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Dead Battery

Started by sawwood, March 09, 2016, 12:11:27 PM

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sawwood

We have a Norwood Mark 4 with a Honda 20hp engine. I don't know if the charging system is working
or not. I looked at the motor manual and don't see what the charging system puts out except for
20 Amp and 12 Volts. Does that system charge the battery like a alt would? I have charge the battery
and going to see what the voltage is when i get it running. Do any one know what i should see as to
volts and amps? The engine is a GX620 and has the 3 charging coils.

Sawwood
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

Kcwoodbutcher

If the battery is low you should see a little more than 14 volts. If it is charged you would see the battery voltage which should be about 12.6 volts.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

Ianab

With the engine running, and recharging the battery, the voltage should be ~14 volts. This is to force some current to flow back into the battery and recharge it.

With the engine off and no load, a charged 12V battery should drop back to about 12.6.

This is a general guideline for any "12V" lead acid battery.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

ladylake

 Yes  14volts when running and 12.6 when not running, if you battery is low  when it's running it may take a while to get up to 14 volts, it might start at 13 and go up to 134 gradually as it gets charged.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

sawwood

Thanks every one. That what I was thinking it should do. Just didn't know if that type of charging system was the same.

Sawwood
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

Magicman

Actually 12.73 is a fully charged 12 volt battery and 12.62 is a 90% 12 volt battery:  Battery Charge Chart

Your alternator should be pumping in ~14.5 volts.

The alarming thing is that if a 12 volt battery actually reads 12 volts, it is in deep trouble.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

47sawdust

A very nice feature is to add a voltage gauge to your system so you can instantly monitor your charging system.Have one on my tractor and on the sawmill.It is very re-assuring to see the gauge reading 14.5 volts when the motor is running with no load.Magicman had a post on adding a digital voltmeter to his mill.It's cheap and quick.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

dboyt

Most charging indicators on tractors and industrial equipment read amps instead of volts.  If positive, the battery is accepting a charge, if negative, it is discharging.  There are some meters for less than $15 that measure both.  Not a bad deal.  If the battery has been left for an extended period in the discharged state, you may need to replace it.  I put a cheap Harbor Freight solar charger on mine to keep it topped off. Seems to work.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

LeeB

How many think that setting a battery on concrete will cause it to discharge?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Magicman

"Old wives tale".  Sitting a battery on concrete will not make it discharge.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

LeeB

I agree 100% but you will never convince most of the folks that I live around that it is.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I never set a battery on concrete. But here is the low down.


http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/battery.asp
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

ncsawyer

I don't set them on the floor or ground either...its too far to have to bend back down to pick them up  ;D
2015 Wood-Mizer LT40DD35
Woodmaster 718 planer
Ford 445 Skip Loader

Kbeitz

Talking about dead batterys... well I'm not happy...
Not at all....

I bought a name brand battery from a well known store and put it in my truck.
It cost me $300.?? ... Lasted one week.
I took it back and they tested it and told me it was good.
I said i would be back for it in the morn and you can test it again.
They said they dont do it that way. I said that it would not hold a charge over night.
They said again we dont test it that way. They would not do anything about it.
I was stuck with a $300.?? dead battery... I'll sure not go back there again
I had bought all my batterys from the store for years... Not any more.
Sure wish I could brodcast the stores name but I know the rules.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

sawwood

Thursday i took my battery to a auto shop and had them charge my dead battery. There charger
will put 40 amps in it as my charger is only 4 amp charger. Took a hour and they said it was charged
up. Ask them if they could test it and they said they don't have any test equipment. So i took
the battery to a parts store i use and they said it was no good. I bought a new one 12v and 350cca
for the saw mill. Store said the battery was under warranty for 6 months. Friday i put the battery
in the mill and started it up and checked the volts as it was running and it was 12.65v. I think that
it is normal as the battery is new. Will be out to the mill Tuesday and will see what the battery reads
before i start it up. Thanks every one for the help, Dave that solar charger that you use is that the
small amp charger ?

Sawwood 
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

ladylake

  With a new battery that's charged up you should be around 14 volts when running, sounds like your charging system isn't working.   Also I'd bet your old battery was good as it took a hour to charge up on a 40 amp charger which is normal, parts stores sell battery's. Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ladylake

Quote from: Kbeitz on March 13, 2016, 09:02:09 PM
Talking about dead batterys... well I'm not happy...
Not at all....

I bought a name brand battery from a well known store and put it in my truck.
It cost me $300.?? ... Lasted one week.
I took it back and they tested it and told me it was good.
I said i would be back for it in the morn and you can test it again.
They said they dont do it that way. I said that it would not hold a charge over night.
They said again we dont test it that way. They would not do anything about it.
I was stuck with a $300.?? dead battery... I'll sure not go back there again
I had bought all my batterys from the store for years... Not any more.
Sure wish I could brodcast the stores name but I know the rules.


  Did you unhook the battery cable overnight and then try it in the morning,  could be something is drawing current overnight.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

sawwood

Steve we have a Norwood mill with a GX620 Honda engine, The manual says it has a 12 v 20amp
charging system so not sure what it should read at idle. I know most mill with a alt will show 14v
charging but with this type of system i am not sure. It has 3 coils under the flywheel with magnet.
I am going to check with a Honda repair shop to see what they say it should read. Lester

Sawwood
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

sawwood

Just talked to a repair shop and they said it should show 14V. They also gave me some ideas
where the trouble might be. I did find a post on here about a Honda gx620 no charging. First
is the fuse under the control box and that might be as we have had to jump start it lots of
time. I will read and reread that post and when i go out to the mill tomorrow i will have a good
idea where to start looking.

Sawwood.
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

ladylake

 Try and run it at least at fast idle when checking voltage, it could show low if idling real slow. Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Kbeitz

Quote from: ladylike on March 14, 2016, 07:21:22 AM
Quote from: Kbeitz on March 13, 2016, 09:02:09 PM
Talking about dead batterys... well I'm not happy...
Not at all....

I bought a name brand battery from a well known store and put it in my truck.
It cost me $300.?? ... Lasted one week.
I took it back and they tested it and told me it was good.
I said i would be back for it in the morn and you can test it again.
They said they dint do it that way. I said that it would not hold a charge over night.
They said again we dint test it that way. They would not do anything about it.
I was stuck with a $300.?? dead battery... I'll sure not go back there again
I had bought all my battery's from the store for years... Not any more.
Sure wish I could broadcast the stores name but I know the rules.


  Did you unhook the battery cable overnight and then try it in the morning,  could be something is drawing current overnight.   Steve

Yep... I can charge it up and pull it from what ever I got it hooked to and within 12 hours it wont crank a thing.
It's just not right that i cant get my money back. The store gets a whole lot of bad advertisement for me now.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ladylake

 I think its time to go over the stores head and talk to the manufacture.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Kbeitz

Quote from: ladylake on March 14, 2016, 06:24:28 PM
I think its time to go over the stores head and talk to the manufacture.   Steve

The store is BIG... Batterys are made for that store with there name on the battery.
I would have no idea where to go. I did ask to talk to the manager. They said it
would make no difference thats there policy. Never had problems with them in the past.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

landscraper

Kbeitz - if you feel you have a legitimate grievance with the quality of the battery tell them you are going to file the case in Small Claims Court and see if they change their mind about refunding your money.  Odds are they don't want to pay a manager for half a day to sit in court with a 50/50 chance of losing anyway.
Firewood is energy independence on a personal scale.

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