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log scale vs. board feet you actually get

Started by road_monkey, March 05, 2016, 08:29:51 AM

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sandsawmill14

road monkey how long were those logs ???
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

road_monkey


Hackermatack

Just as a point of interest that really has nothing to do with the original question. A few log yards and mills around here buy softwood saw logs by weight. The predominate species are white spruce and balsam fir. Fir far outweighs spruce so if the load is all of one species they have the conversion for pounds/bd. ft. if it is a mixed load they take a guess at the % of each. When unloading the loader operator will put any reject logs back on the truck so they are subtracted from the gross wt when the truck is weighed on the way out. Most loggers & truckers seem to be happy with this method and most yards buying this way will stick scale on request so if a load comes in that is not fresh cut and has dried a little the logger is paid fairly. One big advantage for the truckers is that time spent in the yard is cut considerably and they can move more loads/day. Hard to say if this method is fair but it does treat all size logs equally.
Jonsered 2230, 590, 70E. Kioti DK 35 /w fransguard winch. Hudson Oscar 236

drobertson

Yea, I don't know, I was not trying to say anyone did any thing deceitful or dumb for sure, I just have never, never seen double the log scale when sawing to the number.  Those logs did look nice, and seemingly straight,,, either way, looks like a good whack,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

sandsawmill14

i suspect the talley is off on one side or the other as a 14" log 12' long has 75 bdft doyle in it and it would take 25-26 layers 42" wide to make roughly the 1100 or so bdft ( block talley) but i didnt see the logs or the lumber (good pics but you cant scale it ;D ) please dont think i am critical but it just dont look right from here  ;) :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

road_monkey

15 layers visible, 8 footers are under the tarp.  wagon is 6' inside the bunks. stacked as tight as I could get it,each layer contains roughly 72 sq ft. (6x12) so we are up to roughly 1080 feet not counting the half row, or the 8 footers. any thoughts?



 

sandsawmill14

rod monkey your math is right on the lumber  any chance you could have read the 10' mark instead of the 12' on the scale ??? if not you need to go to buying logs and letting that guy saw them ;D :D :D you will make some $$$ ;D
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Alligator

The reason: Doyle scale was not design to scale 10 or 15 perfect straight selected under 20" logs. It was designed to scale millions of  BDFT of logs in a fairly rapid fashion without a great amount of examination, as to straightness or quality. I scaled millions of BDFT of logs over 15 years. I had to segregate and saw individual loads from different tracts, and check them thru the mill. Doyle scale gives an average of about 40% overcut on a circle mill with a sash gang saw in widely mixed 8" to 36" logs. Even that goes down if you get into timber that has damage like hidden turpentine metal, logs from behind a firing range, wind / fire damage, insect damage. When you scale 10 to 20 loads 2k to 4k a load a day you can't inspect every logs quality. The Doyle scale compensates for that.

Just what I was taught. I was never designed for small amounts of hand picked logs.
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

SawyerBrown

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 05, 2016, 09:13:23 PM
Quote from: Dave Shepard on March 05, 2016, 08:31:55 PM
If you are hiring sawing by the board foot, you should be paying on yield, not on log scale. I've never heard of anyone charging for sawing based on log scale.

X2

Well, I do (International 1/4").  I started counting and measuring boards, but switched after about a year.

Here's my thought on that:
  - If the logs are good and solid (and straight!), I'm willing to provide an extra 10-15% product to save the hassle of counting boards at the end of the day
  - I can give a very accurate estimate, even over the phone, if the customer can give me the measurements
  - If the log is NOT solid, as happens so often with red oak around here for example, I get paid for sawing whether he gets that much lumber or not!  (That's probably the main reason).

Buying logs is a whole different animal, obviously ...
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

ladylake

Quote from: road_monkey on March 08, 2016, 07:21:52 AM
15 layers visible, 8 footers are under the tarp.  wagon is 6' inside the bunks. stacked as tight as I could get it,each layer contains roughly 72 sq ft. (6x12) so we are up to roughly 1080 feet not counting the half row, or the 8 footers. any thoughts?



 

The bf looks right, don't drape that tarp over the edge of the stack as it will mold with no air flow.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Chuck White

Quote from: road_monkey on March 08, 2016, 07:21:52 AM
15 layers visible, 8 footers are under the tarp.  wagon is 6' inside the bunks. stacked as tight as I could get it,each layer contains roughly 72 sq ft. (6x12) so we are up to roughly 1080 feet not counting the half row, or the 8 footers. any thoughts?

I don't think that 6' inside the bunks is correct, most running gear is set up at 4' between the bunks.

Most likely the distance between the inside edges of the tires is 6'.

Not wanting to step on toes, just sayin'.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

hacknchop

Please try to remember that log rules were set up long before portable bandsaws they provide an acurate standard of volume for which they were designed logs that is, not lumber but rather logs the mills needed. One also needs to take into consideration the amount of low grade or pallet lumber that mills sell at a price far below price per ft paid for logs.
Today the industry has changed mills now have a markets for by-products that did not exist then.
Often wrong never indoubt

road_monkey

Chuck white, the log bunks are 6' wide to the inside of them.  I know, i built it

Chuck White

OK, if I was wrong, so be it!

I just know the wagons that look like that in this area are as I described.

Yours must be around 9' from the outside of one tire to the outside of the other!

Most places would be illegal to run them on the public roads!

EDIT:  Going back through this post, the pic in post 48, I agree would likely be 6', but that pic looks different than the pic in post 55!

What I was referring to as "bunks" was just above the axle in post 55, where the green goes across what looks like 4'!

If I stepped on your toes, it wasn't intentional!    smiley_peace
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

GAB

Chuck I think you are talking about the bunks that keep the wagon rack from sliding off of the wagon frame and R M is talking about the bunks that hold the load from sliding off of the wagon bed or rack.
You may correct me if I's wrong again.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Chuck White

Yup, you're right Gerald!

I looked back through the posts and saw the 2 pics and realized we were talking about 2 different issues!

That's when I went back and edited my last post and even added  smiley_peace  the peace sign!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Do you want to know the truth about the origin of log rules, such as....that most use 1" and not thicker lumber, that Doyle had a pocket guide in 1825, that many use no taper logs, etc.?  Then go to
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr01.pdf

This publication also has some graphs to illustrate the rules.

Need a rule for thin saws?  Check out the International 1/8.

This publications has many rules expressed in a formula.

Appreciate that small logs were seldom sawn prior to WW II, so problems with scaling small logs were not an issue.

Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

sandsawmill14

and until people start waiting and cutting sawlogs instead of heavy pulp the problem with the scales will remain :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

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