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Upgrade WM drag type band sharpener

Started by pineywoods, March 05, 2016, 08:46:23 PM

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pineywoods

I have used an old WM drag type sharpener for years. Mine came with a cam for the old old 13 deg blades, usable with 10 deg if you make multiple passes and do a few tweaks. Finally raked up courage enough to take a hand held grinder and re-profile the cam to an honest 10 degree. Eureka ! it worked  8)


 

That success gave me confidence to tackle the ultimate upgrade-conversion to a cbn wheel. Firs step is replace the wimpy 12 volt motor with a 1/3 hp 3600 rpm 110 ac motor. The junk department yielded a suitable motor, just a little larger, with mounting bolts through the end plate like the original. It bolted right on.


 

UH OH, the 3/8 shaft was the right size, but was 1/2 inch too short, not enough left for threads for the wheel nut. Did-assembled the motor and welded on a short piece of 38 rod. It bent from the welding stress,,,SSOOO cut that off and welded a piece of 1/2 inch (yeah, it crooked also) chucked the whole rotor in the lathe and turned it down to 3/8. Threaded the end for the wheel nut..Mount the cbn wheel and adjust the tilt of the motor so the wheel fits exactly down in the gullet of a mounted 10 deg blade.

Now comes the tricky part....I just happened to have another cam, specs unknown. Mount the new cam and rotate by hand until the blade pusher just barely drops off the edge of the next tooth. Mark the spot on the cam where the roller touches with a sharpie. this will make sure the grinder does not descend on top of the pusher fork. Rotate the cam slowly until the pusher fork completes it backward motion and moves forward until it not quite touches the front of the blade tooth. Mark the spot where the roller touches the cam.
The edge of the cam between those 2 marks will be ground down to allow the grinder head to descend on to the blade. How much to grind off?? It's called trial and error.


 

Continue to grind off the edge of the cam between the marks
a little at a time, rotatating the cam after each grind until the cbn wheel fully sets in the gullet of the blade. OH Yeah, leave the motor turned off while you're doing this..

A little bit of electrical work. Cut the leads from the old motor and connect them to the coil winding of a small 12 volt spst relay. Rout 110 volt power through the contacts of the relay to the new motor. I mounted the relay along with an external run capacitor for the motor in a junction box mounted on top of the original power box.


 

Works like a champ and I'm tickled. Now my blades are all sharp sharp with an exact 10 degree profile.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Peter Drouin

Good job. Are you going to use oil to clean the CBN when sharpening?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

pineywoods

I haven't decided about the coolant/lube. Right now, I am using a mix of water and machine shop cutting oil. I am thinking about water plus diesel plus detergent.
I know woodmizer recommends straight oil, I think mineral oil. Talked to some machine shop folks who use a lot of cbn tools. Their advice says it don't matter much as long as there's plenty of it to keep the wheel cool. Say that heat destroys the bond between the abrasive and the base metal. I bought the cbn wheel from rixsaw. An info sheet packed with it offers to re-plate my wheel at a considerable savings if and when I wear it out. Couple of things I have noticed. The cbn wheel is noticeably more agressive as compared to the aluminum oxide but leaves a smoother surface...May be my imagination, but it looks like blades sharpened with the cbn wheel leave a bunch less sawdust in the kerf...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Cutting Edge

pineywoods,

If you are going to use a petroleum based coolant, use 100% mineral oil (unscented baby oil).  Available at just about any feed store.  No fumes, no smoke and rather benign.  Has excellent detergent properties to keep the wheel surface clean... extremely important

Water based coolants are fine, but will turn funky like pond water in warmer temps.  The "scum" that grows is extremely sticky and will clog the wheel surface.  Some additives have an anti-bacterial agent in them, but in an open air environment, the effectiveness can be drastically reduced.

As mentioned in another thread, keep your coolant CLEAN.  The small coolant capacity of the LTAGA means you need to keep it as filtered as possible... how??  With magnets, and several of them.  Not just the two little ones like W-M supplies, you need more.  Clean them often !!  If not, you will will drastically reduce the usable life of the CBN coating.

Another upgrade you will want to do is the method of how coolant is sprayed onto the wheel.  The single hole in the clamp isn't sufficient enough to coat the entire wheel surface.  Coolant needs to be constantly sprayed on the entire surface and at a very high flow rate.  If not, heat will make the metal particles adhere and essentially "weld" themselves onto the surface.  Once that begins to happen, performance will be noticeably reduced.

Hope this helps.
"Winning an argument isn't everything, as long as you are heard and understood" - W.S.


Cutting Edge Saw Service, LLC -
- Sharpening Services
- Portable/Custom Milling and Slabbing
- On-Site Sawmill Maintenance/Repair Services

Factory Direct Kasco WoodMaxx Blades
Ph- (304) 878-3343

pineywoods

Thanks Cutting Edge. X2 on the magnets. I have a pair of computer hard drive magnets placed so that any fluid has to flow past them to reach the pump intake. I usually sharpen 5 or 6 blades at a time, then the fluid gets drained off and discarded, so it don't have time to grow stuff..My original pump gave up the ghost decades ago, I use a submersable aquarium pump which has enough flow to spray the wheel quite liberally..I have no idea about the expected life of a cbn wheel, but I have had several folks tell me that sharpening blades from just one mill, I likely won't see any problem. Since I made my own cam, I took pains to slope the profile so the wheel makes gradual contact with the blade and doesn't remain in hard contact. So far it's working just fine.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

fishpharmer

Pineywoods, impressive and inspiring modification! 
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Peter Drouin

When you go cbn, you ask yourself why did I not do this a long time ago.
The cbn takes all the guess work out of it, and you get a perfect job.
Good job pineywoods and welcome to the CBM club. :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

canadianwoodworks

I've done very similar to my 1993 lta sharpener, with some minor differences.

I spoke to Woodmizer, I had planned to order the cam off the new version for the CBN wheels, they said it would not fit but.............  We can sell you the one that they offered for the 1 month they offered upgrade parts for the LTA sharpener. So I purchased that and it bolted right on!

Next was the motor, I had a 1/3hp 3 phase 220 volt motor, bolted it on. Added some 12volt control relays to shut the motor off with the "stock" magnet shut off sensor.

Now as other stated, I felt the single hole was not good enough to coat the wheel in oil, so again I talked to woodmizer and ordered the old "upgrade" part which mounted right at the wheel, I added some piping to the stock pump and now it covers the wheel with oil!

So $200 motor, and about $30 spent with Woodmizer with a little modification I was able to convert a 25yr old tool into a full profile CBN sharpener.

I purchased the CBN oil from Woodmizer, I have 8 NEO magnets in the tray, and clean them off before each use.

When I sharpen it's usually 10+ blades at a time, yesterday was 27 blades in one shot!   Everything worked great.

I keep my wood shop exhaust hose directly behind the machine, as the fumes I do not like!

I might switch to mineral oil in the future, I was thinking I might try a different oil, thanks for the tip.

Oh don't forget the coffee can lid, wiper which pulls 99% of the oil off the blade as it moves around, keeing the oil in the tray.

You can see a video of the sharpener working here if you have Instagram.     https://www.instagram.com/p/BCi6uAEH5aA/?taken-by=canadianwoodworks




pineywoods

Quote from: Peter Drouin on March 07, 2016, 06:27:38 AM
When you go cbn, you ask yourself why did I not do this a long time ago.
The cbn takes all the guess work out of it, and you get a perfect job.
. :D :D

YUP, right after the first blade..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

petefrom bearswamp

Have you thought about offering the upgrade service to forum members?I am not that mechanically inclined.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

pineywoods

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on March 07, 2016, 10:29:57 AM
Have you thought about offering the upgrade service to forum members?I am not that mechanically inclined.
Maybe for 10 seconds, then my better judgement kicked in.. ;D Actually, I would enjoy helping out other ff members, but I just don't have the time. I'm supposed to be retired, but I have a BAD habit of taking on more projects than I have time for. About the best I can manage is to post with as much detail as I can...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

petefrom bearswamp

Oh dang, I was about to start a shipping crate.
tongue in cheek, Im still in FL until mid April.
BTW Piney I did modify my setter per your mod a few years ago but now use resharp for all except the Cooks I have and older WM blades I have done in the past.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Kbeitz

Put your magnets in small baggies. Turn the bag inside out to remove the grindings and throw it away.
Put a new bag on and put it back in the coolant.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

LeeB

Does anyone think this setup would work with a cooks grinder? The cooks has no coolant system although I suppose one could be rigged up.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Ox

I'm also curious if anyone has done the CBN upgrade to a Cooks Cat Claw sharpener.  This may be the way to go from what I've been reading.  I don't see why it wouldn't work straight away.  Fabbing a coolant/oil tray and a pump wouldn't be hard.  I guess the only question is if the CBN wheel will bolt on to the wheel shaft of the grinder with enough threads left for a good tightening.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

LeeB

The disc can be thinner in the center than the edges and this would actually help with heat dissipation. I think most wheels are. If you look at the one in this picture you will see what I'm talking about.

http://www.rixsaws.com/index.html

I think the motors would be plenty strong enough.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

dustyhat

I dont see why you cant, but i aint never really looked at cooks sharpeners, my wm sharpener has a little giant parts washer pump, it works pretty well . and the catch pan could be anything such as a old bread or cake pan.

petefrom bearswamp

I sure wish Piney was closer so I could visit and see all his mods first hand..
Maybe when Im in FL next winter
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

petefrom bearswamp

Oops it is 771 miles from my fl place
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Ox

Day trip just turned into a mini vacation!
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

pineywoods

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on May 04, 2016, 06:19:13 PM
I sure wish Piney was closer so I could visit and see all his mods first hand..
Maybe when Im in FL next winter
Hey, I think I'm somewhat between Fla and NY  ;D Just a slight detour westward and you could miss going through atlanta  ;D
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

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