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OldJarheads Milling Thread...

Started by OlJarhead, April 06, 2016, 02:06:53 PM

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paul case

In my case, some times you are the pigeon, sometimes you are the statue.
$.35/ bdft
PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Magicman

The WM service truck comes through my area every year and I have mine serviced every three years.  Be sure and watch and understand everything that James does and ask why.

My travel and setup is $1.50 per mile one way one time, whether I am sawing bf rate or hourly rate.  I bill at the bf rate of the log I saw.  If it's an 18' log the customer (or I) can buck it to 16½' or I will bill it as 18'.

I most always saw at the bf rate and there is normally a slight pile of "extra" lumber that I do not scale or bill for.  I always point this out to the customer, and he may point out that he added a tip to my invoice.

There are times when a log is just bad and will not make anything even after I make a few cuts.  I find that it is better to just kick it off and move on to a better log.  Of course I also cull logs before they reach the sawmill.  The customer does not know and appreciates the guidance.   
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bandmill Bandit

Hi Eric

Mine gets the major in the shop once over every spring and general check every thing over in the fall.

When I say a major once over it starts with a all shields and guards removed high pressure steam/acid wash down and then I go through all woodmizer recommended maintenance procedures.

My mill is in very good condition with just shy of 2000 hours. The only signs of use are the paint fade because I dont have a shed to store it in and the scars on side supports from brain farts while milling. AND the bent fender from the lowering the loader BEFORE I took the fender off. I straightened it out but its not factory pretty.   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Brucer

I typically do a complete alignment (strictly by the book) every 3 years or 200,000 BF, whichever comes first.

The simple alignment procedure is usually good enough when something is "off" but after a while the adjustments tend to drift away from the original starting point -- which is the frame of the mill.

And yes, for the complete alignment you have to remove the blade guide roller assemblies (and put on new bandwheel belts). Don't take shortcuts.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

woodyone.john

I live on a bumpy dusty road and so too do some of my clients.I do minor adjustment approx monthly and this seems to keep things running better than an annual approach for me.
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: OlJarhead on May 15, 2017, 05:50:27 PM
When you bill by the board foot do you still charge delivery/setup fees?

I charge mileage after the first 10 miles to try to keep my fees down but to get paid for long hauls. And to keep jobs local to my yard.

Quote
Do you charge for actual board footage milled, or what the customers wants despite the logs they provide (i.e. they want 16 foot lumber and provide 18 foot logs).

actual bdft coming off the mill. you cut it you should be paid for it.

Quote
What if you make what they ask but can't help to make something else in the process (like 2x4's from flitches that yielded 2x8's and 2x4's but they only wanted 2x8's)?
actual bdft regardless of what was ordered.

Quote
What if the logs are all badly checked?  Lots of pitch pockets? 
actual bdft, low quality is pointed out and recommended to not be sawn, but sawn if asked to.

QuoteI'm trying to understand the billing because so far, I don't see an advantage unless there are all good, green, big logs so I can produce at a good rate.
Some jobs are better than others.
Good luck
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

WV Sawmiller

Erik,

   I agree with Jim on all his points except charging for lumber the customer did not order. Even though it may be a fast and simple cut to salvage a 2X4 or 1X6 out of a flitch if the customer can't use them why should he pay for them?

   You might contract for you to keep all such salvage but then you have to figure out a way to sell it at the site or haul it off the job and more importantly how to cut it without interfering or appearing to interfere with your contracted sawing. This is easier if sawing by the bf. It may be simple to make one one pass to cut that 2x4 but if sawing hourly how do you go off the clock for that one pass and if you have to set the flitch aside and resaw it at the end of the shift that means more handling and may not be worth the time and effort for the extra handling.

   Even if sawing by the bf there may be an appearance you are padding your stack a little at the expense of the customer's cut list. A better option might be to discount the customer's sawing bill for the salvage.

   The worst part about any of these options is it puts you in the lumber selling business when maybe you don't want to do so. If you had a customer wanting the side lumber who would pick it up on site so you don't have the extra hauling/transport, labor, storage, marketing, and retail selling costs this might be be more attractive.

   Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

grouch

Quote from: Magicman on May 15, 2017, 08:23:10 PM
[snip]

My travel and setup is $1.50 per mile one way one time, whether I am sawing bf rate or hourly rate.  I bill at the bf rate of the log I saw.  If it's an 18' log the customer (or I) can buck it to 16½' or I will bill it as 18'.

I most always saw at the bf rate and there is normally a slight pile of "extra" lumber that I do not scale or bill for.  I always point this out to the customer, and he may point out that he added a tip to my invoice.

There are times when a log is just bad and will not make anything even after I make a few cuts.  I find that it is better to just kick it off and move on to a better log.  Of course I also cull logs before they reach the sawmill.  The customer does not know and appreciates the guidance.

HIRED!

The rest of y'all get outta my yard.

I'm muddling along trying to learn how to get the most out of the trees I manage to get to my sawmill. If I were to hire somebody to come saw some logs, I'd want their advice on the logs and their willingness to saw even the scrap if I was willing to pay for it. If there was extra lumber at the end of the job that I didn't foresee, you bet there'd be a "tip" on that invoice.

Years ago I added a room onto my late mother's house, just for one of her great granddaughters to have to herself. I started out asking Mom how she preferred this or that -- details of the structure. She stopped that pretty quick with, "If I thought I knew more about it than you, I'd be building it."
Find something to do that interests you.

sandsawmill14

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 16, 2017, 09:03:53 AM
Erik,

   I agree with Jim on all his points except charging for lumber the customer did not order. Even though it may be a fast and simple cut to salvage a 2X4 or 1X6 out of a flitch if the customer can't use them why should he pay for them?

   You might contract for you to keep all such salvage but then you have to figure out a way to sell it at the site or haul it off the job and more importantly how to cut it without interfering or appearing to interfere with your contracted sawing. This is easier if sawing by the bf. It may be simple to make one one pass to cut that 2x4 but if sawing hourly how do you go off the clock for that one pass and if you have to set the flitch aside and resaw it at the end of the shift that means more handling and may not be worth the time and effort for the extra handling.

   Even if sawing by the bf there may be an appearance you are padding your stack a little at the expense of the customer's cut list. A better option might be to discount the customer's sawing bill for the salvage.

   The worst part about any of these options is it puts you in the lumber selling business when maybe you don't want to do so. If you had a customer wanting the side lumber who would pick it up on site so you don't have the extra hauling/transport, labor, storage, marketing, and retail selling costs this might be be more attractive.

   Good luck.

ask before you start what he wants to do with the side lumber or 2x4 -2x6 and so on thats not on his cut list  ???  if he dont want it just slab heavy and forget about it  ;) then there is no problems or confusion  :)  but i have saw upwards of 4 million bdft over the last several years and have only been told twice that they didnt want it :) most say "i will use it for something"   Most people give you a cut list for what they need for a project but want everything the logs will saw out but dont leave a bunch of 1" lumber with alot of wane ;)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

OlJarhead

#@#$@  :o :( :-\

So I've backed the mill into it's parking spot a hundred times without an issue.  I pull up, swing around and back it to the chalks.  My wife always says "how on earth do you do that?" and I usually respond with something about doing it all the time.....

And then today happen! #@#@%$@

Had a neighbor with a short walnut log he wanted milled up so I ran over to his place (maybe 5 houses away) milled it up for him, collected $100 (he asked how much, I said "whatever you think is fair" and he handed me a $100 bill)....and drove back home and backed the mill up...only I was at a slightly different angle and not thinking...I swung the truck around a bit and didn't think about the camper....and took the mirror off my son in laws car and scratched the door and buggered the leg on the camper :(

SO ya, I gave my son-in-law the $100 and will have to go mill a little more to pay for the rest of the damage!  :o  :snowball:
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Oliver05262

Ouch !!!  Been there; done that sort of thing.
  Years ago, our volunteer fire dept got a call early one morning. The chief threw on his duds, fired up his pickup and hit the door opener, and gunned it in reverse out of the garage--------------right into the front end of his son-in-laws car.
  He read the poor SIL the riot act for being dumb enough to park in front of the garage. We all got a chuckle out of it, and Chief finally saw the humor in it, too.
Oliver Durand
"You can't do wrong by doing good"
It's OK to cry.
I never did say goodby to my invisible friend.
"I woke up still not dead again today" Willy
Don't use force-get a bigger hammer.

OlJarhead

Ya I don't see much humor in mine! LOL  Specially the having to pay for it part....
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

WV Sawmiller

Erik,

   I feel your pain. A few weeks back my son called to get me to come help him come pull his pump. he also called his FIL who had a tool to help pull it. I went up, we pulled the pump then had to go get a few parts so took my truck. I backed out into his FIL. After insurance I had to pay $500 deductible on the $1500 or so to my truck and they said $1008 for sons FIL. You had to look close to see the scrape on his and a small dent in mine. I put mine in the shop last week so local body shop fixed mine while I went to WM owner's day down in Albermarle NC. No good deed goes unpunished.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

rjwoelk

oldjarhead gues what may be coming past your place next week. got a load back to Albany OR. The reload may be Genie again. will give you a heads up Tuesday.  Bob
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

OlJarhead

Let me know Bob!  I will be heading north a couple days this week (usually mid-week) so who knows!


Milled up some beams, 2x's and 1x's to finish out a couple orders for my customer in the Okanogan yesterday.  Was just a day trip and about 3000bf (need to check the math -- edit:  math checked and it was 3268bf).


Came home to a few pics of 'logs in a pile' from a potential customer (sounds like they are serious) up north of Spokane.  I got the impression they wanted them all milled but looking at the logs I'm thinking there are a lot of small logs in there that ought to be pulled out (unless they really want me to make 2x4's out of them ;) )....

We shall see but I'm likely booked through to July sometime now and have yet to get back to my cabin!
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

OlJarhead

Oh and with some better logs I managed around 600bf per band before swapping them out....then ran into another dry log and boy it was a challenge to get more than 300-400...and then back to good logs and the BF goes up.

I can say now that I am convinced that very dry logs eat bands.
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

grouch

That makes sense, though. Dry means hardness, abrasion and heat -- all detrimental to sharp edges on tools. That's a pretty dramatic drop-off.

If it was a milling machine or hob, you'd just flood it with a good coolant to maintain feed rate. Customers probably wouldn't appreciate petroleum filled lumber, though.
Find something to do that interests you.

Bandmill Bandit

Dry knotty spruce eats band but also the lube. i run the lube tap wide open on them and am lucky to get close to 700 BF on a band cutting it. Straight boards is real hard to get from a dry spruce log and I would guess dry pine would be the same.

I need to try some carbide bands I think.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Darrel

1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

derhntr

I know dry Ash will gum the heck out of a band.
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

Mt406

I though that was band life.
80% of my logs are dead standing.

Kbeitz

Quote from: derhntr on May 22, 2017, 10:14:40 AM
I know dry Ash will gum the heck out of a band.

I never had any gum from ash...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

grouch

Quote from: Kbeitz on May 22, 2017, 06:56:35 PM
Quote from: derhntr on May 22, 2017, 10:14:40 AM
I know dry Ash will gum the heck out of a band.

I never had any gum from ash...

But have you had any ash from gum?
Find something to do that interests you.

Kbeitz

Maybe one reason I never had gum from Ash is All Ash that I have cut
had been dead standing for a while.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

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