Dan

Woodmonkey

I'm starting to lean toward the Woodland Mills HM126 sawmill. I considered the Wood-Mizer LT10, but it was pricey. Then I went in the other direction and looked at the Harbor Freight Sawmill, but even though the reviews were pretty good, I couldn't imagine trying to get parts for it if something broke. The Woodland Mills machine has a good online reputation for parts support and a 2-year warranty, and I can have it delivered to my house for about $750 more than the Harbor Freight and over $1000 less than the LT10.

Now, bandsaw blades? What would be a good source for blades? I will be sawing 90% pine and 10% poplar, so I expect the blades will last a reasonable length of time. My first project will be the cook house (16'x20'). I intend to saw the lumber for the frame, floors, and exterior siding. I'll buy enough blades to get me started, then figure out what to do about sharpening after I've got some experience with their durability and costs associated with having them sharpened by someone else or buying the stuff to do it myself.

Please provide me with your opinions. That's what I'm here for.


PS
I looked for used sawmills, and there aren't many options around here. A quick check of Craigslist revealed exactly 0.
Woodland Mills HM126, Kubota GST 4240 with grapple bucket, Ford 8N, Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw.

Magicman

There are several satisfied Woodland Mills HM126 owners here.  If you are not planning to resharpen your own blades then I would consider using Wood-Mizer blades and their Resharp service.  Due to the blade tooth profile, they will not resharpen any blades from other blade suppliers.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Woodmonkey

Quote from: thecfarm on April 10, 2016, 08:17:59 AM



 

This has no inside walls,really just a shed. So the wood can breath and dry out with no mold happening.
That is the sort of structure I'm looking to build for my first project.
Woodland Mills HM126, Kubota GST 4240 with grapple bucket, Ford 8N, Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw.

Woodmonkey

Quote from: Magicman on April 10, 2016, 03:23:55 PM
There are several satisfied Woodland Mills HM126 owners here.  If you are not planning to resharpen your own blades then I would consider using Wood-Mizer blades and their Resharp service.  Due to the blade tooth profile, they will not resharpen any blades from other blade suppliers.

I just looked at their Resharp service, and that looks like a good way to go. At $7 per blade, I could saw at the pace I plan to saw for several years before I could ever come close to justifying the cost of my own sharpening equipment.
Woodland Mills HM126, Kubota GST 4240 with grapple bucket, Ford 8N, Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw.

Magicman

I have been using their resharp services for over 13 years.  For me with shipping both ways it is $10 per blade.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Woodmonkey

Quote from: Magicman on April 10, 2016, 03:46:33 PM
I have been using their resharp services for over 13 years.  For me with shipping both ways it is $10 per blade.
It does say "for as little as $7..." For me it will probably $11 per. ::) But, even at $10 per it would probably be a good deal for me.
Woodland Mills HM126, Kubota GST 4240 with grapple bucket, Ford 8N, Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw.

Magicman

Yup, $7 is the base price.  Shipping and taxes amounts to the other $3. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SkyDoc

Woodmonkey,

I am in a similar tree getting started milling. I have different but similar goals. I am starting out small and just had my "starter mill" delivered two days ago. I am starting with a manual Lumbersmith Bantam 26 push mill. I opted for this because I could set up the track as long as I might need. I am going to start with 20' of track. With all of the options, shipping, and some bands, I was all in for 3300.00.

Once I liquidate a few things (and practice some on my smaller mill) I am going to purchase a fully hydraulic Turner Mills trailer model. I too have looked at all of the models and weighed their pro's and con's. After speaking with Bill (the owner of Turner Mills) I was impressed with his knowledge and his reliance on parts that are commonly available at any parts store in the event of a mechanical issue. Plus, Turner Mills use trailer tires as the bandwheels which are supposed to run the bands cooler therefore extending their useful life. I have found others who support this claim. Please dont misinterpret my assessment that steel bandwheels are "bad". I just chose the tire option because the rationale made sense to me and I could verify it.

I hope this helps and welcome to the forum.

Doc
Dad always said "its easier to learn from someone else's  mistake than to make it yourself". Thats why I am here....

Magicman

There is no significant heat causing friction with bands going around any bandwheel.  My blades run on B57 belts and if a blade gets hot, it is dull.  I suspect the same with the other manufacturers.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SkyDoc

Quote from: Magicman on April 10, 2016, 05:43:08 PM
There is no significant heat causing friction with bands going around any bandwheel.  My blades run on B57 belts and if a blade gets hot, it is dull.  I suspect the same with the other manufacturers.

Good to know. Cant argue with your decades of experience.
Dad always said "its easier to learn from someone else's  mistake than to make it yourself". Thats why I am here....

plowboyswr

Try checking Kasco or any of the sponsors on the left for blades. Before I purchased mine from Kasco  I asked their dealer about  sharpening  which they do. It never hurts to ask questions when pricing.  :)
Just an ole farm boy takin one day at a time.
Steve

Thank You Sponsors!