leveling tracks

[rvrdivr]

I have just had a new slab poured for my saw mill and when I bolted the tracks down, it looked like a roller coaster. I had the tracks sitting on pieces of 2x6's so I could have a gap between them and the concrete to blow the dust out. It's obvious I'll have to added shims but how do I get it perfectly level? The track is 21 feet long.

I was wonder what others have done to correct this problem?

Thanks,
 Brian

[Buzz-sawyer]

Well it would of been perfect if they poured your concrete level...now the fun begins......I would invest in a small laser level and a rotating base....just set it on an adjacent board or brick in your yard , then shoot grade!! Find the high point of the slab by measuring from a tape measure to the light beam (from slab) Then use metal spacers cut to custom fit the varying heights, wood will dissapoint you pretty soon, It''ll work for ye ;) 8)





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[Bruce_A]

Set the end level with each other and pull a string between them. Shim the rails straight to the string.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Believe if I were to use metal spacers, I would use Stainless. The acid in the sawdust will eat that steel.

[jgoodhart]

I assume your tracks have holes to bolt them down, put studs in the concrete with a nut under and above and use them like push pull to level your track using a transit.  When the tracks are level grout them in place.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Bruce are you sayin to strech string the length of the mill and shim off the string... ??? ???

in 20 feet a string sags 1/2 easily streched very tight............
No offense intended...............but that wont work ;)

How long is your mill going to be river?

[beenthere]

If the laser isn't available, then pulling high test fishing line tight will likely have less sag than string to measure from.

[beerguy]

I picked up a laser level to align my bandwheels with, it was 100 bucks and accurate to 1/4" at 100 feet. Make sure that you spend enough to get an accurate laser, if you go that route. The cheap ones are accurate to as much as 1/2 inch at 20 feet.

[Arthur]

water has a natural leveling so you could always flood the area to get a level.

alternatly you could do what we do with swimming pools and use a large bore hose with clear plastic hose on each end.  when filled with water this will give you an exact level to work from and is flexible enough to work anywhere.  

Just remember that the longer the hose the more time it takes to settle when moved. ;D

[shopteacher]

My brother is a retired marine machinist and said to align the engine shaft on the boats they stretch piano wire to work off of.

[Bruce_A]

beerguy;  If your string sags in 20', you are either using the wrong string or drinking too much beer.  And a water level is the most accurate way by far.  But for twenty feet a whiskey stick will work in the proper hands. good luck.

[JoeyLowe]

When setting concrete forms, we use string all the time up to 60' or sometimes more with little problem. ( , Guess that's why slabs are hard to level,  :D) String will tell you real quick where you need to concentrate your efforts.

My vote is with flooding the entire area.  Would make it easier to float the logs onto the deck and would solve the fella's problem in the other thread about removing large beams from the mill.  Would keep everything clean too.

[rvrdivr]

Buzz, the tracks are 21 feet long.

Flooding the area sounds like a great idea :D only problem is my land won't flood unless we get one of those 40 day rains :D. By then my tracks better be straight so I can cut lumber for my ark ;D

Tried the string already. It sagged. :( Hear piano wire works good.

Thanks all

[Tom]

If you pull that nylon net twine real tight between two solid posts, it shouldn't sag in 21 feet.  Least not enough to matter.  It's used to level concrete floors and run concrete blocks true.  Gotta pull it tight though.

[jgoodhart]

Go rent a transit, everything will be level with in a cats wisker and both tracks will be at the same height from end to end.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Hey rvrdvr
Its really simple , spend 50-75 bucks on a cool tool 8) or rent a transit for the day maybe 30???
I realize string is used for ruff ideas in ruff construction, but we want that baby level , eh? I ran  a 60 foot track for my mill and each pier is within a 1/16"-1/8" and it matters in my sawmills operation....Maybe you band sawyers dont need it so accurate, then just use a level and straight edge to get it ,"Close enough"...
Since you are running 20 feet the error is LESS it is totally about how level you want your roller coaster ;) :D :D
There is no way a string wire or anthing will not sag.. .its the gravity thing ;)..........I tried the string thing ONCE 23 years ago when starting out in construction....I remember being amazed that when I streched ANYTHING then ran a sight transit down it ....there were no 2 measurements the same...except beginig and end..(Well technically they did measure the same at the identical spots in the opposing sagging wire) the longer the run the greater the sag.
this.could make for some interesting boards.

Oh, I do have and use a zercon water level for going around corners and findind level...they work...but are tedious and a bit in accurate...

[D._Frederick]

If you are looking for + or -  1/32 inches in twenty ft or better, don't use anything that gravity can pull down. An optical system or a lazer would be my choice. If you have a precision level and a 8 ft straight edge, would be a better choice than a string. I used this method to set up our No 2 American.

[Murf]

I helped a friend make a slab for his last year. We set 8 pieces of SS tubing down into the slab in 2 lines, 4 per side.

Then he mounted the mill on 8 pieces of threaded rod slipped into the tube. A pair of nuts just bigger than the tubing on each rod forms an adjustable leg, when set the second nut locks the first from moving.

It could easily be done afterwards by just drilling down into the slab and setting the tubes with quick set.

[Bruce_A]

Turn the saw on edge if you need it closer than .030 inch.  Nobody I know can see any closer than that on wet wood.

[Fla._Deadheader]

   To kinda quote Tom, A sawmill is for breaking logs down. A PLANER is for making them into lumber. Or sumpin like dat. : :D :D  If you have to have that mill dead on, How are ya gonna esplane them wavy cuts that ya WILL make??? Can't blame the tracks then     ;D ;D

  We use a string all the time. If gravity pulls a string that bad, yer never gonna pick up them boards.  ;)

[Buzz-sawyer]

The funny thing is ..............

the longer I pick up them boards, and the longer that ole' string is ......the lower we both sag , :D :D :D

[rvrdivr]

FDH'er, I don't plan on pickin up the long heavy stuff...that's for my tractor to do :D
Being an old man of 38, I need to be careful what I try to pick up.  ;D

On another note, I bought a transit, or elevation level scope type thingy, and am waiting on another warm body to help shim those tracks. I like the idea of having the tracks several inches off the cement so I can blow out the dust. I was using 2x6's and was going to shim off that. I hear what you all are saying about breaking a log down letting the planer finish it, but how close should I get? 1/32, 1/16 off OK?

Thanks

[DanG]

Get it just as straight as you can. Level don't mean nuthin, but straight does.  Get all four corners, and all points in between on the same plane, and you're home free. 8)  It's downright frustratin' to poke a board in the planer, hoggin' off all it will take, then be planin' air before it's halfway through. Worse yet, ya put the thin end in, and bog the whole rig down before ya get to the other end. :-/

String will work just fine, long as ya get the kind that won't stretch. Stretchy string will sag if it ain't but a foot long.

[hillbilly]

                 When you siad leveling scope you werent talking about an eye level were you, they don't have a tri pod or a stand you have to free hand them, we use them all the time at work for checking grade in the bottoms of ditches to make sure of drainedge. They are handy but they are'nt close enough for what you are doing .I would try renting a laser level you can run one fo those all by your self ;) that is if your better half is'nt around ;D  

                     hillbilly

[redpowerd]

are those 2x6s you mention steel or of the pine variety? dont think you want wood under your mill.

[rvrdivr]

Those 2x6's are pressure treated pine. I'm fixin to put a roof over the whole thing here soon. I was thinking the wood would be ok if not in the weather. From what you all are saying though, I may take a ride down to the welding shop and see what I can find for metal feet then shim off that.

The elevation level I got is called a builders level. Comes with a scope and tripod. I actually bought it a month ago for something else so I'll try it on these tracks. If this don't work I'll try the lazer level.

Thanks

[jgoodhart]

The level you have will work just fine. Laser type transits aren't real accurate unless you are spending alot of money, but they do make it easy for one person to check grades.

[D._Frederick]

RVR,

I have a cheapy ($300) builder lever, and find that it does have limits. I find that I get the best accaracy with it if I do not rotate the head. Set It up so that you are on the end of the track and that you ownly have to rotate it a few degrees. Check your results with a good quality level, all points should be level. If not make sure, the level on the builders level is calibrated correctly.

[hillbilly]

                  I just remembered something as far as string goes. Just out of hihg school I went to work for one of our sponsores putting together resaws,but after awhile they could see that I could weld or sowe what
                   So they put me in what they called special progects to build miny scraggs and such ,to build a frame  or to line one up a string line was used much of the time,not at long distance though.
hillbilly

[Buzz-sawyer]

I use a string or a wire to line things up ........viewed from the top , it will be near perfect...........if the wind isnt blowin......... :D

[rvrdivr]

Thanks everyone for your input. I finally got them tracks level!  

I used the builders level scope and got the tracks to within 1/32 of an inch. I'll check it again after I load a few big logs onto it. I found some 2x3 inch tube with a 1/4 wall at the local welding shop. I cut it up into twenty, 6 inch pieces with my sawsall, (yeah it was a job but all I had at the time), and used large washers and flat bar to make the shims. I wanted the feet rather than just shimming the tracks right off the concrete so I can blow out the dust better. here are a few pics


These are the feet I cut and used.



Here's the tracks after I leveled them. Each "foot" has a bolt down into the concrete. Some of the feet had to be shimmed more than a 1/2 inch. Nice concrete work huh?  :(



Here's a picture of my new slab. I am in the process of getting a roof over this soon.



This is a picture of what was there before the new slab was poured. Big difference huh?  :D

Thanks again for the help and suggestions

[rbarshaw]

I know you got it level and all now but, I don't have mine level, I have it straight, like DanG says. I have mine to slope down so the mill helps itself thru the log, this works fine, and anything to reduce the labor is good.  8)

[rvrdivr]

With all 20 points level it is straight. straight as an arrow ;D

[Buzz-sawyer]

Thats good,cause before it was crooked, crooked like a politician............ :D