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You guys having any luck with wenches?

Started by DanG, March 25, 2002, 07:02:04 PM

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DanG

AAahh, EErrr, winches, I mean.  After picking up a couple of loads of "free" logs, it has become obvious that I gotta have one. I've been perusing the northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company catalog, looking at the 5000# to 12000# models. My gut says the 9000# one is the best deal for the money, as it has the big motor, and plenty of cable capacity. My question is; will it hold up? I can envision dropping $800 for this thing, only to have it burn up in a month.  What are y'all using?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tom

I have an 8,000 lb warn and it's not enough.  I can roll logs with it but not pull them. When a log begins to dig in, the winch isn't strong enough and stalls.  I have it hooked to the two "D" class batteries on my Kodiak with welding cable so I don't think that power is a problem.

I would rather have hydraulics and have considered an 8 or 10 horse gas engine with a pump mounted on my truck or trailer.  It could be used if I fabricate a boom.  I even have thought about making a hydraulic winch for the boom using a  Hyd. motor from Northern.  

I doubt I will ever do it though.

woodman

   The only thing i had was a pv when i started but that was to much work, so i picked me up a used National crane in the middle of a GMC dump truck . no more lifting for me.
Jim Cripanuk

Frank_Pender

DanG, you might consider trying to find a wench (winch) from a military unit, like a duce or duce and a half.  I deisgned a unity for my tractor 3 point system and attatched a hydraulic motor to operate it with a valve installed onto the tractor.  I also designed a grapple attatched to the sides of the winch, tha t rises above the spool and opens large enough to grab a 3' log butt of a 120 tree and pull it to a landing.  but for your purpose I would consider a unit off of a duce six rig and use hydraulics to operate.  I have wound on my unit, only 150 of 5/8' line and the spool is about 1/3 loaded.  I have so much power that I could hook the frontend of the tractor to a standing tree and the winch to another and pull my 50 horse power John Deere into two parts.
Frank Pender

DanG

Thanks, guys.  I was afraid the electric jobbies weren't up to it. Frank, I don't know why I didn't think of that before. There is a big surplus place right up the road from me. My next alternative is to install a pto onto the "granny-trannie on my dually. I'd been thinking about a winch off of an old wrecker, but military would do just fine. I could either run a shaft, or a hydraulic pump from the pto. $800 would probably go a lot further at the surplus yard.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Frank_Pender

If you introduce hydraulics to your truck be sure and install a site for quick disconnnect in the the rear of the truck near the bumper and one on one side or the other of the truck.  You will be happy that you did so. 8) 8)
Frank Pender

RavioliKid

I was wondering what you were doing, asking for pick-up lines for wenches!

Turns out, you wanted a winch to do the picking-up!
 :D
RavioliKid

Kevin

G Dan, if you had a little Dan G snow down there now you wouldn`t have that problemo.
Sometimes it`s great to be a northern`r !
I don`t know how you guys can mill those mud puppies !  

Tom

Rav,
It's amazing what a misplaced "character" will do,   .....eh?  :D

DanG

Tom! You calling me a "misplaced character"?  I resemble that remark! :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

woodman

   Mabe down in that used big boys toy store down the street thay have a used crane, when you do not drag them there alot cleaner and easyer on the blads when cutting.
    ps do you look like that? :D :D ;D
Jim Cripanuk

DanG

I'd love to have a crane, or some other lifting device, but I'm trying to keep the overhead down. One of the primary principles of my business plan is to avoid financing anything. If and when the business earns itself a crane, then it will have one. For now, I'm determined to make do with what I can purchase for cash.

I'll be checking out the surplus yard later this week, and will also talk with a friend who has been operating tow trucks all his life. I have already talked with the folks from Mile Marker winches. They make a hydraulic winch that runs on the power steering pump on the truck. It's an interesting concept, and bears checking out further. This guy also sells Ramsey and Warn electric winches, and seems real high on the Mile Marker. I'll be checking in on some other forums to find some owner input. The Mile Marker 12000# model will run about $1250, including the kit to hook it up. I'm hoping to beat that at the surplus yard, however.

Yeah, Jim, I look like that. Well, at least I did, before I lost my looks. The beard is fuller, now, and has taken on an interesting patina, reminiscent of SNOW.  I must admit, I was surprised to find such a likeness on Jeff's collection of stock mug shots. The hat could be an actual photograph of my winter hat that I've had for 25 years.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."


Frank_Pender

Strong suggestion, Dan G., do not hook up to your power steering pump system.  I suggest strong that you keep your system as independent from the original system as possible.  Stay with the pto concept, that way you have an individual separate pump system and is more adaptable to other operations and less limiting in power also.  I have built a number of systems for my trucks over the years and have always been estatic with keeping all things independent of everything else.   I call it versitility in uses. 8) 8)
Frank Pender

DanG

 :D :D  Good job, Kevin. I'd switch to that, if I knew how.

Frank, I may have to go with the power steering setup initially, as a matter of time, and economics. The PTO is about $350, and lots of work to install. The PS kit is $70, and snaps on in minutes. Right now, as important as money is, time is even more precious to me. I can always add the PTO later, and run the same winch with it. The jury is still out, however, and I have some more options to check on.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

woodman

   Frank's wright i think you should go with the p.t.o. should be more power. Buy the way they sell hats on this forum when you need one . I'm a salt and pepper guy myself but more salt than pepper. 8) 8)
Jim Cripanuk

Don P

I've wondered about those PS pumps before, anybody know average PSI and GPM on those things? I was thinking of just belting up an extra pump on the front of the engine for a wood splitter at one time.

DanG

Don, from what I've been able to gather, the PS pumps will generate about 1500 psi.  The problem with using them to power hyd. cylinders is the reservoir capacity. It takes a buncha juice to fill up a splitter cylinder, so you have to rig up an auxiliary reservoir. You can get a pump from northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company for about a hundred bucks that will do a better job.

Word is, however, that they run a hydraulic motor just fine, since the fluid is constantly recirculating, and the system stays full all the time.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

L. Wakefield

   Speakin of wenches..uhh..winches- I was pricing one for my truck (3/4 ton Sierra) awhile ago. My mechanic said he could do a unit that would bolt into my hitch on the back and also put a similar hitch on the front. I like that cuz it means I could get out of sticky situations coming AND going (same way I tend to get into them..)- and also could take the thing off for security. But I'd just thought about pulling the truck, not wood. So how much wench/winch (we're a 2fer deal here, wench with winch) would it take to pull some various odd tasks? My husband had talked about cable length and size plus HP as criteria to consider. Can you give me some figures? I see 8k#, 9k#, and 12k# mentioned in the posts. What's the upper limit on electric units?     lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Tom

LW,

The larger winches were 8k lbs a few years ago but they have added a  little size since then.  The 8k will get your truck out of most every situation you could think of except for maybe lifting it bodily up into a tree likened to one of my favorite movies (The Gods Must be Crazy).

It is even large inough to pull and load most logs that you run into in an Urban invironvment, especially if you run your cable to a snatch block. (set of pulley's that encreases mechanical effort)  May be not enough for a day-in day-out professional.

You want to keep in mind that you could probably put a winch on the truck that could pull the truck in two so bigger isn't always better.  An enterprising individual, as you seem, will always come up with a way to allow the winch to work a little easier, like putting limbs under a log etc.

The more cable, the larger the diameter of the reel and the less advantage the winch will have.  You want to be able to reach what you are going to pull.  Usually a tree is within 40 or 50 feet.

The longer the cable the more strain it must take. A manufacturer will be able to suggest the size of cable to fit the size of winch.  The important thing about length is that you don't overload the reel.

A winch on the bumper, run through a swinging boom, attached to the back corner of the truck will lift a log to the back of the truck and allow it to be swung into the truck.  This is really handy for loading 50 gal. drums, engine blocks, dead animals, and other things that you would like to transport if you could get them in the truck.  If you do this, provide for a block under the truck so the springs on one corner don't take all the weight.

Rollers on or around the winch will allow the cable from the rear bumber to be pulled under the truck and attached to something in front of the truck like a tree.  This is handy if you have only one winch but could double your effort if you had a winch on the front as well.

I'd say an 8k winch would do pretty much what a slighter built wench would want. I can't think of much more a fella' would need to get through life but a good wench with a winch. :D

Frank_Pender

Tom, that is exactly what I thought when I built my first Duce and a 1/2 winch with a 3 point system for my first tractor, a Ford 1800 4 x 4 30 horse power.  I had my Wench back the tractor up to the edge of a side hill with a 75% grade.  I kicked the break lose on the winch and went down the hill to the first log to be yarded.  All was going great, until the darn log cought on a stump.  >:( I could not see it happen and hence the log was not moving.  I yelled and the Wench to "rev her up", the tractor,  still no movement.  >:(  I suddenly looked up to the winch and the Wench on the tractor. The front end of the tractor was about 3' off the ground and still climbing.  :o  The Wench finally got the tractor on the ground and yelled back at me, "Rev her up yourself."  :D Now of course, folks, since this is a family site I had to paraphrase a
bit.  I kicked the butt end of the log off the stump and the log moved gracefully up the hill.  I was on the tractor that time.  From that time on, my Wench set all of the chokers and ran the tractor and the winch.  ;)  She then got to do the yelling and say, " Rev him up." 8) 8)
Frank Pender

L. Wakefield

   Tom- thanks for the good word. Now of course I picture those fellas on Ducatis roaring into town and not only are they yelling 'show us your chainsaws!'- some of them with other tastes are also calling 'show us your winches!'. Regular trade show going on down there... (I love that movie too!)

lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

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