More Hillbilly Logging - log arch and dolly use

[WV Sawmiller]

    As I have mentioned I use an ATV and log arch to retrieve logs off my steep mountain property. With larger logs I use a rear dolly. I cut several dying ash trees over the last few days and today I moved them to my sawing pile. Below are pictures of the process.



 

Gear prep - hooked up log arch to 4 wheeler, dolly suspended on the arch for transport, logrite cant hook strapped on and Sampson (my Rat terrier) loaded up to come help.


 
Drive to the log and position it for first lift. Note the slope I am dealing with.


 
I pull out the cable from the winch on my log arch and wrap it around one end of the log.


 
I winch in and lift the log. In some case I manually pull or push the light weight log arch one way or another to center it on the log.

 
I lift the log as high as possible.

 
I slide the dolly under the log. With a big log this is difficult at times to get enough height.


 
I connect and tighten a ratchet strap to hold the log on the rear dolly. Then lower the log and disconnect the cable from the winch. I move the rig to the other end.


 
I wrapped a chain around the log, connected the winch cable to the chain and drive forward to line up the log with the center of the arch.

 
I lift the end of the log and connect the chain to a short chain on the arch to release the strain on the winch during transport.


 
I drive off with the log in tow to the new site. This is a small log shown. Earlier I had already towed a 14'X 26" diameter log I estimate weighed over 2500 lbs and severely taxed my nerves and equipment. At the log pile I lower the lifted end above my pile to be sawed, move the arch forward, loosen the ratchet strap, then roll the log over with my logrite freeing my dolly to repeat the process.


 
For the smaller, shorter logs a simpler, faster method is to just roll the log over the winch cable at the center of balance and lift it to the top of the arch then drive off with it perpendicular to the arch. At the end I just lower the log until I get slack the release the cable hook and roll the log downhill and repeat.

[paul case]

 

[thecfarm]

I always had a helper too. But he is gone now. I was always worried I would drop a tree on him,but I never did.

[Sixacresand]

I like your set up, WV Sawmiller, especially the 4 wheel drive four wheeler. You probably need it in those those hills.  My setup is similar, but here in the flatlands, I can get by with a 2 wheel drive Craftsman tractor. 

 

[WV Sawmiller]

I like your set up, WV Sawmiller, especially the 4 wheel drive four wheeler. You probably need it in those those hills.  My setup is similar, but here in the flatlands, I can get by with a 2 wheel drive Craftsman tractor.

6Acre&,

   I like your rig and see why you don't need a dolly when using it. I'm afraid it would be too heavy and too long for me to tow around our slopes and between my trees with my ATV. I've towed 25+ foot long logs with my rig. The big heavy stuff gets real hairy. I generally drag really big stuff a ways with cable and snatch blocks till I get them off the worst of the slopes. I guess we each build and adapt what we have to our particular needs and experiences.

[sandsawmill14]

i like seeing the way yall handle logs with the small equipment being raised on a farm  we always had a tractor and horse or mules so i never had to do anything like that. we used the horses alot when it was wet or just wanted to. 1 good horse that is used to being worked can pull a 16-18" log with no problems as the logs get bigger just add another horse with 3 being the biggest hitch we ever worked i did see a guy logging with 2 arches with 2 teams of drafts and  had a hood knuckle boom and hauling with a semi truck & trailer he said they averaged 2 loads a day in good timber i was never that fast :-\

[Kbeitz]

I added one thing... Brakes...



 



 

[Kbeitz]

A big log will push like crazy...

[sandsawmill14]

the ones they were using with the horses only picked up one end so the log was dragging ground to help keep log from pushing them ??? do yall pick up the entire log to make it easier to pull or to be more low impact or some other reason ??? i have only been on steep grades a few times but you have to watch without the arch or it will run over you especially if you have to turn a little across the slope to miss a stump or something but you guys already know that ;)

[WV Sawmiller]

SS14 & Kbeitz,

   With really big logs I often do just use the arch on the front end without any dolly and let the back drag to act as a brake. The arch helps keep the logs from rolling sideways. My ground is so steep and currently so damp brakes would not hold anyway. If the log jackknifes too badly on the way down it may hang up on a tree, rock or stump and I sometimes have to lower the log, disconnect the arch and reposition then reconnect for another pull. Another reason a lightweight arch is critical to my operation.

   On horse logging I think they sometimes used a skid plate under the front to keep the log from getting hung on roots and rocks. Sometimes a chain of 2-3 logs was made hooking the logs end to end and several would be pulled at the same time. My neighbor I bought my horse from used to horse log some and he'd leave several limbs on the sides of first log to help clear the brush away from a path. To protect the horse the rig had what was called a Gee hook (a quick disconnect arrangement) and if it was too steep and the log started to slide the operator yelled Gee and the horse stepped to the right, the hook disconnected and the log slid past the horse. Without the Gee hook the horse could have broken his leg. Experienced logging horses would automatically step to the right if they felt slack in the pull.

   I have heard with real experienced logging horses the owner would be at the top at the landing and a helper, sometimes the wife, would be at the bottom. Operator on top would hook up the logs and send the horse down alone. At the bottom the helper disconnected and hung the chains on the hames on the horses collar and sent the horse back up alone. Two people ran the whole operation with the horse making the trips up and down alone all day. That would be a sight to watch and really make you love your horse.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Below is the big ash log I moved before taking the previous pictures. About 26" diameter and 14'6" ash log. Next in line for milling. Logs this big are hard to lift high enough to get the dolly on. Sometimes have to lift one end, place a pivot near the center and push down to raise the other end, attach dolly, re- lift and drive away. I had to wait 2 weeks before the ground dried out enough to move this one. Too heavy for 4 wheeler, tried truck, too heavy/wet for truck, but finally when dried a bit able to use ATV from new position.


 

[dboyt]

Kbeitz, that is an impressive log arch.  You didn't mess around with a cheap winch, and even have a place for the chain saw.  Great way to pull out the big 'uns.

[WV Sawmiller]

I always had a helper too. But he is gone now. I was always worried I would drop a tree on him,but I never did.

cfarm,

   I once cut a big poplar on one of my goats. I checked before I started cutting and nothing around. Don't know where she came from. I rushed over and cut it off her thinking I'd broken her back. She got up and limped off and brought and raised twins a month later.

   She had more lives than a cat. Years later she reared up on a tree, foot slipped and she got front leg caught in a fork. May have been there a day or two before wife found her. She limped and carried that leg several months, swelling finally went down and she regained use of it. Years later son noticed her standing by a small tree alone. Had been there a couple days. She was nearly mute anyway so nobody heard her. He went up to check and found she had piece of electric fence wire wrapped around her foot and was tied to the tree. He cut her free and she rushed to get a drink.  Got okay from that. Year or so later son jumped in the 4WD truck and took off, heard a loud thump, looked back and saw Gumdrop rolling head over heels where he had straddled her. She had got out and was resting in shade in front of truck and he came in from the rear and did not see her. Somewhat addled but otherwise unharmed. High clearance from 4WD saved her I guess. She finally died of old age many years later.

[mart]

Great arches guys. I need to get busy and build one for my 4 wheeler.

[Magicman]

Sounds like Gumdrop had more lives that a cat.  What a story.   :P

[WV Sawmiller]

Sounds like Gumdrop had more lives that a cat.  What a story.   :P

   Yes, she was last goat I bought. I got rid of all but her and her last nanny kid but it got grown and the nanny kid would come in heat every month or so and get out and upset the dogs so I traded her to a neighbor for an old barren nanny for company for Gumdrop. I know neighbor figured old Granny was about to die but I wormed her and fed her good and she kept growing and finally delivered a set of twins. Neighbor saw me a few weeks later and told me he would not have traded if knew she was pregnant and I told him "Yes, and I would not have wanted her if I had known." I guess he figured I'd give him one of the kids or pay extra. I am sure Granny would never have made it through the winter at his place. After several more years all died and last was Granny's wether kid who stayed with my horse and mule a couple years till he got down last year and I had to put him down.

   Gumdrop lost one litter of kids then adopted another when that nanny died. I tried to raise a fawn on her but she would not nurse it so I had to milk her then give the milk to Spot. The goats never did like the deer and bullied it so I had to feed her separately. She ran wild and played with wild deer but came home for her bottle. Left with an old doe after we had her a few weeks but returned 2 days later. Deer would take her but not nurse her and too young to be on her own.

[thecfarm]

gumdrop,had someone watching over her.  ;D My goats stories are nothing like that.

[jmouton]

hey  vw sawmiller    ,  i made a dolly like yours but i dont  how you know  to keep it going straight ,  i use a 85 hp  tractor  with a log arch , and i was pullin out some 30 inch oak 17 ft long and it was tough , i had to drag about a half mile to our landing , so i thought about it, so i made a dolly ,  well the dolly made it about 100 ft and then went sideways into a frozen creek , not good ,, so how do you make it go straight ???


                                                                                        jim

[Dakota]

jmouton,

One way is to put a small tongue on the tag axle.  I did this on mine with the addition of a spike welded on vertically, so it is pulled up into the log when you strap the tongue to the log.  This keeps the tongue from slipping around while you transport the log.

[WV Sawmiller]

hey  vw sawmiller    ,  i made a dolly like yours but i dont  how you know  to keep it going straight ,  i use a 85 hp  tractor  with a log arch , and i was pullin out some 30 inch oak 17 ft long and it was tough , i had to drag about a half mile to our landing , so i thought about it, so i made a dolly ,  well the dolly made it about 100 ft and then went sideways into a frozen creek , not good ,, so how do you make it go straight ???


                                                                                        jim

Jim,

    Using a short tongue like Dakota suggests is a good method. In the cradle of mine I have a short length of channel in the cradle of my dolly that helps keep the wheels perpendicular to the length of the log which makes it go straight. It is not perfect and mine will sometimes off track a little but has not been enough I could not tow it where I wanted it. If this length was longer and also strapped down it would be better for that purpose but would also make it harder to place the dolly under the log especially where it is large diameter and I don't have much working room under there.



 
Look close and you can see the angle in the center of the cradle that helps keep the log aligned.

[alanh]

I acquired from a buddy the "store bought" woodmizer one and it works awesome. I use it behind a quad or side by side. It has the tapered pipe with a hoop so you throw it over the log, hook the chain short, driving away lifts the front of the log. Also  has the hoops in front of the wheels so it pivots around trees no problem.

[Kbeitz]

I acquired from a buddy the "store bought" woodmizer one and it works awesome. I use it behind a quad or side by side. It has the tapered pipe with a hoop so you throw it over the log, hook the chain short, driving away lifts the front of the log. Also  has the hoops in front of the wheels so it pivots around trees no problem.

Pictures.... You know the rules... Ha ha.

[Keith Shirley]

            I built this arch with material from the local scrap yard and a couple spindles and tires from my brother. Also built slab rack to make it a little easier to cut slabs into fire wood or to bundle and store, burn whatever.


     
                                                                                                                           

[WV Sawmiller]

Keith,

   Good looking rig. I was wondering if would be too long and too heavy for my application but looking at your location I assume we are working similar terrain.

[alanh]

I acquired from a buddy the "store bought" woodmizer one and it works awesome. I use it behind a quad or side by side. It has the tapered pipe with a hoop so you throw it over the log, hook the chain short, driving away lifts the front of the log. Also  has the hoops in front of the wheels so it pivots around trees no problem.

Pictures.... You know the rules... Ha ha.
Yep, I`ll get some and post `em up.

[1-2 Tree]

I going to add brakes to my log arch I have been pulling my log arch with rhino and when you get a big load going down hill it gets a little scary. I have a set of electric trailer brakes the Rhino is going to look funny with a brake controller but its getting one put on it .

[WV Sawmiller]

   I wouldn't have a clue how to begin to add brakes to mine or how I would even operate them. If I felt/saw I needed the extra drag I would just leave the rear dolly off. I often do that anyway especially on the steeper slopes.

   One technique I have used and should use more is to lift the front end of the log, put a fulcrum under it, lower the log and bear down on front end or lift the rear to put the dolly under it and cinch it down. Then lift the front again and remove the fulcrum and tow the log. Depending on placement even a small fulcrum will sometimes allow me to lift the rear high enough to place the dolly.

[Kbeitz]

Works for me...



 



 

[tjhammer]

wv sawmiller

I got to ask does your goats and horse have legs longer on one side than the other,my land is like yours and my stock does better with one side longer
tj

[Brad_bb]

I want to build a tail dolly like Dakota and WV sawmiller.  I have a logrite arch for the front.  Where would you guys get the axle and wheels to use?  I've searched Craigslist locally and don't see anything.

[kelLOGg]

I used mobile home axles and wheel assemblies for both of my arches. You can get them almost free. There are pics in my gallery.
Bob

[azmtnman]

I want to build a tail dolly like Dakota and WV sawmiller.  I have a logrite arch for the front.  Where would you guys get the axle and wheels to use?  I've searched Craigslist locally and don't see anything.

LOVIN' THIS THREAD! Stories of old--both entertaining and informative and your pics.

Brad, try the rear axle of an old front wheel drive car. Lots of times the hub assembly bolted on the axle. The Chevy Cavalier had axles like that.
If you're not a hillbilly fabricator like some of us, you can get spindles and the like at TSC.

[WV Sawmiller]

wv sawmiller

I got to ask does your goats and horse have legs longer on one side than the other,my land is like yours and my stock does better with one side longer
tj

   Yeah and we can only grow square watermelons and pumpkins or they will roll away when they get about half grown.

   My property rises over 450' on 43 acres. I tell folks if I could lay it flat I'd have 80 acres. I'm to the point now I check which side of the hill a deer is on before I decide to shoot it or not. If it means dragging him up out of the holler I just wait till another day when it is on my side of the hill.

I want to build a tail dolly like Dakota and WV sawmiller.  I have a logrite arch for the front.  Where would you guys get the axle and wheels to use?  I've searched Craigslist locally and don't see anything.

Brad,

   My dolly axle is schedule 80 pipe. I think 2". I bought my wheels at TSC. They have a 1" bearing so I bought 1" X 6" bolts and nuts. The welder lady evidently had a press and put the bolt head in the pipe, pressed 2 sides square till the bolt head stopped the press then she welded it. I put a 1" washer on the outside of the wheel shaft and double nut to keep the wheel tight on the axle. Outside width is 28". The cradle is just a couple of short pieces of angle iron welded into a V with holes drilled in the top of each side to connect the ratchet strap end hooks. A short tongue welded on to the axle will help keep the dolly running true.

[grouch]

   I wouldn't have a clue how to begin to add brakes to mine or how I would even operate them. If I felt/saw I needed the extra drag I would just leave the rear dolly off. I often do that anyway especially on the steeper slopes.

[...snip...]

Your hills and hollers look a lot like mine. ;)

How about some runners to fit your rear dolly? That would add sideways stability going across slopes, maintain drag for up or down, and keep the log out of the dirt. Just pull 'em out from under the wheels when rolling is again appropriate.

That last photo with the log up high and crosswise would worry me on these hills. It looks too tippy. I'm chicken -- I like low and slow.

I made my log arch to be pulled behind my tractor and to hold logs as long as I anticipate needing to carry, but (and that's a big but) it has yet to be tested in the woods or on hills. It's gonna get a Kbeitz brake system before getting off of civilized land.



Brad_bb: Surely there's a salvage yard near you. Sometimes auto shops have junk spindles they're happy to give away. Not suited for going down the highway, but still strong. The guy who runs a salvage yard a few miles from me says he has no use (no market) for those space-save spares.

[Brad_bb]

I can weld up anything I need to, TIG and MIG.  Just don't have access to the kind of "junk" I'd need to build from.  I'll check out the TSC route and see how much.

[ozarkgem]

I can weld up anything I need to, TIG and MIG.  Just don't have access to the kind of "junk" I'd need to build from.  I'll check out the TSC route and see how much.
[/quote
If you don't have access to junk maybe you should move.

[Dakota]

I bought two axle spindles that were made to fit into square tubing.  You can also get the 1 1/4" spindle that fits inside a pipe.  The matching hubs with bearings are also sold here: 

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_trailers-towing+trailer-axle-parts+trailer-spindles

[trapper]

A lot of mention on the forum lately of a company that the boss does not like because they make a knockoff of logrite tools who sponsor this forum we enjoy.

[WV Sawmiller]

Brad,

   Below are close ups of my dolly. May be a little grainy but hopefully you can see enough detail to see how it was built. The pneumatic tires and all hardware came from TSC. The pipe for the axle and angle iron were scrap.



 

You can see where the pipe used for an axle was pressed flat to hold the head of the 1"X6" bolt with a washer/spacer(by the lb TSC hardware).


 
This is the threaded end of the bolt where it comes through the bearing on the wheel.


 
This is the angle iron cradle the logs rests in. See holes drilled in for ratchet strap hook. The short piece of angle iron in the V helps keep it tight against the log. A short (1' or so) tongue would do the same thing and might work better.

[gimpy]

            I built this arch with material from the local scrap yard and a couple spindles and tires from my brother.

Just finished my Arch (I will get pictures tomorrow, I promise) It looks so much like yours it's amazing. Just mounted the 3K winch and battery/box yesterday. The only thing left is to add wiring to charge the battery off the 4x4s.

Got ears out looking for an old (good steel) truck hood to use to skid them without dragging the wood.

[gimpy]

I can weld up anything I need to, TIG and MIG.  Just don't have access to the kind of "junk" I'd need to build from.  I'll check out the TSC route and see how much.

I'm always looking for old boat trailers. Picked up three over the last few years. That is my source for axles.

[WV Sawmiller]

I can weld up anything I need to, TIG and MIG.  Just don't have access to the kind of "junk" I'd need to build from.  I'll check out the TSC route and see how much.

I'm always looking for old boat trailers. Picked up three over the last few years. That is my source for axles.

Gimpy,

   I know this is mostly off road use but if Oregon is anything like WV you better keep good records for the source of the boat trailer axles if you ever intend to register and tag them. WV has made it difficult to register trailers and such without detailed origin records. I have turned down buying a couple of good looking trailers because they did not have a title and too much hassle to register as homemade.

[sublime68charger]

WV sawmiller,

thanks for chiming in on my atv arch thread and I read yours a few time's great work you are doing that is for sure.

regard's
Sublime.

[gimpy]

WV - We're pretty lucky here. No tags for such things. Don't even require one for my mobile Wood-Mizer. No tags on my splitter or my welding trailer either now that I think about it. Oregon is really friendly, if you don't need a job. Not bad for retirement.

[gimpy]

I wish I had the talent to create from scratch what you guys create. I only had to slightly modify mine. Still am.

[WV Sawmiller]

I wish I had the talent to create from scratch what you guys create. I only had to slightly modify mine. Still am.

Gimpy,

   You need to check out Kbeitz threads for the creativity ideas. I might be able to draw off what I think will work but I am not mechanically inclined to weld and fabricate and such. If anything I will se something somebody else has made and figure out how to modify it to fit my needs. I guess as long as it works in the end the result is the same.