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big white oak and hickory leaners on a side hill

Started by Mountaynman, March 15, 2016, 07:24:14 PM

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Mountaynman

400-500 ft to a tree some with heavy leans on sidehill deeper face cut is what I was thinking just wanted some opinions before I split a bunch of them tryin different approaches always bore cut  but have some set on the saw by the hinge then have to grab another saw and risk some fiberpull or stump pull any opinions helpful thanks guys
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

sandsawmill14

if its got much lean you will never catch up with the fall with just a deep notch on a tree that size  :) the only way i know how to cut on like that is bore in from the notch and leave the sapwood for the hinge and the tree will be standing on 3 "legs" when you turn it loose one on each side of the face cut and the holding wood on the back. that is the only way i know how to stop the heart pull but we have cut a few 40+" maple and red oaks on my place like that and it worked well :)  but i am no professional feller and im sure someone smarter than me will be along shortly ;D :D :D :D
main thing is be careful those are dangerous the only thing worse imo is a deep creek bank :o
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Firewoodjoe

Deeper face cut won't help. Wedges bore and proper hinge. If it's to much of a strain the power help would need to be used. A lot of times a tree will go three ways. So if u can go side ways to compensate. Be safe.

sandsawmill14

i have the same problem with cutting to much and setting it down on the saw :-[ the way i solved that is i dont go to the woods without 2 saws :) good thing is unless you misjudged something a bore cut will just turn over when you turn it loose instead of rolling off the stump or something so it easy to get the saws out of the way ;D
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Ed_K

 Along with boring the center make sure you have at least a 70 deg notch too. 90s better.
Ed K

Mountaynman

almost always bore in from the front on trees this big cut with a 24" bar too trim the sides of the hinge just these trees are really tall 90' on a steep side hill below a rock bluff most will be skidded from the top straight out to a cornfield bunch pile trying to save as many 12" maples as we can nice lookin wood never been cut since the cows went away hundred years ago fast growin should be a bunch of veneer just lookin for some more tips thanks guys
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

sandsawmill14

 should have said that i cut a block out for the notch (i think the 90* ed is talking about) but anyway it is 2 cross cuts into the tree 6-8 inches apart and the bore in at 90* to connect the 3 cuts and remove the block. this keeps notch from closing and making tree try to lift off stump breaking hinge before you want it to :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Mountaynman

always use a standard 90degree notch cut usually no more than the bar width deep especially on steep ground but these trees are really big and heavy luckly no leaves yet while tryin to save the regen gonna be fun sometimes we have used that deeper face on the really big timber makes it easier to wedge over not moving as much of the tree all gets clipped off at the mill anyways with the big butt swell these trees up here have
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

sandsawmill14

best advice i can give you is be careful and good luck :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Mountaynman

oh I'm sure ill split one or have one roll on the stump and split when it lands wrong the leaders are big and long on these trees not much choice on some as to where they are going even with wedges be safe yourself will try and put some pics up when we get rollin if it ever stops raining here on a sand flat by the river so one day of sunshine and good to go frost left last week never even made a mark unloading the buggy drivin across the guys lawn
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

sandsawmill14

sound like a good job site other than the steep part  :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

CCC4

I cut steep ground nearly 7 days a week and always cut White Oak, Red Oak, Hickory etc. There are 3 ways to cut it to eliminate problems and fiber pull...I will tell you 2 of them.

Cut your kerf back to over 60%, throw a Humbolt that meets your corners then throw in a conventional snipe and bore the heart out from the face.

Cut your kerf back 60%, throw a conventional face purposely not meeting your corners (meaning, cut it short, just enough for a little direction)...reason for this is the face will slowly close at the unmet corners and slow down your release while you are making your backcut. Be sure to gut your heart from the face on this cut also.

Not to be a jerk...but please don't use wedges on head leaning timber on a slope...it doesn't need any extra push to get it to leave off the stump...the right timber will take your head off. Examples... Ash, White Oak, Water Oak, Hickory etc. They will blow so dang fast you won't even know what happened.

Be safe

treeslayer2003

block face at 50%, gut the heart, back up quickly.

timberlinetree

Sharp,big,fast cutting saw and as described proper notch configuration. Work safe!
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

coxy

if your afraid of splitting them put a chain or cable around the butt about 12-14in up from your cut

CCC4


John Mc

I have used wedge occasionally on a heavy side leaner, not to tip the tree over, but to keep it from crushing the hinge.  I cut my notch, bore cut behind and parallel to the notch to set the hinge, then start cutting out toward the back. While there is still plenty of wood left holding up the tree, I lightly tap a wedge in just behind the hinge on the side it's leaning toward. This is just to give the hinge a little support and keep the tree from settling down and pinching a saw or partially crushing the hinge. (Leaving the hinge a good bit thicker might accomplish the same thing as far as supporting the tree, but that increases the chance of the trunk splitting or getting fiber pull or even a barber chair.)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

thecfarm

I have only cut a few trees on steep ground. My Father called it a horseback,just about take a bowl and place it on the ground. Might of covered 500 feet round. We was cutting white pine. My Father knew what was going to happen,not me. That tree left the stump and all I heard was a whooshing noise as it flew through the air. Than it hit the ground. WOW!!! What a sight and sound.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Mountaynman

ccc4 thanks for the info not sure what u mean by 60% kerf just different lingo I guess got 38 cut tday taller than my estimate most are 50-55 to crotch with two or three 20 ft sticks of firewood and 30-40 ft of top glad my dozer man had two saws tday too had three pinched in one tree only had one blow on the stump couple spin and split but most logs are intact quite a wrkout after not cutting for two wks runnin a souped up 372xp 8 tooth with 24" 73lgx84 flat filed went gd not too the rough part yet though
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

Plankton

Out of curiosity what techniques were you using on the stump mostly?

I don't cut a lot of hardwood but on heavy leaners I put steep and deep faces in gut the heart and either coos bay or bore cut depending on the tree.

Mountaynman

thin face cut clip the edge of the hinge on the side with the lean bore in behind hinge from that side go back out front take the heart out go around other side clip hinge finish boring to the holding wood light wedge tap on lean side trip off the holding wood back up and watch the show dense stand lots of top movement of adjacent trees mostly little sticks flyin everywhere they all hit the ground had to split most trees in half to bunch out with dozer only skiddin 100 yards
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

CCC4

I wish I was closer. I may not use the politically correct falling methods, but in this line of work you learn from mistakes. Unfortunately some peoples luck runs short. Three things happen in a falling career...you get fired for blowing up timber, you get killed or you learn and get good at it.

Wish I could be more help to ya, I hate to hear about someone struggling.

Mountaynman

not really struggling bub just always lookin for ideas to get better I am guilty of not always bein politically correct either backcut sometimes especially in maple get tired of blowin tips all the time round here in frozen maple u can blow a tip a day bore cutting every tree just hickory is hard enough to cut anyways usually only leave a half inch hinge and chase that when there isn't any danger of stump roll I agree with you bub you either get gd at it are dead or in another line of work but love cutting that big timber it really adds up fast
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

RHP Logging

Red oak 40" across the hinge.  you can see the sweep in the stem.  She leaned pretty hard downhill.  Humboldt, Gut the face.  Back bar near side back to front.  Walk to other side. back bar from hinge to middle to back until she went.  I almost never bore anymore.  Modified Coos Bay back cuts are awesome when you get the hang of them.  Saves a lot of time, pinching, and general screwing around.  That and its fun to pull stumps!




There was a tiny bit of pull. 




Cleaned up. Works for white oak, hickory, ash, whatever. 






Buckin in the woods

CCC4

LOL! I'd know that snipe anywhere!! Glad to see ya! I'm calling you today...jus giving you the heads up mang. Stay safe!

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