OldJarheads Milling Thread...

[OlJarhead]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfv3BBApyHA
This was the 27th log (I was telling them the 25th but I forgot I'd done 12 on Saturday, not 10!)...

Couldn't roll it with one long and one short CANT Hook so we rolled it with the tractor..I need to get a hook like MM and others use just for this reason!

[Dave Shepard]

You should have no problem sawing through 18 inches of wood. I used to saw through two feet or more of oak with a 24hp WM.

[OlJarhead]

Maybe it was just me, or it was just too slow.  I could mill an 12" cant (split) into 2x6s and then a 6" cant into 2x faster than an 18" though I didn't time it.

I also noticed the blade started to 'sing' a bit in a cut 18 inches or better and got warmer (kept having to tighten it up)...but admittedly I did cut through the original 22" fine, it was just slow.

[bkaimwood]

Maybe it was just me, or it was just too slow.  I could mill an 12" cant (split) into 2x6s and then a 6" cant into 2x faster than an 18" though I didn't time it.

I also noticed the blade started to 'sing' a bit in a cut 18 inches or better and got warmer (kept having to tighten it up)...but admittedly I did cut through the original 22" fine, it was just slow.

A singing blade is a pretty sure sign of dullness, and need for a change...I too, tighten it, and fight it off for a bit...the heat is from the friction created by dullness...nice work wrestling with those logs!!

[Magicman]

X2 what bkaimwood said.  A hot blade is generally a dull blade.  If one starts loosing tension, "there is your sign".

[OlJarhead]

I guess I am expecting more out of them.  How often are you changing them out?  I must have run through 8 or 10 this weekend (I need to count them to see still).

I used double hards, bimetals and a couple Turbo 7's.  The Double Hards should run at least 2-3 hours from what I've read people saying here, and the bimetals longer but what I need to think about is BF rates vs how often to change the band...if milling 250bf/hr and a band last only say, 500 bf then 2 hrs of milling is what you get....right?

[Bandmill Bandit]

Hey Eric

I would say you are for sure havin fun.

As far as BF per sharpen cycle you'll get over it with experiance and you will learn the "feel" and "sound" (harmony) of YOUR happy mill. Every one is marginal different.

As i have stated before I sharpen my own bands and I sharpen and set fresh put of a new box BEFORE the band goes on the mill.

Right now my average BF per sharpen cycle runs between 1200 and 1500 BF per cycle and on occasion as high as 2000 +/- BF. BUT of the other end of tyhe scale I get logs at times that will finsh a blade in 300BF or less.

There are so many factors that affect the BF per cycle that it is really impossible to try and nail a "should cut" BF number per sharpen cycle.

There was a time when I had a hard time to get a thousand feet as an average AND I didn't get a single blade sharpened out where I couldn't sharpen it again. Every band broke at 5 to 7 sharp cycles.

That was a result of poor sharpening technic. Thanks to a half hour hands on tutorial session with Garry at the Woodmizer booth at the Ag show 3 years ago I sharpen as good or better than the resharp program. If I didnt I wouldn't be sharpening new blades BEFORE I use them.

Now if a band breaks its my fault OR trap metal. 

I dont know that I could explain all the nuances of blade expertise but it come with sawing more logs AND spending time reading and watching other sawyers sharpen and hands on with the Woodmizer people.

You will get it and it will be a as much a part of you as music is to Carry Underwood and Brad Paisley along with many others.

A singing blade on pitch is a happy blade. If it is flat it is probably to loose. if not loose definitely dull. If its sharp its to tight. Sharp with a tick its about to break.

Then there is the saw dust quality, etc etc.

You will get it! Let it go! The sooner you let it go the sooner it will all come together!
     

[ST Ranch]

ERIK
BB's post above has a lot to it. - I was a lot like you when I got my first mill, trying to quantify everything and actually "overthink" every thing I did. - At the time, I had a partner I was milling with and he was almost the opposite. He just went with the flow and we learned together what worked and what did not.

Today, it [milling] kind of comes natural and I get anywhere from 300 BF - 1200+ BF from a blade sharpening. Depends a lot on species, size of log, moisture content [ and sap] and ring density, etc.

Some of the older growth D-fir, Larch and Py with real tight ring count [especially if dry and pitchy - or pitch pockets in larch] are real slow cutting and eat blades if you don't use lots of lube. On the other hand green spruce and lodge-pole pine cut like a knife through butter.

That said, I see you appear to be milling big diameter Doug-fir [and possibly yellow pine] - those big fir butt logs can be slow to mill and use up blades quickly due to pitch build-up, overheating of blade and loosing your set. - try running lots of lube - I mix 1/3 window wash to 2/3 water when doing big pine and fir.  Also if those logs are fairly fresh cut - they will be in the spring sap flow and lots of pitch to deal with.

Bruce R might also have some ideas on this as he cuts similar species.

Anyway - keep up the good work, keep learning, and keep posting your efforts cuz we all get to learn from the feedback everyone one here sends our way.

Tom

[OlJarhead]

Thanks guys.  On the Lt10 I just ran until the thing started to follow knots...on this mill there is just a LOT more to it!

I did finally figure out the drive tension was down (10lbs) and got it tighter and then all seemed to settle and I was cutting nice and flat, I just felt it was cutting too slow on an 18-22" cant and seemed to be changing out bands every couple hours at one point.

Maybe I just need a job where all goes right and I can actually get a good feel! lol  You'd think with 5-6 years of milling under my belt I'd have a better feel but changing from a 10 to a 40 seemed to set me back a bit.

Still, I'm making sawdust so all is good   Oh and I get paid to make it too!

[Brucer]

I'm kind of like Tom. As low as 300 BF per sharpening, up to over 1000 BF per sharpening. But those are outliers. Normally I sit in the 500- 800 range.

I've learned a few things along the way to keep the blades sharp longer.

• Even though I don't need lube on many green species (such as D-Fir), I found that if I always keep a little lube flowing my blades stay sharp longer.
• Whichever end of the log you're entering, make sure it's clean! The debarker won't help you on the ends. I use a wooden handled stainless steel welding brush if there's any sign of grit or even just plain dirt on the end of the log.
• Always keep some inward pressure on the debarker. It's easy to overlook on a sweepy or tapered log, and once the debarker comes clear of the surface, you can dull the whole DanG blade in a couple of inches.
  Here's a tip. I  keep an eye on the end of the rod that pushes the debarker into the log. As long as there's some of that rod sticking out to the right, you've got some leeway. I move the debarker in our out so I always have a couple of inches of rod exposed.
• The height of your debarker blade is critical. You want your sawblade to be cutting into the lower part of the track cut by the debarker. I check mine from time to time when I've started a cut in a D-Fir or Larch with thick bark. There should be a little bit of the groove cut by the debarker blade showing below the saw cut, and a bit more of the groove showing above the saw cut.
• It's also important to check the height of the debarker on various widths of cut. If it's not swinging in a plane parallel to the saw blade, there could be spots where the saw blade runs out of the debarker path.
  

Remember ... all logs have dirt in the bark (yes, they do, trust me on this).

[Bandmill Bandit]

What Brucer said X 10. Especially about the bark embedded  dirt, sand and debris.

I use a pine based  green friendly (color too) industrial degreaser, bug/tar remover. It is the best one I have found of everything I have tried and it smells good too. I can post a link to the company that sells it here local if any one want to see if they can find it too.

[MartyParsons]

Brucer,
   That is some good info there!!
M

[Peter Drouin]

I have dulled a blade in one cut before :D
All what Brucer said can happen, On the out word side of the log will dull the blade with no debarker there. If you cut late when the sun is all most down and it's getting dark out you see sparks coming out of the cut  so much so you would think you would set the sawdust on fire around the mill.  :D :D

[Chuck White]

I most often use 2 blades/day, and average a little shy of 2,000 bf.

Of course, if you hit a stone, nail, etc, that adds one more blade!  :

[Magicman]

Thanks Brucer.  Peter also made a good point about cleaning the exit side of the log.  It is amazing how many small rocks, etc. I find when I walk along that side with my brush in hand.  It is also much easier sometimes to saw an inch off of a log end rather than to try to clean it.

[GAB]

Brucer said: "Remember ... all logs have dirt in the bark (yes, they do, trust me on this)."
This is especially true of hickory logs.  For some reason hickory trees seem to act as nature's air filters.
Peter said: "I have dulled a blade in one cut before"
I totally dulled a fresh blade in 3 passes on a hickory log (I can't remember its length) and to the naked eye it looked clean.
Gerald

[OlJarhead]

Ok this makes sense then.  I'm milling logs pulled, dragged and rolled in the mud, then lifted up onto the mill and milled down.  Sure I have a debarker but only catches so much right -- I saw dirt in the front as I entered the log (knocked as much out of the way that I could.

I used ten bands in 4500bf....this isn't so bad after all.  I'm running about 450bf/band in dirt logs and had a loose drive belt to boot (so got bands hot until I fixed it).

Learning....learning.....  8)

[Magicman]

Your bf per blade was probably better than I did on this job.


 
Yes, that is a gravel road.   

[GAB]

Sometimes the location of the dirt on the logs determines how I saw it (ie open the log).
I do all I can to save my blades.
Gerald

[Chuck White]

It's also a good idea to check both ends of the logs for dirt and gravel.

[Magicman]

What happens with our SYP and ERC is that the logs may be skidded while the sap is runny and sticky.  It picks up the dirt and grit and then hardens.    Cement would not be much worse on blades.  That is why I favor slicing a thin cookie off of the end(s).

[Brucer]

Chuck had a good point. Dirt on the exit of the log can be just as big a problem.

As for dulling the blade on the exit side of the cut, in theory the last bit of wood should blow out of the cut just ahead of the tooth. In practice, it ain't necessarily so. If there's no big rocks and no sand, and if the blade is sharp, and if the log isn't frozen, the blade won't dull too quickly on the exit.

Even if you don't normally saw in the dark, try doing as Peter suggested once in a while and you'll get a very graphic look at what's happening. When I sawed a frozen log late in the day a few years ago, it looked like I has holding a mini-grinder to a piece of steel.

I once tried the stellite blades from WM and I easily got 2000 BF before the blades needed sharpening. However ... one blade broke after 2 sharpenings (2000 BF causes deeper cracks in the gullet and my sharpening guy didn't go deep enough to take them all out). I used another blade to see how they would stand up to cutting side stops and I found I only got about 20% deeper into the metal then I did with doublehards.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Brucer
I tested stellites too. The side stop has a souvenir scar as a result and yes it is a bit deeper.

I found the stellite band to be a bit "softer" metal and did not get 1 of the 5 sharpened out to unsharpenable before it broke. On 5 bands 3 cycles was the average. Got 5 cycles out of 1.

They will  cut more BF per cycle BUT that may be the problem with them as the gullet cracks will be deeper so would have to grind more agressive. at the end of the day I dont think they will cut more BF over their usefull cutting/sharpening life.

I haven't tried the bi metals yet but I do plan too.       

[OlJarhead]

So far I've tried Double Hards (my main band for 6 years now), BiMetals -- maybe my new main band since I like them a lot and can get more out of them as they run longer, and Turbo7's which seem to cut very smooth but last only about 2 hours of milling (~450bf) though my drive belt was loose (10lbs) so perhaps I'd get more out of them once I run them with a properly adjusted drive.

All in all my favorites right now are the BiMetals which I have 10 of.

[woodyone.john]

OJH, have you tried the .55's yet.I spent an afternoon earlier in the week cutting knotty cupressus into 700 mm[28''] slabs.One blade did about 3 1/2 hrs sawing and all slabs were flat and true.
chhers john