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Band wheel belts

Started by onorato, April 04, 2016, 07:59:06 PM

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onorato

I see Timberwolf makes a urethane band wheel belt. Has anyone used one of these?

Magicman

Yes, and I do not recommend using them.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Kbeitz

When I worked at Grizzly tools I made a tire changer for the urethane bands
Putting new ones on was a big job.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Quebecnewf

I soon have to change mine. This will be my second time. If I remember right the last time was a struggle. Any one have any tips or jigs to make this go easier?

Why do you not like the urethane belts they are supposed to be " better" ?
Quebecnewf

Kbeitz

If you don't have a tire changer then soak them in very hot water before installation.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

47sawdust

I used the urethane belts from Timberwolf on my Kasco and they worked fine for me.I installed them by using one "c" clamp and a couple screw drivers to work the belt into the groove.Having the belt warm and using dish detergent also helps.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

onorato

Magicman what did you find that you didn't like with the belts?

Magicman

They did not do anything special that the B57's were not already doing so I quit looking for a better mousetrap.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

onorato

Magician what size wheels do you have with b57? Just curious because mine came with b56 on 18.75 wheel and didn't know if that was why my belts are uneven? Maybe they pulled so hard to mount them they broke inner cords?

Bandmill Bandit

I use the B56 On the drive side and a B57 on the idle side.

I use a rag soaked in ATF/dextron an give the B56  about a 5 minute rub pulling it through the oil soaked rag. Make sure the drive pulley is clean and give it a liberal rub with the oil soaked rag.

Engage the clutch so the pulley cant turn for the first part of the install.

Put the belt into the pulley and use a small wood wedge between pulley and the exit chute to force the belt to stay in place and cant slip around the pulley.

I use a couple of motor cycle tire change pry bars, a couple of medium screw drivers, a 4 oz hammer and a 6 to 8 inch block of wood.

It is tedious and requires inching along the pulley with the bars. oil the ends of the bars  with the oil rag as required as the belt needs to slide on them not twist.


The last 6 inches like to go in side ways BUT don't take it out. Release the clutch so you can rotate the pulley to finish the job.

With a screw driver that has been filed round you have to pry and push a bit to get it to start to twist back to ward you and then tap with  the block and hammer. I should a done video when I changed mine on Sunday. 



Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Quebecnewf

There is a video on YouTube of a guy explaining how to do it. He seems to do it with ease. Wheel is dismounted from machine. I am sure I would not be able to  change mine on the machine. When I did mine a few years ago I went with one inch longer belts. Did not like the slack once installed. Took those of and replaced them with the right ones. We had a struggle but thanks to my brother in law we got them on. I think with the help of the video this time should go easier. We were trying to put them on with out letting them roll. Rather than putting them on with the roll and taking that out after they were on. I also think very warm belts and soapy water are very important in the job. We will see how it goes when I do mine in the next month or so.

-14 C here with a wind chill of -25 this morning so not that spring like yet.

Quebecnewf

Magicman

Quote from: onorato on April 06, 2016, 12:23:13 AMMagician what size wheels do you have with b57?
19".  Listing your location and sawmill in your profile always helps with answering questions.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

47sawdust

Timberwolf will also provide you with installation tips as well as how to measure.
Give them a call.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Bandmill Bandit

Soap water is NOT recommended. I know this from experience. It does NOT provide for an evenly slippery motion for the belt and you end up with the last 6 inches of the belt turned up side down rather than just twisted with top facing the inside of the pulley. When this happens you have to remove the belt and start over.

Also the water evaporates but the soap does not and leaves a slippery film on the belt and the pulley. NOT a good condition for a traction belt! I used soap and water the first time and it cost me a belt!

ATF/Dextron are rubber compatible and DO NOT damage the belt.

There is NO NEED to remove the pulley. In fact that would make the install much more difficult as you would have a very hard time holding everything solid that needs to be held to get the belt in a position to work it in place.

My belt was room temp BUT the ATF/dextron makes the belt a bit more supple so it goes on pretty nice. Took me about 15 minutes total.

Probably the most critcal step is get the belt in the pulley AND then getting the wedge jammed in tight enough to hold the belt in place so it will not slip.

Work the belt on so that you have the remaining part of the belt that needs to be pryed in place between about 1 o'clock and 4 o'clock.
Put a medium screw drive in the groove holding the belt so that you can jam the handle between the mast and the pulley/belt so it stays put.

Now work from the 3 ish position up ward towards the screw driver moving about the width of the pry bars, hand over hand for each move up. When you reach the point of the belt wanting to twist and slip into the groove on it own let it go. The top face of the belt should be facing the inside of the pulley.

Now release the clutch and take out the wedge so you can rotate the pulley. turn the pulley so you have the twisted part of the belt at about the 7 to 10 o'clock position so that you have clear access to the belt with the block through the opening at the bottom of the blade housing.

Use the blunt screw driver or a pry bar to get the inside bottom edge of the belt to slip below the top out side edge of the pulley. Once you have that edge down start to tap with the  the hammer and block at the point where the belt is twisting up out o the groove. You don't have to tap hard and you only need to move the block about a 1/2 inch at a time. The belt will slip in place about like a tire slips on the last bit when hammered in place with a tire hammer.
 
It took me longer to type this than it did to change the belt. Belt change was about 15 to 20 minutes including removing the old one.

The tools I had on at the mill when I did the change pictured below.



 


Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Tom the Sawyer

I accidently ordered the wrong belts and they have worked very well.  Less challenging to install too. 

I ordered BX56 rather than B56 belts.  The X means a cogged belt.  Same dimensions otherwise and the cogs give more flexibility when installing.  It's still not easy, just easier. ;)
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Bandmill Bandit

I am thinking that was a brilliant mistake Tom.

Keep us posted on belt life. 600 ish hours is about the max for the woodmizer B56 belts. Any more than that is just a head ache. of wavy lumber.


Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Dave Shepard

B57s go on in about ten seconds and work fine. :)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

petefrom bearswamp

Tried the urethane on my old mill.
They had a high spot and the blade went wump wump and broke in short order.
Gave up on them after TW sent me another set with the same wump wump thing.
After fighting with b56 I went back to b57, much easier and no negative issues with them.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

onorato

Yea my b56 belts that came with my mill did the wimp wump thing , along with a wobbly wheel , got a new wheel coming. I think when they put the belt on they stretched it so much that they broke cords in one area. I will put new belt on with lube was thinking tire lube i use for truck tires.

killamplanes

I run b57 got sick of dreading changing 56 won't go back..
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Bandmill Bandit

Each to his own but I will not go back to B57 on the drive side. The change is really not that tough. Just takes a little patience and the right tools. I wouldn't even try it with out my 2 bike tire irons.

There are so many reasons not to use the B57 On the drive side when most of the material I saw is sappy Jack Pine and sticky White Spruce. 20 minutes to swap a belt every 600 ish hours is well worth it in my books. It really is not a hard task.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

killamplanes

Im all hardwood some sycomore is as close to soft wood I get so 57 don't give me a problem!!
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Quebecnewf

I am thinking that the " leave the wheel on the bandmill instructions " are specific to changing them on a Woodmizer.

The video on YouTube where the guy removes the wheel is on a Timberking. I have a Baker and I know there is not enough room to do all that prying and blocking on the machine. I,m not saying it can,t be done but I know it will be easier of machine in a bench vice.

Quebecnewf

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: Quebecnewf on April 07, 2016, 04:47:28 AM
I am thinking that the " leave the wheel on the bandmill instructions " are specific to changing them on a Woodmizer.

The video on YouTube where the guy removes the wheel is on a Timberking. I have a Baker and I know there is not enough room to do all that prying and blocking on the machine. I,m not saying it can,t be done but I know it will be easier of machine in a bench vice.

Quebecnewf

Yes Newf the instructions are specific to the WM LT40HDG28 and would apply to the Super as well. Not sure on other WM models.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

doug olsen

is not the 57 an inch longer?  Making an easier install ??
LT 15/portable trlr., 580 Case hoe/thumb, JD 570 Skidsteer (bkn.) 500 Rubicon quad

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